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Thread: Rear stick seems short

  1. #1

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    Rear stick seems short

    OK, I know that I am totally opening myself up for ridicule here but today for the first time I flew from the back seat. I should feel at home owning a J3 for more than 30 years but I have to say, the stick seems incredibly short. I don’t know if someone cut it off to make it more comfortable for passengers or if this is how it came from the factory. I would say it is no more then Half the size of the front stick in length. Maybe a little more than half but nevertheless it takes a heavy hand compared to the front stick in the PA-18 and not nearly as long as the rear stick in a J3. Does anyone know if this is normal or has someone shortened this thing?

  2. #2
    wireweinie's Avatar
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    Picture?

    Web
    Life's tough . . . wear a cup.

  3. #3
    supercrow's Avatar
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    Lengthen it as you wish, up to the point that it hits the back of the pilot seat in full down elevator position. That is usually the limiting factor. Maybe the front seat was modified and required the short stick?

  4. #4
    Steve Pierce's Avatar
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    What year model? A lot of the Super Cubs had a shorter stick in the back seat from the factory but it wasn't half the length, maybe a few inches. They started putting those rear sticks in the front in the late 70s and I can tell as soon as I fly it by the heavier feel on the controls.
    Steve Pierce

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  5. #5

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    This is a 1959 model. Here is the photo.

    Click image for larger version. 

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    Last edited by sdischer; 04-16-2020 at 04:22 PM.
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  6. #6
    Steve Pierce's Avatar
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    Someone cut that off and turned it around. Here is the front and rear stick side by side, -2 and -3.
    Click image for larger version. 

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    Last edited by Steve Pierce; 04-16-2020 at 04:36 PM.
    Steve Pierce

    Everybody is ignorant, only on different subjects.
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  7. #7

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    [QUOTE=sdischer;772085]This is a 1959 model. Here is the photo.

    Click image for larger version. 

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    Looks like your rear stick may be installed 180 degrees out, in other words the bend should be facing aft. That gives more clearance from the front seat with full forward stick.
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  8. #8

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    Quote Originally Posted by Steve Pierce View Post
    Someone cut that off and turned it around. Here is the front and rear stick side by side, -2 and -3.
    Click image for larger version. 

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    Thanks for the response.

  9. #9

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    Thanks. Time for a new one, this midget stick sucks.

  10. #10

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    $157 at Univair, ouch!
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  11. #11
    skywagon8a's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sdischer View Post
    Thanks. Time for a new one, this midget stick sucks.
    Quote Originally Posted by sdischer View Post
    $157 at Univair, ouch!
    A piece of tubing and a welding torch can fix that.
    N1PA
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  12. #12
    Steve Pierce's Avatar
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    It is an oddball size tube.
    Steve Pierce

    Everybody is ignorant, only on different subjects.
    Will Rogers

  13. #13
    skywagon8a's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Steve Pierce View Post
    It is an oddball size tube.
    That can be rectified also, it's only the stick.
    N1PA

  14. #14
    Steve Pierce's Avatar
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    Anything can be built but I have seen some piss poor atemps. Kinked tubes to get the bend etc. In the grand scheme of things it is what it is.
    Steve Pierce

    Everybody is ignorant, only on different subjects.
    Will Rogers

  15. #15
    Eddie Foy's Avatar
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    The reamer is your friend! Fill with sand before bending.
    "Put out my hand and touched the face of God!"

  16. #16
    skywagon8a's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Steve Pierce View Post
    Anything can be built but I have seen some piss poor atemps. Kinked tubes to get the bend etc. In the grand scheme of things it is what it is.
    True, I've seen fatal accidents which were caused by a welded aluminum stick breaking at the weld. It all depends on who and what.
    N1PA
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  17. #17
    mvivion's Avatar
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    Ummmm, as airplane part$$ go, $157 is like REALLY cheap.

    Once again, I’m reminded of the old saying: The cheapest thing in an airplane is the pilot.

    MTV
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  18. #18
    TurboBeaver's Avatar
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    With the normal lenght Cub stick and the seat all the way back, I was always leaning forward to hold it. (6') Always seams tooo low as well. Decided to simply try a Champ stick with it's huge offset and taller dimensions. Not needed if your vertically challenged! Or fly around with seat all way forward.
    Here is the direct comparison, now my back is directly in full contact with the vertical cushion, stick is up where it should be for comfort on an extended flight. Much nicer for us! Noticeable reduction of felt control pressures! Like power steering! Lol.
    EClick image for larger version. 

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    Last edited by TurboBeaver; 06-02-2020 at 01:49 AM.
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  19. #19
    cubdriver2's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TurboBeaver View Post
    With the normal lenght Cub stick and the seat all the way back, I was always leaning forward to hold it. (6') Always seams tooo low as well. Decided to simply try a Champ stick with it's huge offset and taller dimensions. Not needed if your vertically challenged! Or fly around with seat all way forward.
    Here is the direct comparison, now my back is directly in full contact with the vertical cushion, stick is up where it should be for comfort on an extended flight. Much nicer for us! Noticeable reduction of felt control pressures! Like power steering! Lol.
    EClick image for larger version. 

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    Stick shape reminds me of an Alfred Hitchcock movie

    Glenn
    Last edited by cubdriver2; 06-03-2020 at 03:50 AM.
    "Optimism is going after Moby Dick in a rowboat and taking the tartar sauce with you!"
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  20. #20
    TurboBeaver's Avatar
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    Guys that built Turnbulls 12 came up with almost same offset as the Champ stick via lots of welding of short pieces. Sorta similar end results.Click image for larger version. 

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  21. #21
    Farmboy's Avatar
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    Click image for larger version. 

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    They say 9 out of 10 prefer a curved stick.


    Transmitted from my FlightPhone on fingers...
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  22. #22
    wireweinie's Avatar
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    Better keep the seat belt tight on that one.

    Web
    Life's tough . . . wear a cup.
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  23. #23
    CamTom12's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by wireweinie View Post
    Better keep the seat belt tight on that one.

    Web
    Your signature is the perfect punch line to this! hahahahaha!
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  24. #24
    TurboBeaver's Avatar
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    Thinking of having a friend bend up some as a direct replacement for the Cub stick socket. Anyone 6 ft or more might want to consider this mod. Cheers
    E

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  25. #25
    skywagon8a's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TurboBeaver View Post
    Thinking of having a friend bend up some as a direct replacement for the Cub stick socket. Anyone 6 ft or more might want to consider this mod. Cheers
    E
    Keep in mind that if you change the length of the stick, you will change the control forces. There is a possibility that this could raise an FAA approval issue.
    N1PA

  26. #26
    TurboBeaver's Avatar
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    Lol,
    I bet your right Pete, in this world we are flying in now, changing a PK screw without some sorta approval, will soon become some sort of Federal crime.
    And since they all come with the standard
    $ 250,000 fine and 6 months in prison.
    Welcome to the "new" USA.


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  27. #27
    Steve Pierce's Avatar
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    I see all kinds of cobbled together sticks. The original long stick in the Super Cub has always felt perfect for me. I take it this is an issue with the PA12?
    Steve Pierce

    Everybody is ignorant, only on different subjects.
    Will Rogers

  28. #28
    skywagon8a's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TurboBeaver View Post
    Click image for larger version. 

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    Earle,
    Every time I see a modified/welded stick such as this, I get the willies. Back in 1962 I was sent by my boss to help the NTSB in a fatal Stearman accident investigation. The stick had a "V" cut out of it so that it would clear the chemical hopper and had been welded. The weld peeled back so that the pilot could not raise the nose and went into the trees. Granted the stick was made of aluminum and not steel, but still I would like to see at least some finger patches over each welded joint. Also at that time, welding was done by gas and not the nice equipment available today. But still, when I see things like your picture I get the vision of that Stearman wreck.

    I'm sure that the welder of that stick must be comfortable with his work, but at the very least there should be a finger patch on that bottom joint where the loads are the highest.
    N1PA

  29. #29
    TurboBeaver's Avatar
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    I agree with you compleatly Pete! I am going to have a friend bend some new 4130 tubing with sand, the same as the prototype we did up. Then heat treat them.
    Got 1/2 dozen guys interested in trying one.
    Just a silly little up grade, and I am sure lots of guys would be satisfied with a Phillips screwdriver shoved into the socket,
    But we just wanted something different.
    To each his own
    E

    Steve P,
    The welded stick is in a 12, however I was referencing my 18 and the orientation of a short 18 stick when the seat is all the way back , it has me arching my back off the seat back and tipping my head downward to hold the stick.......... I have flown them with both Piper sticks this way for 45 years; but decided to try an old Champ stick that was laying around....
    Had to cut it down twice to get height about right, had to bend it twice to get the angle perfect. It is an improvement imho,
    Your mileage may very......
    E


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    Last edited by TurboBeaver; 06-05-2020 at 01:37 PM.

  30. #30

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    Just snag a Bell 206 cyclic........

    Click image for larger version. 

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  31. #31
    SuperCub MD's Avatar
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    There is no reason a stock cub with stock seats and sticks should have travel limitations. If you do your elevator cables,rigging are not correct. Correct your rigging before you start playing with your sticks. If you are modified or experimenting,play on.
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  32. #32
    supercrow's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SuperCub MD View Post
    There is no reason a stock cub with stock seats and sticks should have travel limitations. If you do your elevator cables,rigging are not correct. Correct your rigging before you start playing with your sticks. If you are modified or experimenting,play on.
    I mentioned this exact issue to someone just the other day. Start with the elevator rigging and travel.

  33. #33
    TurboBeaver's Avatar
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    MD,
    The stick did not have ANY travel limitations at all.( Though it certainly may have been possible to adjust some of the angle more rearward to some extent, but not sure how effective that may be: if you began to run out of travel because of hitting the seat at some unusual angle???
    The limitation really was with the stick socket in a normal position: and seat fully AFT: for me to get my legs out in a comfortable position, it is so far forward to the stick itself, I simply found my back was arching off the seat back, which was no big deal on a 20 min Flight, but a major big deal on a 3/4 hr jaunt. This combined with the fact to reach out in that position; makes your head naturally looking into the bottom of the panel. Not straight out thru the center of the windshield. Another pretty uncomfortable position to have to pitch your head back against your neck to see out the windshield correctly. When I fish spotted for years, We welded tabs in so we could install a Cessna seat rails , then installed a C-206 fully articulated front seat, in to our Cub........ Huge difference.
    So for me, obviously not for you, I find a standard Cub seat all the way back a very poor set up, with a standard Cub stick . ( Although I did fly lots of them, set up that way all my life.)
    Simple as that: for all that enjoy the factory set up , I am all for that ( for you).
    I like about a 4/5" offset from the stick socket, and we have achieved that. Much more comfortable set up; but obviously not for everyone. For most folks 6' and over , one flight and they would throw the standard stick under the bench. None of this applys to guys 5'6" flying with the 18 seat pulled all the way forward. That will work fine as well. Just experimenting with
    an idea that turns out to be an interesting alternative to an old standard.
    Good Luck & Safe Flights
    E

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    Last edited by TurboBeaver; 06-05-2020 at 06:54 PM.

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