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Thread: Bike racks at strut attach points

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    skukum12's Avatar
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    Bike racks at strut attach points

    I figured I would start this thread separate so as to not hijack another.

    Cubs and 12s with bikes inside and a passenger don't mix. I saw the Murphy Radical at Osh a few years ago with bike racks under the wings. Anybody done this with a Cub/12? Living and flying in Alaska so not concerned too much about external load legality. I am more interested in aerodynamic loads and control issues.

    Or is the lumber rack the more viable option?
    "Always looking up"

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    skywagon8a's Avatar
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    supercub's Avatar
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    I have a book on Cubs, there's a picture in there of a J-3 with bikes attached to the struts. The caption says the owner got approval to carry them. Maybe someone else can share additional information.
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    skukum12's Avatar
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    Yup skywagon, that's it.

    supercub, in your book, are the bikes slung under the struts or the attach points?
    "Always looking up"

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    skywagon8a's Avatar
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    This reminds me of what I was told in Greenville Maine. They had lashed a bed spring on the float struts to take to a cabin somewhere. The exposed springs and wires created so much drag that it was very hazardous to fly it. I don't recall it there was an accident involved or not.

    What about those bicycle spokes? Perhaps some sort of wheel cover would be appropriate to reduce drag?
    N1PA
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    Quote Originally Posted by skywagon8a View Post
    This reminds me of what I was told in Greenville Maine. They had lashed a bed spring on the float struts to take to a cabin somewhere. The exposed springs and wires created so much drag that it was very hazardous to fly it. I don't recall it there was an accident involved or not.

    What about those bicycle spokes? Perhaps some sort of wheel cover would be appropriate to reduce drag?
    One bedspring or two, Ask MTV about his experience.
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    supercrow's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by skywagon8a View Post
    This reminds me of what I was told in Greenville Maine. They had lashed a bed spring on the float struts to take to a cabin somewhere. The exposed springs and wires created so much drag that it was very hazardous to fly it. I don't recall it there was an accident involved or not.

    What about those bicycle spokes? Perhaps some sort of wheel cover would be appropriate to reduce drag?
    I know a fellow who tried the bed spring on the spreader bars of 1320's. He put it right back on the water. Said is fell like it had no elevators. No accident in that case.
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    courierguy's Avatar
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    Drag city!

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    supercub's Avatar
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    Click image for larger version. 

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    Here's the pic, sorry it's on it's side, I'm not the best when it comes to these computers. The pic is from the book Piper Cubs by Peter M. Bowers
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    Hardtailjohn's Avatar
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    I remember in about 88, when I was working in Bellingham, WA, a Supercub came through with a bike strapped to the struts. Just so happened that the feds were doing a 135 inspection on us that day too.... they swarmed him when he shut it off at the fuel pumps, but he had paperwork and they looked like kids that had their ball taken away when they walked back.
    John

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    hotrod180's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hardtailjohn View Post
    .... they swarmed him when he shut it off at the fuel pumps, but he had paperwork and they looked like kids that had their ball taken away when they walked back.
    Don't you just love a story with a happy ending?
    Cessna Skywagon-- accept no substitute!

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    Quote Originally Posted by Hardtailjohn View Post
    I remember in about 88, when I was working in Bellingham, WA, a Supercub came through with a bike strapped to the struts. Just so happened that the feds were doing a 135 inspection on us that day too.... they swarmed him when he shut it off at the fuel pumps, but he had paperwork and they looked like kids that had their ball taken away when they walked back.
    John
    Obviously your 135 inspection went well cause they couldn't find anything to write up that day. Not even a lowly airplane pilot going somewhere for a bike ride.

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    Quote Originally Posted by CharlieN View Post
    Obviously your 135 inspection went well cause they couldn't find anything to write up that day. Not even a lowly airplane pilot going somewhere for a bike ride.
    Yeah, we were just fine. They were actually pretty easy to get along with, and for the years I was there, any gripes they had were mostly legit. I'm still personal friends with my old PMI from there.
    John
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hardtailjohn View Post
    Yeah, we were just fine. They were actually pretty easy to get along with, and for the years I was there, any gripes they had were mostly legit. I'm still personal friends with my old PMI from there.
    John
    Which is the way it should be, nice.
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    Cubus Maximus's Avatar
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    Lots of bikes and Cubs from these guys in Iceland:

    https://www.instagram.com/p/CAxQfx-BYno/
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    I intend to build in hardpoints for carrying things under the wing. Being my plane has a single strut I feel it best to mount to the spars.
    For my own bicycles I think I need to make the front bracket to hold the handlebars with the bike upright. This mostly due to the hydraulic discs which do not like being upside down with any motion involved.

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    skukum12's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cubus Maximus View Post
    Lots of bikes and Cubs from these guys in Iceland:

    https://www.instagram.com/p/CAxQfx-BYno/
    Nice way of doing things. Good to have the anti sway bar involved.
    "Always looking up"

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    Quote Originally Posted by Hardtailjohn View Post
    ....I'm still personal friends with my old PMI from there.
    Bill R?
    Sorry to say, the quality of inspectors outa SEA FSDO has gone way down in recent years.
    IMHO.
    Cessna Skywagon-- accept no substitute!
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    Hardtailjohn's Avatar
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    Yeah, it's Bill. I think the quality of PMI's has gone down everywhere. I attribute a lot of that to the fact that the older ones were also actual mechanics that had worked in the field. Seems most of the ones now have an A&P and not much to back it up with. I enjoyed the times I could call and get good advice or opinions.
    John

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    I think its nation wide. My PMI told me that if I had a customer that didnt want to fix their airplane and not give me the logs to call him and he would give them a stern talking to. Yeah like that would not cause me to lose every customer I have... he never worked for customers, only an Air Force Aero Club and Air Force time... never worked with actual paying customers who wanted everything for nothing. Finding balance with customers and complying with the regs is a dance that I find is hard to do with some of the cheap customers I have had.
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    So, does anyone know of any paperwork to carry bikes externally?

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    courierguy's Avatar
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    Speaking of bikes: I lost a crane float on a 3 hour drive to a job the other day (the steel attach transport bracket broke near a past weld, the metal appeared to have crystallized) and as the float costs $1500.00, I thought it'd be worth spending a day looking for it. I took the fat E bike also, as I wanted to access a site I had hit a rock with my tailwheel a few days prior. Airborne, all tires off the ground, on a close looksee, saw it too late and I was too low, and it pretty much took out my Matco tailwheel and tweaked some attach bolts. Not a "normal" impact, not up, but sideways, and as I had gotten 2600 hours on that tailwheel, rather then replace the parts (most of them) I bought new, also as a lesson to myself to look harder.

    I thought I could access the area on the fat bike pretty easily, not so, too tall of brush and too steep, the dirt road I thought I could use didn't go there. I wanted to find the rock (pretty sure it took a beating and would have been findable) and take it home for my wall of shame. Never did make it up there, I'll have to land to find that rock, hopefully after I land not during. But the bike was a real handy mode of transport all in all.
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    Quote Originally Posted by hotrod180 View Post
    Don't you just love a story with a happy ending?
    Who doesn't like a happy ending

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    Colorguns's Avatar
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    I saw this the other day as I was traveling. The tires were taken off the bike and tied to the struts one on each side same position. Talked to the guy about how it handled. Owner said that he didn’t see or feel any differently flying. Put the frame inside cabin with the back of rear seat out.
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    courierguy's Avatar
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    Did the pilot also say his uncovered gear (if he had any, don't know) didn't make any difference?! Looks doable for sure, just draggy, also for sure. But dealing with the chain and derailleur on that rear tire would be a PITA. Nothing I'd want to do multiple times a day anyway. I am of course predisposed to be picky about how others are "carrying", as my Montague is totally inside and is rideable in less then 3 minutes, even with the added complexities of it being an E bike. But those pics does make me think about hauling my E fattie occasionally as it is really my preferred major trail ride bike.

    Yesterdays ride, 22 miles in total, in sequence. I never did find my crane float, but had fun anyway. Way too windy to fly, makes bike riding more fun too.

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    courierguy's Avatar
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    However one manages it....carrying a bike with a plane is a good thing.
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    He says that the landing Gear is uncovered, the complete bike can fit inside the cabin with the tires off, the chain to the derailleur is easy to assemble with out much work, just slides right into place.
    But if he needs extra space for inside the plane he could always mount the tires on the struts. FOR the rest that seems to need to go inside, Ill talk to him about the possibility of going outside, somewhere.
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    I’m thinking about one of these. Might almost fit in the back. 37lbs. Not sure I want to haul a big lithium battery around.
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ID:	49193 Folded size 26x15.6x23.6 PS I know nothing about this bike. It was just a random google search.
    Last edited by MoJo; 06-02-2020 at 08:48 AM.

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    courierguy's Avatar
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    For a QUALITY small folding ebike, with Panasonic or Samsung cells and a proper BMS, and all other things E bike, Luna Cycle has been my go to place for years now. Cheap no name crap like the bike you show, is what can give E bikes a bad name! I wouldn't fly with that.....
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    Quote Originally Posted by courierguy View Post
    For a QUALITY small folding ebike, with Panasonic or Samsung cells and a proper BMS, and all other things E bike, Luna Cycle has been my go to place for years now. Cheap no name crap like the bike you show, is what can give E bikes a bad name! I wouldn't fly with that.....
    I’m going to edit my post with a disclaimer that this was just a random search for ebike and not an endorsement.
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    Quote Originally Posted by courierguy View Post
    For a QUALITY small folding ebike, with Panasonic or Samsung cells and a proper BMS, and all other things E bike, Luna Cycle has been my go to place for years now. Cheap no name crap like the bike you show, is what can give E bikes a bad name! I wouldn't fly with that.....
    I see the specs on the folding Luna are amazing, but $1800. is serious toy money.
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    Quote Originally Posted by courierguy View Post
    For a QUALITY small folding ebike, with Panasonic or Samsung cells and a proper BMS, and all other things E bike, Luna Cycle has been my go to place for years now. Cheap no name crap like the bike you show, is what can give E bikes a bad name! I wouldn't fly with that.....
    Let me be clear: the following comment is NOT aimed at CourierGuy. I understand for that someone like him – who is a serious rider, and uses his e-bike pretty much every day as a "business enablement tool" – spending $1800 (or even a whole lot more than that) could provide excellent ROI. Subtle nuances of performance, handling, etc. mean a lot to folks like CourierGuy. It's kind of like the guy who flies a turbine Beaver, hauling heavy loads into bush strips every day – the plane (e-bike) suits the mission well.

    But for many of us, $1800 is more money than we can remotely justify for the occasional use we would obtain. For my purposes, both the turbine Beaver and the $1800 Luna Cycle are significant overkill. I can't afford that Beaver, but I can afford a Rans S-6 (just bought one), and with that I can get to maybe 80-90% of the places I would ever want to go... And there's lots of folks flying back-country in similarly inexpensive, remarkably capable airplanes. These are planes that no "professional bush pilot" would ever consider functional for their purposes, yet they would readily point that novice backcountry pilot toward such planes...

    But with e-bikes, it's a LOT harder to find information that the aviation world makes easy... I wish is that the "bike purists" (translation – every bike-related publication, blog, etc. I've been able to find) would provide advice to us "novices" and "occasional riders" instead of throwing shade at anything "less" than their personal minimums... There are a lot of people enjoying riding their < $350 bikes 3-4 times a week for pleasure or exercise. And while I realize that it's a lot more fun to write about Ferraris than about Ford Fiestas, there are a LOT more people who "need" a Fiesta than a Ferrari...

    Again, not slamming CourierGuy, but it would be nice to be able to get help selecting a "Fiesta"-type e-bike...
    Jim Parker
    2007 Rans S-6ES
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    wireweinie's Avatar
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    So buy the cheaper bike and put EarthX batteries in it.

    Web
    Life's tough . . . wear a cup.

  34. #34
    JimParker256's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by wireweinie View Post
    So buy the cheaper bike and put EarthX batteries in it.

    Web
    IF that is the issue... but it could be a crappy frame, crappy components, etc. As CourierGuy points out, all bets are off when you order sight-unseen from China, Inc. I never wanted to buy a Yugo, nor do I want to buy a crappy bike. I just have no idea how to tell what is "good enough" for an occasional user like me.

    Apologies for the thread drift... I should take this to one of the e-bike forums. Just frustrated after spending an inordinate amount of time trying to find such information on the web. Every time I read one of CourierGuy's posts about how he uses his e-bike, it just re-kindles my desire to take one with me in my plane... But maybe it's just not meant to be.
    Jim Parker
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  35. #35
    cubflier's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by wireweinie View Post
    So buy the cheaper bike and put EarthX batteries in it.

    Web
    It would take $1500 worth of EarthX batteries to power that cheap bike.

    Jerry
    If it looks smooth...it might be

    If it looks rough...it is!!
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    courierguy's Avatar
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    My first E bike was a 700 buck small folder, that I rapidly outgrew, became dissatisfied with. Too slow, too short of range, no climbing power, lousy brakes, just barely fun enough to make me realize a higher dollar one was worth pursuing.

  37. #37
    L18C-95's Avatar
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    This folder has a good reputation, wonder how easily it might or might not fit in the baggage area of a Super Cub


    https://airnimal.co


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  38. #38
    cubflier's Avatar
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    This is a method that I explored. It went on the struts fairly easy but for the life of me I could not seem to get it back off the struts without a lot of wondering how I got it there in the first place. I never ended up flying with it in this configuration but I think it's doable if a person could get the removal process down with some practice.

    Just wondering if anyone else done this mounting method with more success.

    Jerry

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    Last edited by cubflier; 06-02-2020 at 01:17 PM.
    If it looks smooth...it might be

    If it looks rough...it is!!
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  39. #39
    skywagon8a's Avatar
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    cubflier's picture gives me an idea. How about two hook type brackets clamped under the front lift strut equidistant on either side of the jury struts. These to hang the handle bars on. Then a single bracket with a secure clamp/strap at the rear jury strut attach location. Just hang the handle bars on the front hooks. Swing the bike up to latch onto the rear bracket. Sounds easy for one person with the wheels being held straight for minimum drag. The two handle bar brackets would hold the bike stable to the strut. The jury struts would support the entire weight. How much does a bicycle weigh? My guess is not a lot.
    N1PA
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  40. #40

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    Quote Originally Posted by skywagon8a View Post
    How much does a bicycle weigh? My guess is not a lot.
    From 18 to 32Lbs with variation each way from that.

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