• If You Are Having Trouble Logging In with Your Old Username and Password, Please use this Forgot Your Password link to get re-established.
  • Hey! Be sure to login or register!

Seat restraints .....again

Mr. Ed

MEMBER
PNW
I want 5 point restraints with inertial reel shoulder straps and the cam lock (rotary) buckle for my experimental cub build. I’m having a tough time finding anything. I’ve done a search on this site and an internet search. CC sells them but not with the cam lock buckle. Crow doesn’t do inertial reel and says their material is too thick to go into an inertial reel. AmSafe has not responded to numerous inquiries and the phone tree is a dead end. I’ve looked at racing restraint web sites and found interesting restraints but no information on dimensions (belt lengths). I’ve looked at eBay for Pacific Scientific but most listings are for very well worn items that I’m not willing to take a chance on.

I’m trying to finish off the fuselage and need to have inertial reel dimensions and bolt patterns so I can weld in proper mounting brackets.

Would any of you have a suggested source?

Thanks for any info you can pass on.

Mr. Ed
 
Race cars don't use inertial reel restraints as far as I know. Too much slop/give/slack.

Helicopters harness's on the other hand seem to be the closest that use an inertia reel as I recall, and Schroth makes some for them.
https://www.schroth.com/en/segments/aviation/products/rotorcraft.html
Both the 1-09 with the locking reel and the 1-07 may be options.

pb

Edit - Schroth also has an configurator to build to suit for your setup, but you'd have to call them about incorporating a reel into it.
Aviation Restraint Configurator
 
Schroth are really nice harnesses, had them in a off road vehicle back in the day, but they are $, you also get what you pay for.

I was pointing towards Summit as a starting point for manfactures , then search from there.
 
If you dig deep enough you'll find some companies have gone to lengths to offer systems of value.

Two cool things I think that Schroth offers, probably for the offshore drilling market, is these :

Screen Shot 2020-04-29 at 5.53.03 PM.png

Screen Shot 2020-04-29 at 5.52.52 PM.png
 

Attachments

  • Screen Shot 2020-04-29 at 5.53.03 PM.png
    Screen Shot 2020-04-29 at 5.53.03 PM.png
    248.9 KB · Views: 244
  • Screen Shot 2020-04-29 at 5.52.52 PM.png
    Screen Shot 2020-04-29 at 5.52.52 PM.png
    366.5 KB · Views: 301
If you go back to my soapbox moment thread about restraints, you'll find info on https://www.safecraftracing.com which is arguably the best harness in automotive racing. Custom built to your lengths/specs. And he comes from an aviation family. But as Kahles said, it will cost you. And, no inertia restraints.

pb
 
Tried Summit Racing. They had one harness that fit the bill except the webbing was too short. Safe craft Racing, as mentioned had no inertial reel option.

Schroth looks like what I’m interested in. I filled out the sheet for a quote and hope they are a bit more responsive than others. Maybe everybody is hunkered down in self isolation.

Thanks for the help folks!
 
Please share what information they provide, assuming they get back to you.

Thanks,
pb
 
The company I bought my stuff from is/was Aviation Safety Products. Blairsville Ga.

I bought just the parts then sewed my own. They were very reluctant to sell just parts Vs a completed set up. It took a LOT of groveling. They were massively expensive but your belts are really important both from safety and comfort standpoints. You will wear them every time and the whole time you fly the airplane. It makes a HUGE difference in how you feel about the "experience" of flying your cub. Good belts are worth the money.

Good luck and hope this helps

Bill
 
Hooker makes what your searching for
 

Attachments

  • 6156F66F-C10A-4314-9486-8AAE42E4B569.png
    6156F66F-C10A-4314-9486-8AAE42E4B569.png
    507.5 KB · Views: 233
Simpson makes a TSO 5 point cam lock harness. Talked to my FSDO ands they said I had to have a DER give written installing instructions to install in a cert plane. Would not do a FA otherwise.

Doug
 
Doug, that’s whacked. And people wonder why Experimental is the new standard.

Personally I’d rather live than wait for it to be legally approved by someone covering their ass.


Sent from my iPhone using SuperCub.Org
 
I've been using used Pacific Scientific belts with and without reels for the last 20 years. Put them in everything I fly. Even borrowed aircraft. I have bought 15 or 20 over the years at flymarts or on eBay.
This is a good buy if you don't want reels, 4 available

https://www.ebay.com/itm/163924541541

Glenn
 
Simpson doesn’t offer inertial reels from what I can see on the website.

Hooker doesn’t show inertial reels either but if you download the price sheet it has them as an option for $175 each. The issue is that the price sheet is from 2012. I sent an inquiry and will report if they respond.
 
Hooker doesn’t show inertial reels either but if you download the price sheet it has them as an option for $175 each. The issue is that the price sheet is from 2012. I sent an inquiry and will report if they respond.

Thanks, I was noticing that too.

General question: I've read the policy letter etc., and I've read of Taylorcraft people wrapping a Y restraint belt end around a carry through tube and attached to itself. I haven't seen anything like that in the examples, but is that a viable approach?

I'm trying to find a solution for that Commonwealth Skyranger 185 I discussed last fall. It sort of fell into my lap recently.
 
Some photos of race cars I’ve seen have the shoulder strap wrapped around the roll cage.

Schroth shows shoulder strap upper end options that have a sewn in loop and an end you can loop around a tube and run back through a fitting on the strap to secure it. One could deduce from those depictions that it would be an acceptable method of securing the strap in certain applications. That’s an uneducated guess.
 
Simpson makes a TSO 5 point cam lock harness. Talked to my FSDO ands they said I had to have a DER give written installing instructions to install in a cert plane. Would not do a FA otherwise.

Doug

Did they show you the FAR that lead them to that conclusion?

Web
 
Hooker inertia reel
 

Attachments

  • AC6E68C5-ABFE-4FB1-8AD1-54F3877EA167.jpeg
    AC6E68C5-ABFE-4FB1-8AD1-54F3877EA167.jpeg
    138.5 KB · Views: 151
Simpson makes a TSO 5 point cam lock harness. Talked to my FSDO ands they said I had to have a DER give written installing instructions to install in a cert plane. Would not do a FA otherwise. Doug

I think those FSDO guys need to read the FAA's own policy statement that Cruiser posted a link to.
 
Hooker responded. Prices are the same as the 2012 price sheet. No response from Schroth yet besides an auto response verifying my email to them.

question: I was looking at attach points today and wondered what the potential drawbacks would be if I attached both sets of shoulder straps to the cross tube intended for the rear shoulder straps. The rear seat inertial real could be mounted below the headliner. The front seat inertial reels could be mounted above the headliner, routing the straps above the aft spar carry through and the cross tube they normally go over. It would get the front inertial reels back out of the way so as to not be a head banger for the rear seat passenger. The concern is that one tube is now tasked with restraining both occupants. Kind of a “Where we go one, we go all” proposition. Farmboy’s wreck photos show the carry through detached on both ends with a single occupant. That, however, may have been the result of the wing being ripped off impacting the tree which may have ripped one end of the carry through free and compromised the other end in the process. Anyway, good idea or bad?
 
Would you have a pic of that cross tube? Dunno if you remember how mine is done - the rear seat straps are fastened to the long diagonal that Piper put behind the rear seat. When I wrecked - hit hard enough to tear the engine off - that long diagonal which supported the passenger bent slightly, not even close to failing. I don't remember sizes right now, but can check and give you a pic if you'd like. Also, I'll be headed past your place Monday, and could stop by if that would help any.
 
Ed, I think Steve Pierce had posted a photo of how Legend or CubCrafters (?) does it, using a flat bar to tie two cross tubes together. Seemed like a good idea, perhaps that would help your build.


Sent from my iPhone using SuperCub.Org
 
4856C179-4048-4941-8DF7-75F550946EAF.jpgCA9C4D94-23B3-4A83-969C-0A14854CEC4D.jpg
Photo on the left shows the cross tube I’m talking about where the rear seat shoulder straps will mount. That’s where I’m thinking about mounting the front straps too. The pink string shows routing up over the aft spar carry through and forward over the cross tube in the X brace. The right photo is a shot from the exterior.

The tabs/nut plates hanging down from the spar carry through tube were for the headliner soffit to accommodate the flap cable for the overhead system. That hung down 1 3/16” which turned out to be too low, not enough head room. Those tabs will be removed, cable routing re-engineered and headliner adjusted.

Mounting the inertial reels all in the back would make a cleaner looking installation. Another consideration is spring tension in the reels. With the added strap length, mounting the reels in the back and stringing them over an additional tube, would the reels have the ability to keep tension?
 

Attachments

  • 4856C179-4048-4941-8DF7-75F550946EAF.jpg
    4856C179-4048-4941-8DF7-75F550946EAF.jpg
    75.8 KB · Views: 195
  • CA9C4D94-23B3-4A83-969C-0A14854CEC4D.jpg
    CA9C4D94-23B3-4A83-969C-0A14854CEC4D.jpg
    73.4 KB · Views: 198
You don't want to attach something with the potential for a high load where it will pull sideways in the middle of a tube. It could bend and tear out the tube. If you do chose to mount them there you should consider something going straight back to that first cluster from the attachment location.
 
You don't want to attach something with the potential for a high load where it will pull sideways in the middle of a tube. It could bend and tear out the tube. If you do chose to mount them there you should consider something going straight back to that first cluster from the attachment location.

IF I remember correctly, Cessna utilized a cable and
inertial reels where the cable was attached to separate Inertial reels, one for front and one for back to keep the strap elongation to a minimum. The inertial reels were placed behind the passenger seat/ observer with the cable for the front seat run through a couple of pullies overhead and then down to the over the shoulder Y strap. this was in their Bird Dog that they sold to the army back in the 60's. I do not know it the purchased the reels or if they made them.

Just a thought.
 
I have 5 point hooker harnesses in the front and rear. Smith cub so experimental. But they are nice.
 
Schroth responded after considerable delay. They have nothing in current inventory but would engineer something for me. Engineering “fees” would apply. Sounded like it would get very expensive.

I decided to buy two AmSafe restraints off eBay. I’ll have to modify the shoulder strap length but I believe the rest should work as is.
 
If you need anything made in belts bring you drawing and lengths and hardware to a Parachute Center. Then grab a licensed rigger and they can made them for you by mil spec.’s on material and sewing.
 
Back
Top