Page 2 of 2 FirstFirst 12
Results 41 to 80 of 80

Thread: Bearhawk Model 5

  1. #41
    cubdriver2's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2003
    Location
    upstate NY
    Posts
    11,469
    Post Thanks / Like
    Quote Originally Posted by Farmboy View Post
    Don’t forget the floats when Dave builds yours Tyson. I want to see an Amphib Five sitting next to his creek while he cooks up some steak on the fire pit.


    Sent from my iPhone using SuperCub.Org
    Yup

    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	17153.jpeg 
Views:	68 
Size:	119.0 KB 
ID:	64201

    Glenn
    "Optimism is going after Moby Dick in a rowboat and taking the tartar sauce with you!"
    Likes kestrel liked this post

  2. #42
    kestrel's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2013
    Location
    Southern NH
    Posts
    333
    Post Thanks / Like
    Quote Originally Posted by Farmboy View Post
    Donít forget the floats when Dave builds yours Tyson. I want to see an Amphib Five sitting next to his creek while he cooks up some steak on the fire pit.

    I'm terrified of what the insurance on that would be!
    --
    Bearhawk, RV-4
    Likes RaisedByWolves liked this post

  3. #43
    Farmboy's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2016
    Location
    Glens Falls, NY & Middlebury, VT
    Posts
    3,015
    Post Thanks / Like
    Quote Originally Posted by kestrel View Post
    I'm terrified of what the insurance on that would be!
    No worries. Itís only once a year. Let Emilie pay it.


    Transmitted from my FlightPhone on fingersÖ
    Likes kestrel liked this post

  4. #44
    RaisedByWolves's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2005
    Posts
    4,890
    Post Thanks / Like
    Quote Originally Posted by kestrel View Post
    I'm terrified of what the insurance on that would be!
    Itís disgusting, but float flying is awesome, you can get fuel easily, and put it in the hangar at the end of the day. Donít have to worry about storms. You only live once.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
    Likes kestrel liked this post

  5. #45
    Cardiff Kook's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2020
    Location
    Sisters, OR
    Posts
    379
    Post Thanks / Like
    How much does a plane like this list for? Someome posted an expired barnstormers link but cant seem to figure out what it listed for.

  6. #46
    skywagon8a's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2008
    Location
    SE Mass
    Posts
    12,679
    Post Thanks / Like
    Quote Originally Posted by Cardiff Kook View Post
    How much does a plane like this list for? Someome posted an expired barnstormers link but cant seem to figure out what it listed for.
    Here's a link where a price of $175k is mentioned: https://bearhawkforums.com/forum/cla...e-6-seat-o-540
    N1PA

  7. #47
    Utah-Jay's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2020
    Location
    Heber City, UT
    Posts
    461
    Post Thanks / Like
    Is that a Model 5?

  8. #48
    Farmboy's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2016
    Location
    Glens Falls, NY & Middlebury, VT
    Posts
    3,015
    Post Thanks / Like
    I donít know about the old listing above, but the Model 5 built and delivered recently was listed and sold close to $325k


    Sent from my iPhone using SuperCub.Org

  9. #49
    Cardiff Kook's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2020
    Location
    Sisters, OR
    Posts
    379
    Post Thanks / Like
    That makes more sense.

  10. #50
    skywagon8a's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2008
    Location
    SE Mass
    Posts
    12,679
    Post Thanks / Like
    Quote Originally Posted by Farmboy View Post
    I don’t know about the old listing above, but the Model 5 built and delivered recently was listed and sold close to $325k
    And it isn't even certificated with a type certificate.
    N1PA

  11. #51
    Utah-Jay's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2020
    Location
    Heber City, UT
    Posts
    461
    Post Thanks / Like
    Quote Originally Posted by skywagon8a View Post
    And it isn't even certificated with a type certificate.
    Makes it better

    EAB rocks
    Bearhawk Companion QB Builder
    Revo Sunglasses Ambassador
    https://www.instagram.com/jay_townsend_utah/
    https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCQ0...tBJLdV8HB_jSIA
    Likes 40m, kestrel liked this post

  12. #52
    skywagon8a's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2008
    Location
    SE Mass
    Posts
    12,679
    Post Thanks / Like
    Quote Originally Posted by Utah-Jay View Post
    Makes it better

    EAB rocks
    In many cases EAB is better, but not all. Some workmanship sucks. My point on the $325k price for this particular one is, that price does not include that one airplane's portion of the cost of certification if it had been certificated. Imagine what the price would have been had it been type certificated? This has far exceeded hobby prices for the common man.
    N1PA

  13. #53
    Utah-Jay's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2020
    Location
    Heber City, UT
    Posts
    461
    Post Thanks / Like
    Quote Originally Posted by skywagon8a View Post
    In many cases EAB is better, but not all. Some workmanship sucks. My point on the $325k price for this particular one is, that price does not include that one airplane's portion of the cost of certification if it had been certificated. Imagine what the price would have been had it been type certificated? This has far exceeded hobby prices for the common man.
    No doubt prices are pretty high at this time. The Model 5 is a big plane, and the supply is nearly non-existent. I suppose supply and demand. Hard to beat the top and bottom ends of the BH envelope.

  14. #54
    skywagon8a's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2008
    Location
    SE Mass
    Posts
    12,679
    Post Thanks / Like
    Quote Originally Posted by Utah-Jay View Post
    No doubt prices are pretty high at this time. The Model 5 is a big plane, and the supply is nearly non-existent. I suppose supply and demand. Hard to beat the top and bottom ends of the BH envelope.
    One of these days the FAA is going to crack down on the commercial building for profit of the planes in the EAB category. Oh, I know this has been going on for a long time.
    N1PA
    Likes mixer liked this post

  15. #55
    frequent_flyer's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2021
    Location
    Arizona, USA
    Posts
    1,164
    Post Thanks / Like
    Quote Originally Posted by skywagon8a View Post
    One of these days the FAA is going to crack down on the commercial building for profit of the planes in the EAB category. Oh, I know this has been going on for a long time.
    What specific activity would they want to crack down on? Let's say I buy and build a kit and I enjoy doing it. I fly off the phase 1 hours and sell it. I use the money to buy another kit and there is some left over. How many times can I do this before I should be stopped by FAA?

    Is that scenario significantly different from my buying a kit and having it delivered to someone who builds it for me? Money changes hands at a different time and the chain of ownership is different but, in both cases, a person ends up paying for, owning, and flying, an EAB aircraft that they did not build.
    Likes 40m liked this post

  16. #56
    skywagon8a's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2008
    Location
    SE Mass
    Posts
    12,679
    Post Thanks / Like
    Quote Originally Posted by frequent_flyer View Post
    What specific activity would they want to crack down on? Let's say I buy and build a kit and I enjoy doing it. I fly off the phase 1 hours and sell it. I use the money to buy another kit and there is some left over. How many times can I do this before I should be stopped by FAA?

    Is that scenario significantly different from my buying a kit and having it delivered to someone who builds it for me? Money changes hands at a different time and the chain of ownership is different but, in both cases, a person ends up paying for, owning, and flying, an EAB aircraft that they did not build.
    Your first example is the intent of the EAB program. How many times you do it is irrelevant. The second is not, as you are not the builder. Your only participation is supplying the money. The intent of EAB is for the building of an aircraft for recreational and educational purposes. Not a commercial building program in an effort to bypass the certification regulations. The EAA has been addressing this for the lifetime of the organization. That is not to say there are not subcategories of the experimental certificate which are available for this purpose, there are. But they have more operational restrictions. In those cases if you are happy with and can live within those restrictions ... then go for it.

    Look up the subcategories of the Experimental category. There is even an "other".
    N1PA

  17. #57
    sub3's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2014
    Location
    KANE
    Posts
    165
    Post Thanks / Like
    Has anyone done a side by side real-life comparison to the 6-passenger Maule? Looking at the website specs, the Bearhawk will outperform the maule (faster in cruise, slower stall, higher GW) In my experience, the Maule is a very capable airplane in the right hands. Would be interested in some side by side video to see the Bearhawk in action


    After owning two certified cubs, venturing into EAB has been a great learning experience. I plan to support the EAA moving forward to preserve this for other builders.. BTW I live in the city and my neighbors think I'm crazy, I've officially become "that guy" who's building an airplane in his garage..
    Likes Utah-Jay, skywagon8a, Farmboy liked this post

  18. #58
    frequent_flyer's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2021
    Location
    Arizona, USA
    Posts
    1,164
    Post Thanks / Like
    Quote Originally Posted by skywagon8a View Post
    Your first example is the intent of the EAB program. How many times you do it is irrelevant. The second is not, as you are not the builder. Your only participation is supplying the money.
    The buyer of an EAB that I build in scenario one has no participation except supplying the money. The only distinction between the two cases that I can see is when the non-builder puts up the money. What am I missing?

  19. #59
    Utah-Jay's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2020
    Location
    Heber City, UT
    Posts
    461
    Post Thanks / Like
    Obviously if a person buys an EAB, they lose some of the perks of building, they can’t do the condition inspection etc.

    I am building, every single thing has been done by my hands. There are some very questionable programs going on that make me SMH

  20. #60
    skywagon8a's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2008
    Location
    SE Mass
    Posts
    12,679
    Post Thanks / Like
    Quote Originally Posted by frequent_flyer View Post
    The buyer of an EAB that I build in scenario one has no participation except supplying the money. The only distinction between the two cases that I can see is when the non-builder puts up the money. What am I missing?
    You are missing ... who actually does the building? You can build it yourself, but you are not supposed to pay someone else to do it for you. That defeats the intent of the EAB program.
    N1PA
    Likes mixer, sub3 liked this post

  21. #61
    frequent_flyer's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2021
    Location
    Arizona, USA
    Posts
    1,164
    Post Thanks / Like
    Quote Originally Posted by skywagon8a View Post
    You are missing ... who actually does the building? You can build it yourself, but you are not supposed to pay someone else to do it for you. That defeats the intent of the EAB program.
    But if I buy an EAB that someone else built (scenario one) I did no building and I did, in effect, pay for someone else to build it. Your distinction would prevent the sale of EAB aircraft.

    Sure, I cannot claim to be the builder if I did not perform 51% of the tasks but that does not prevent me from being the owner.

  22. #62
    skywagon8a's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2008
    Location
    SE Mass
    Posts
    12,679
    Post Thanks / Like
    Your scenario #1
    Quote Originally Posted by frequent_flyer View Post
    What specific activity would they want to crack down on? Let's say I buy and build a kit and I enjoy doing it. I fly off the phase 1 hours and sell it. I use the money to buy another kit and there is some left over. How many times can I do this before I should be stopped by FAA?
    Quote Originally Posted by frequent_flyer View Post
    But if I buy an EAB that someone else built (scenario one) I did no building and I did, in effect, pay for someone else to build it. Your distinction would prevent the sale of EAB aircraft.

    Sure, I cannot claim to be the builder if I did not perform 51% of the tasks but that does not prevent me from being the owner.
    In your scenario #1, you stated that you, frequent_flyer did the building. Since you are talking about a kit, you are required to perform 51% or more of the actual building.
    N1PA

  23. #63
    Cardiff Kook's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2020
    Location
    Sisters, OR
    Posts
    379
    Post Thanks / Like
    Quote Originally Posted by frequent_flyer View Post
    But if I buy an EAB that someone else built (scenario one) I did no building and I did, in effect, pay for someone else to build it. Your distinction would prevent the sale of EAB aircraft.

    Sure, I cannot claim to be the builder if I did not perform 51% of the tasks but that does not prevent me from being the owner.
    I think what he is saying is the original intent of the law was not to enable for profit activities- such as building a plane and fairly quickly turning around and selling it. By law- the two examples are identical- which is why it is being done.

    I think what he is saying is eventually the FAA may take issue with this as they did not anticipate it when original law was written. They may close what they see as a loophole.



    But I dont know. I dont have a dog in the fight either way.
    Likes JeffP, skywagon8a liked this post

  24. #64
    Marty57's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2005
    Location
    Nipomo, Ca
    Posts
    1,530
    Post Thanks / Like
    Quote Originally Posted by Cardiff Kook View Post
    I think what he is saying is the original intent of the law was not to enable for profit activities- such as building a plane and fairly quickly turning around and selling it. By law- the two examples are identical- which is why it is being done.

    I think what he is saying is eventually the FAA may take issue with this as they did not anticipate it when original law was written. They may close what they see as a loophole.
    If a shop has three or four guys building two or three identical kits a year; they are manufacturing said kit. They sell it as an EAB but likely had a buyer before the build started. That's something the FAA is likely to frown upon. A one man shop building a kit over a two or three year period and than selling it after completion is likely seen very different in the eyes of the FAA. Some guys like to build and aren't interested necessarily in owning and flying the plane. The Bally Bomber is an example of the joy of the build. Sure, it's semantics but if the FAA decides to declare an EAB builder a manufacturer, good luck proving otherwise. Remember, with the FAA, you have to prove you were not in the wrong in most cases. That could get very expensive. Let's hope that slippery slope doesn't come crashing down.
    Marty57
    N367PS
    Psalm 36:7 "High and low among men find refuge in the shadow of His wing"
    www.marty2plus2.com
    Likes skywagon8a liked this post

  25. #65
    hotrod180's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2008
    Location
    Port Townsend, WA
    Posts
    4,040
    Post Thanks / Like
    I think the "hired gun" builders fill a need.
    Lots of people want RV's, for example, yet don't have the skills and/or time to build one.
    So "Joe Thumbs" hires someone who's built a bunch of them to build it for him,
    or buy one from the same guy after he's built it.
    GA benefits by having (hopefully) a safer better airplane than if Joe built it himself.
    My problem is when Joe applies for and gets the repairmen's certificate.
    I think this happens a lot, esp with the "builder assist" programs that some of the kit mfr's offer.
    Cessna Skywagon-- accept no substitute!
    Likes skywagon8a liked this post

  26. #66
    BC12D-4-85's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2016
    Location
    Fairbanks, AK.
    Posts
    4,204
    Post Thanks / Like
    How far down the chain of ownership does liability travel after a build? Don't know.

    Gary

  27. #67
    skywagon8a's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2008
    Location
    SE Mass
    Posts
    12,679
    Post Thanks / Like
    Quote Originally Posted by BC12D-4-85 View Post
    How far down the chain of ownership does liability travel after a build? Don't know.

    Gary
    Depends on the initiative of the lawyer and the depths of the pockets.
    N1PA
    Thanks BC12D-4-85 thanked for this post
    Likes RedOwlAirfield liked this post

  28. #68
    Farmboy's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2016
    Location
    Glens Falls, NY & Middlebury, VT
    Posts
    3,015
    Post Thanks / Like
    If the FAA is ever going pursue this gray area as it has been described, the first place they will have to go is the RV community, as there are literally companies that are building, and/or selling "build assist programs" to thousands of new RV owners. I'm all about Experimental, but I will say that 51% on paper is and 51% in person is subjectively very different. Defining what percentage of each portion covers that area of the build is the key to these companies success.

    I'm not throwing anyone under the bus but I built a brand new modern cub in 5.5 days, signed off and ready to fly. And those days were 7-3, with one hour lunches. Builder Assist programs are awesome for certain individuals.

    pb
    Thanks Bowie thanked for this post
    Likes kestrel liked this post

  29. #69
    Cardiff Kook's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2020
    Location
    Sisters, OR
    Posts
    379
    Post Thanks / Like
    Here is a question: how hard is the bearhawk 5 kit (or other bearhawk kits) to build compared to other well known kits- like the carbon cub?

    I have been watching the Osborn videos of their 5 build, and I gotta say, it don't look easy (yes, I realized it was difficult going in- but wow- hats off to the builders.) Wondering how kit specific that is.

  30. #70

    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    Location
    Michigan
    Posts
    184
    Post Thanks / Like
    I know the builder of that 5. It was his kit that he built with the purpose of recreation and education. He met the FAA's parameters without question. Period. Even if you are bothered by it for some reason he still met the parameters.

    He is good at it and it was I think his 5th or 6th Bearhawk product....a Modle A and Patrol from plans, an LSA kit, rebuilt another LSA that had an accident, and the prototype Five. This was his second Five.

    There are still a few retired professional fabricators out there. They are very good fast aircraft builders....in fact they are the best EAB builders that exist. Better than mechanics, even dentist. Way better that pilots who build.

    This article was from 2018...he was at three then.
    https://www.kitplanes.com/the-three-bearhawks/
    Last edited by bcone1381; 01-04-2023 at 09:47 PM. Reason: added link

  31. #71
    RaisedByWolves's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2005
    Posts
    4,890
    Post Thanks / Like
    Quote Originally Posted by Cardiff Kook View Post
    Here is a question: how hard is the bearhawk 5 kit (or other bearhawk kits) to build compared to other well known kits- like the carbon cub?

    I have been watching the Osborn videos of their 5 build, and I gotta say, it don't look easy (yes, I realized it was difficult going in- but wow- hats off to the builders.) Wondering how kit specific that is.
    Seems like there isnít much of a build manual for the bearhawk. Pretty much has the attitude of your the builder you can build it how youíd like.

    The manuals Iíve seen for the carbon cub are very clear in what goes where, and every part is included. I have heard they talk to you when you call with a question. Probably why the carbon cubs are a looooot more money.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
    Likes Farmboy liked this post

  32. #72
    Bearhawk Builder's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2012
    Location
    In the woods
    Posts
    918
    Post Thanks / Like
    Quote Originally Posted by Cardiff Kook View Post
    Here is a question: how hard is the bearhawk 5 kit (or other bearhawk kits) to build compared to other well known kits- like the carbon cub?

    I have been watching the Osborn videos of their 5 build, and I gotta say, it don't look easy (yes, I realized it was difficult going in- but wow- hats off to the builders.) Wondering how kit specific that is.
    Everything specific to the Bearhawk is included in the kit, things that are general aircraft parts or hardware are not. The plans are very good and require a little studying to figure out how most things are done. For example the plans may call out AN426-3 rivets for the wings skin but not the length. You have to figure out where a 3.5 vs a 4 needs to be installed. Vans will tell you exactly where one vs the other is used or have a bag marked 'wing skin rivets'. With a Bearhawk you have to determine that. My personal feeling is you should know that anyway, or know how to find out. There is more room for different ways of accomplishing things with the kit versus other kits I'm familiar with. The boot cowl, engine cowl, doors, side windows for example are part of the kit but in raw material cut roughly to size, not match drilled or pre punched like some kits. Both good and bad I guess. It is more work requiring more builder input but also allows for more personal taste without wasting kit supplied material. With good build practices and attention to detail you can build a Bearhawk to a very high level of fit and finish, although this does not come as easily as some of the other kits. We have worked for years to build a relationship with outside vendors to provide Bearhawk specific finish parts. Daniel at Sport Aircraft Seats can provide an interior for all the Bearhawk models now. Clint at Vetterman has his excellent exhaust systems available for all the models. Scott at Hooker does a nice job with seat harnesses. I'm working with Amsafe for an airbag system requested for a customer. Catto, Lycoming, Hartzell, Airframes Alaska, Carbon Concepts have Bearhawk specific options. Wicks Aircraft offers a complete hardware kit for the Bearhawk line. So everything is available if not included in the kit. Some of the components are well ahead of other kits. The wings for example come at an advanced stage needing only the internal controls fitted and the last skins riveted down. Already drilled, dimpled, internally primed and ready to finish. The welded tanks are done, ready for install.
    I recently finished a build manual that will be included in new kits, hopefully this will help with one way of doing things. There are other manuals available from other builders as well as the youtubers. The build community is strong with an active chat group. Mark Goldberg is great at answering questions with a phone call and I pick up the slack for tech questions.
    So the Bearhawk is a good kit and getting better all the time, well supported although not as 'mature' as some others that have invested in advanced machining, matched hole tech, customer service departments and extensive marketing etc. The kit pricing reflects this and I think is a great value in the market.
    Likes Utah-Jay, kestrel, Riverking liked this post

  33. #73
    Bearhawk Builder's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2012
    Location
    In the woods
    Posts
    918
    Post Thanks / Like
    And if Peter can do it, how hard can it be
    Likes Utah-Jay, kestrel, Farmboy, Bowie liked this post

  34. #74
    Farmboy's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2016
    Location
    Glens Falls, NY & Middlebury, VT
    Posts
    3,015
    Post Thanks / Like
    Quote Originally Posted by Bearhawk Builder View Post
    And if Peter can do it, how hard can it be
    FACTS Dave! hahahahaha.

    Just because I don't like to sugar coat things much, let me just add - I'm glad Dave is a friend, nearby, and has built what, 4 Bearhawks plus a cub?

    *When building you can choose to stick build a plane from plans (which is what Bob Barrows had intended from the start). Those that do have much more experience, time, and passion than I do.
    *In my opinion, in today's kit offerings, you can buy a factory assisted build, an erector set kit, a quick build kit, or a raw materials kit. Using the titles I have given them you can basically assume the different levels of completeness and build support provided in hard copy (not referring to phone support).

    My personal opinion is that for ship-to-your-home production kits, you have ones such as Cubcrafters that set the standard for completeness. All parts are produced. All manuals are provided. All hardware is not only provided, but is individually wrapped and labeled. Then you have kits that are like RV's, where everything is stamped and cut, and you rivet your life away building it. But, awesome manuals and support.

    Then you have more the normal kits (in my perspective) where you have parts, pieces and manuals, but you still buy interior, hardware, fabric and such to make it all fly.

    The Bearhawk is without doubt an outgrowth of the plans-built phase. You get a completely (and well done) welded fuselage, fully primed and ready for assembly. Complete tail surfaces are welded and ready. You get wings (all aluminum) that are not only assembled, but is completely flush riveted across the top, and the bottom skin is partially riveted so you can open it up, string your aileron cable and lights, and then close up just the bottom skin.
    Flaps and ailerons are fully assembled and waiting for you to fabric cover.

    And like other kits, you can purchase your hardware and other items (wheels, tires, brakes, engine, prop) from the company (at a good price) or you can source your own.

    The shortcoming is that until Dave's manuals come into play, there is essentially no build manual. Yes, you have fabrication plans, but for someone that hasn't assembled one, there is no obvious roadmap to start and work down the path. Now I knew before I purchased a kit, and I am confident of my abilities to succeed in it, but even so there are days of frustration (like with any I suppose) that I rely heavily on Dave or others to answer build questions that would be in an assembly manual. If you've build before, I expect it's a fairly easy task.

    All said, I still am sure I've made the right choice because of my flying experience in the Model 5, the Patrol, and a little bit in the LSA. The Patrol is absolutely the best fit for my mission and the day will come where I'll be flying the one I've built.

    pb

    Edit : As Tom mentioned, it provides a ton of opportunity for creativity on the build side, which for me is great, for others, not so much.

  35. #75
    Bearhawk Builder's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2012
    Location
    In the woods
    Posts
    918
    Post Thanks / Like
    Quote Originally Posted by Bearhawk Builder View Post
    And if Peter can do it, how hard can it be
    By the way Peter is doing a beautiful job on his Patrol. Quite a few custom mods that will make it unique and suit his mission. And he'll have a great panel!

  36. #76
    kestrel's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2013
    Location
    Southern NH
    Posts
    333
    Post Thanks / Like
    Quote Originally Posted by Bearhawk Builder View Post
    By the way Peter is doing a beautiful job on his Patrol. Quite a few custom mods that will make it unique and suit his mission. And he'll have a great panel!
    People are going to want to copy that panel layout...
    --
    Bearhawk, RV-4

  37. #77
    cubdriver2's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2003
    Location
    upstate NY
    Posts
    11,469
    Post Thanks / Like
    Quote Originally Posted by Bearhawk Builder View Post
    By the way Peter is doing a beautiful job on his Patrol. Quite a few custom mods that will make it unique and suit his mission. And he'll have a great panel!
    Great coordination, guick backpedaling.

    Glenn
    "Optimism is going after Moby Dick in a rowboat and taking the tartar sauce with you!"

  38. #78
    40m's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2013
    Location
    Shoreham, VT
    Posts
    596
    Post Thanks / Like
    Quote Originally Posted by Farmboy View Post
    FACTS Dave! hahahahaha.

    Just because I don't like to sugar coat things much, let me just add - I'm glad Dave is a friend, nearby, and has built what, 4 Bearhawks plus a cub?

    *When building you can choose to stick build a plane from plans (which is what Bob Barrows had intended from the start). Those that do have much more experience, time, and passion than I do.
    *In my opinion, in today's kit offerings, you can buy a factory assisted build, an erector set kit, a quick build kit, or a raw materials kit. Using the titles I have given them you can basically assume the different levels of completeness and build support provided in hard copy (not referring to phone support).

    My personal opinion is that for ship-to-your-home production kits, you have ones such as Cubcrafters that set the standard for completeness. All parts are produced. All manuals are provided. All hardware is not only provided, but is individually wrapped and labeled. Then you have kits that are like RV's, where everything is stamped and cut, and you rivet your life away building it. But, awesome manuals and support.

    Then you have more the normal kits (in my perspective) where you have parts, pieces and manuals, but you still buy interior, hardware, fabric and such to make it all fly.

    The Bearhawk is without doubt an outgrowth of the plans-built phase. You get a completely (and well done) welded fuselage, fully primed and ready for assembly. Complete tail surfaces are welded and ready. You get wings (all aluminum) that are not only assembled, but is completely flush riveted across the top, and the bottom skin is partially riveted so you can open it up, string your aileron cable and lights, and then close up just the bottom skin.
    Flaps and ailerons are fully assembled and waiting for you to fabric cover.

    And like other kits, you can purchase your hardware and other items (wheels, tires, brakes, engine, prop) from the company (at a good price) or you can source your own.

    The shortcoming is that until Dave's manuals come into play, there is essentially no build manual. Yes, you have fabrication plans, but for someone that hasn't assembled one, there is no obvious roadmap to start and work down the path. Now I knew before I purchased a kit, and I am confident of my abilities to succeed in it, but even so there are days of frustration (like with any I suppose) that I rely heavily on Dave or others to answer build questions that would be in an assembly manual. If you've build before, I expect it's a fairly easy task.

    All said, I still am sure I've made the right choice because of my flying experience in the Model 5, the Patrol, and a little bit in the LSA. The Patrol is absolutely the best fit for my mission and the day will come where I'll be flying the one I've built.

    pb

    Edit : As Tom mentioned, it provides a ton of opportunity for creativity on the build side, which for me is great, for others, not so much.
    Chop Chop

    From Genesis: "And God promised men that good and obedient wives would be
    found in all corners of the earth."

    Then he made the earth round... and He laughed and laughed and laughed!
    Likes RaisedByWolves liked this post

  39. #79
    Utah-Jay's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2020
    Location
    Heber City, UT
    Posts
    461
    Post Thanks / Like
    Like @Farmboy I knew what I was getting into but my BH Companion, it is likely more work than some of the other kits Pete mentioned, but hard to beat the performance of a BH for backcountry flying.

    I never built anything before in my life, takes some patience and some head scratching, but in the end all planes fly by the same principles so there are no secrets…. Only how to complete the task of the day

    I have kept a pretty detailed build log on both the BH forum and the EAA builders log if you want to have a look

  40. #80
    RaisedByWolves's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2005
    Posts
    4,890
    Post Thanks / Like
    Quote Originally Posted by 40m View Post
    Chop Chop
    Iím glad someone is keeping him motivated


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Similar Threads

  1. PA-18 vs Bearhawk Vid
    By Penguin in forum Video Vault
    Replies: 7
    Last Post: 08-28-2020, 10:55 PM
  2. Replies: 4
    Last Post: 03-11-2006, 10:13 PM

Bookmarks

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •