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Thread: Dont worry about medical renewals for a few months

  1. #1
    Richgj3's Avatar
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    Dont worry about medical renewals for a few months

    From FAA:

    The FAA will not take enforcement action(PDF) against certain pilots or flight engineers who fly with medical certificates that expire between March 31, 2020 and June 30, 2020. COVID-19 is placing a severe burden on the U.S. healthcare system. Requiring pilots to undergo in-person medical examinations would further stress the healthcare system, and would increase the risk of transmitting the virus through personal contact between the doctor and the applicant.

    Read the whole thing by clicking on the link.
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    Scooter7779h's Avatar
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    That might be warm and fuzzy and keep you from an FAA enforcement action, but does nothing to validate your insurance which requires a valid medical authorization, or any Part 135 or 121 operation that has AOMs that require valid certificates and medicals. Its a real issue for 135 and 121 operations that require Class I medicals with 6 month duration limitations and the status of the availability of facilities and AME's to issue current certificates.
    =========
    PA-12 fan

  3. #3
    Richgj3's Avatar
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    I thought about this, too. Insurance first. Hopefully they will review and clarify. There are other loop holes they need to close.

    Rich
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    I read that the Canadian FAA came out and gave their pilots an extension. Why couldn't the FAA simply do that? What does 'no enforcement' even mean?
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    WindOnHisNose's Avatar
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    Rich, thanks for posting this. It is important to note that this delay applies ONLY to required crew, which would be the Captain, First Officer and the Flight Engineer for most aircraft. This does NOT apply to those pilots I take care of, who have 2nd or 3rd Class medical certificates. With this in mind, please take a look at the expiration date of your medical certificate and plan accordingly.

    I know what you are thinking..."I am required crew for flying my Super Cub, so this applies to me." That is not my interpretation, and I seriously doubt it will be the interpretation of the FAA. This is likely NOT to be a free "Get Out of Jail" card, imho.

    From AOPA:


    “The Notice states that from March 31, 2020 to June 30, 2020, the FAA will not take legal enforcement action against any person serving as a required pilot flight crewmember or flight engineer who holds a medical certificate that expires within this time period,” FAA staff told AOPA leaders in an email that arrived March 26 with the new policy attached, ahead of its publication in the Federal Register. “This action allows medical resources (such as doctors appointed by the FAA as Aviation Medical Examiners) to be utilized where they are needed the most during this unprecedented situation, as well as lowers the risk of transmission of the virus during these aviation medical examinations that would otherwise take place. With this action, the FAA is exercising our enforcement discretion while still maintaining the highest levels of aviation safety in the National Airspace System.”

    Q: Will your AME perform the FAA exam or BasicMed exam?

    My Answer:

    1. Plan ahead.
    2. Please don't go in early, so to speak, and get an exam right now if you don't need it. For example, if your medical expires the end of May, don't schedule the exam for April, just to make sure you get it in.
    3. If you have a cough, or low grade fever, even if you are scheduled for the exam, Please Oh Please, cancel your appointment and self quarantine.

    While your AME may want to keep you flying, your AME and all the members of his/her health care team are putting themselves at risk in taking care of you. Please don't risk infecting me or my staff by ignoring or minimizing your symptoms.

    These guidelines are quite fluid, and I would expect it to change often.

    Your AME/BasicMed doc may have different ways of looking at this, so please check with them. Thanks for considering this as we move through this pandemic together.

    Randy
    Last edited by WindOnHisNose; 03-28-2020 at 07:50 PM.
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  6. #6
    WindOnHisNose's Avatar
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    I phoned AOPA moments ago to clarify interpretation of the FAA's recent policy change.

    They feel that any PIC would qualify for the exclusion from legal action "against any person serving as a required pilot flight crewmember or flight engineer who holds a medical certificate that expires within this time period", with that time period being defined as "from March 31, 2020 to June 30,2020."

    There is vaguery in the statement issued by the FAA, and AOPA recognizes this. The easiest option for the FAA was to state that legal action would be withheld, as opposed to making a rule change. That makes sense to me. AOPA is hoping for clarification of this, perhaps later today, but for now they feel that this exclusion applies to any pilot who acts as Pilot in Command.

    I'll clarify this further when I get word from AOPA.

    Randy
    Last edited by WindOnHisNose; 03-30-2020 at 10:31 AM.
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    aktango58's Avatar
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    I was passing through Anchorage in January, and did my medical a month early. This is looking to be a good decision.

    As stated above, it is one thing for the FAA to take no enforcement action, it is another for insurance and major airlines to fly with pilots having outdated medicals. Ops specs and other manuals have to be followed. What happens if a jet goes down with a first officer holding a medical that is expired? That will not read well in the news.

    Without the FAA stating: Extend all medicals by two months for expiration, I don't see lots of companies flying pilots beyond the medical date. Not like we are short of pilots now either.

    I see they are trying, but don't see this as the solution they hope it to be.

    Thank you to all medical staff that go to work every day!! If I don't come in to say that to you, don't take offense; I am avoiding most people.
    I don't know where you've been me lad, but I see you won first Prize!

  8. #8
    WindOnHisNose's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by aktango58 View Post
    I was passing through Anchorage in January, and did my medical a month early. This is looking to be a good decision.

    As stated above, it is one thing for the FAA to take no enforcement action, it is another for insurance and major airlines to fly with pilots having outdated medicals. Ops specs and other manuals have to be followed. What happens if a jet goes down with a first officer holding a medical that is expired? That will not read well in the news.

    Without the FAA stating: Extend all medicals by two months for expiration, I don't see lots of companies flying pilots beyond the medical date. Not like we are short of pilots now either.

    I see they are trying, but don't see this as the solution they hope it to be.

    Thank you to all medical staff that go to work every day!! If I don't come in to say that to you, don't take offense; I am avoiding most people.
    Excellent points, George. Thank you for offering your perspective!

    Randy

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    Ask your insurer. Not a problem for Avemco customers. I just spoke to them.
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    Quote Originally Posted by stewartb View Post
    Ask your insurer. Not a problem for Avemco customers. I just spoke to them.

    I asked Bill White and they had no clue what I was talking about. There is a bunch of stuff directly related to insurance, such as biennials and flight physicals. You would think insurance companies would be on top of how this wuhu kung flu is affecting the industry. And, just what does "a required pilot flight crewmember or flight engineer" mean? Does that apply to us Part 91 drivers?
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  11. #11

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    I'll gladly spot the FAA a comma to go between the words "pilot" and "flight crewmember" in order to solve the confusion they created while trying to do the right thing.
    Remember, These are the Good old Days!
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  12. #12
    WindOnHisNose's Avatar
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    180_jeff, AOPA is trying to get clarification on biennial flight reviews, etc, from the FAA. Thanks for pointing that out!

    Randy

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    Annual inspections should be considered as well. I don't want to talk to a sick mechanic let alone have a sick mechanic work in my airplane. Not that my mechanic is sick, but annuals are as much an issue as flight physicals.
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    skywagon8a's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 180_jeff View Post
    I read that the Canadian FAA came out and gave their pilots an extension. Why couldn't the FAA simply do that? What does 'no enforcement' even mean?
    Don't forget one important thing. The FAA is not happy unless you are not happy.
    N1PA
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    aktango58's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by stewartb View Post
    Annual inspections should be considered as well. I don't want to talk to a sick mechanic let alone have a sick mechanic work in my airplane. Not that my mechanic is sick, but annuals are as much an issue as flight physicals.

    While I agree to some point on Annuals, but this ruling I believe was to target pilots flying for (large) airlines. Pilots at least can feel a headache, or other medical issues. Developing troubles in aircraft not so much.

    Most of those birds I suspect are on progressive inspections. Even so, good airlines are constantly repairing and looking over their equipment.
    I don't know where you've been me lad, but I see you won first Prize!
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    irishfield's Avatar
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    Yep, we just got an extension if our medical expired after March 17th and before June 1st and we're good until August and LEGAL. I suspect we'll be seeing another exemption come out in the next month giving us well into the Fall to renew. Mine is due in May, but I suspect my medical appointment will be cancelled.
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  17. #17
    Richgj3's Avatar
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    Clear and concise Nice job in Canada. Another FAA moto is “Why write six paragraphs when forty three will do.”
    Last edited by Richgj3; 04-01-2020 at 07:52 PM.

  18. #18
    Steve Pierce's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by stewartb View Post
    Annual inspections should be considered as well. I don't want to talk to a sick mechanic let alone have a sick mechanic work in my airplane. Not that my mechanic is sick, but annuals are as much an issue as flight physicals.
    That is what I have been thinking about for several weeks. Most all of my work comes from far away and have had some not able to get here while others have. Maybe the FAA will fix their F'd up ferry permit program.
    Steve Pierce

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    I got a ferry permit with one simple phone call. I’m more concerned about using it.

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    RaisedByWolves's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Steve Pierce View Post
    That is what I have been thinking about for several weeks. Most all of my work comes from far away and have had some not able to get here while others have. Maybe the FAA will fix their F'd up ferry permit program.
    Now that is wishful thinking. Don’t even think of calling them for something they are capable of doing, they are “way too busy”


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    skywagon8a's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by stewartb View Post
    I got a ferry permit with one simple phone call. I’m more concerned about using it.
    You guys in Alaska have your own sensible FAA. They bear no resemblance to the lower 48's FAA.
    N1PA
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    Ferry permits aren’t the topic. Required disregard for social distancing is.

  23. #23
    n40ff's Avatar
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    I heard a rumor they might suspend flight reviews too? I need one in Nov. hope it's over by then. And we are still alive.
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  24. #24
    Steve Pierce's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by stewartb View Post
    Ferry permits aren’t the topic. Required disregard for social distancing is.
    The social distancing effects the maintenance and inspection of said aircraft and therefore the ability to get a ferry permit is a legitimate concern unless something like the policy on airmen is implemented on aircraft. Glad you had no issue getting a ferry permit but it is a legitimate concern for those of us trying to maintain these things for a living who are also effected by this whole "social distancing" thing.
    Steve Pierce

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    Quote Originally Posted by Richgj3 View Post
    Clear and concise Nice job in Canada. Another FAA moto is “Why write six paragraphs when forty three will do.”
    No kidding. Still not clear to me whether medicals for Part 91 PPL guys have been extended 90 days.
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  26. #26

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    Quote Originally Posted by Steve Pierce View Post
    The social distancing effects the maintenance and inspection of said aircraft and therefore the ability to get a ferry permit is a legitimate concern unless something like the policy on airmen is implemented on aircraft. Glad you had no issue getting a ferry permit but it is a legitimate concern for those of us trying to maintain these things for a living who are also effected by this whole "social distancing" thing.
    We all have to adapt. None of us has a choice. Compared to many I hear about I figure I'm pretty lucky, but on the personal side I may not see my wife for a few months.

    As for ferry permits, have your customers been getting declined? Have they asked? I'd like to hear about actual denials to owners, especially given the current state of things. My own ferry permit story is a pirep.

    Some guys just aren't happy unless they're unhappy. That doesn't mean it's somebody else's fault.

  27. #27
    Steve Pierce's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by stewartb View Post
    We all have to adapt. None of us has a choice. Compared to many I hear about I figure I'm pretty lucky, but on the personal side I may not see my wife for a few months.

    As for ferry permits, have your customers been getting declined? Have they asked? I'd like to hear about actual denials to owners, especially given the current state of things. My own ferry permit story is a pirep.

    Some guys just aren't happy unless they're unhappy. That doesn't mean it's somebody else's fault.
    FAA here will not issue them. DAR has to go to the airplane and issue it. The issue I am bringing up is about implementing a policy for an impending issue like that for the pilots. Not bitching about ferry permits just pointing out an issue that will come up. I never saw an issue with the way ferry permits were done before but evidently someone in our government did.
    Steve Pierce

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    n40ff's Avatar
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    I haven't had a ferry permit for years but what was wrong with the FAA giving you one and a mechanic signing it off?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Steve Pierce View Post
    FAA here will not issue them. DAR has to go to the airplane and issue it. The issue I am bringing up is about implementing a policy for an impending issue like that for the pilots. Not bitching about ferry permits just pointing out an issue that will come up. I never saw an issue with the way ferry permits were done before but evidently someone in our government did.
    I like to hear info from the source so I called Dallas FSDO, got voice mail, and then called Houston FSDO and spoke to an airworthiness inspector. He says they're doing ferry permits, no problem. He hadn't heard of any policy shift to send anyone to a DAR but says the preferred way to apply is using the AWC process on the FAA website. Fill out the profile, submit for the ferry permit electronically, and for him it's click, click, done. He did say the AWC process is the source of some confusion and the mandatory implementation has been delayed until June but if you're computer savvy it's the way to get it done.

    https://www.faa.gov/aircraft/air_cer...tion_Guide.pdf
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  30. #30
    skywagon8a's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by stewartb View Post
    I like to hear info from the source so I called Dallas FSDO, got voice mail, and then called Houston FSDO and spoke to an airworthiness inspector. He says they're doing ferry permits, no problem. He hadn't heard of any policy shift to send anyone to a DAR but says the preferred way to apply is using the AWC process on the FAA website. Fill out the profile, submit for the ferry permit electronically, and for him it's click, click, done. He did say the AWC process is the source of some confusion and the mandatory implementation has been delayed until June but if you're computer savvy it's the way to get it done.

    https://www.faa.gov/aircraft/air_cer...tion_Guide.pdf
    I invite you to review post #1 dated 8-30-2019: https://www.supercub.org/forum/showt...ce-method-GONE
    My FSDO sent that Email: He made it clear "This is being directed from headquarters; we are being instructed to make the utmost use of our designees. To that end, we are also looking into granting the DAR-T’s the ability to perform field approvals. This process is ongoing and may take a while to get all the requirements that they have to meet in place."

    Apparently there is more than one headquarters in the lower 48. We already know there are two FAAs. One in the lower 48 and one in Alaska.
    Apparently headquarters doesn't communicate with the Houston FSDO?
    N1PA

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    I called, I asked, and I shared the answer. I hope other guys pick up the phone and ask their FSDOs, or follow the FAA policy and use the AWC process. I was told the electronic request is what the FAA prefers.

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    Quote Originally Posted by stewartb View Post
    I called, I asked, and I shared the answer. I hope other guys pick up the phone and ask their FSDOs, or follow the FAA policy and use the AWC process. I was told the electronic request is what the FAA prefers.
    I actually did call the FSDO earlier in the week and I am still waiting for the inspector to return my call.

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    The AWC process had been scheduled to take effect on Jan 1 and was postponed thru March 31. Now it's extended again but the FSDO guy said if you want the permit fast to do the electronic submittal. It's probably worth a try.

  34. #34
    WindOnHisNose's Avatar
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    Hey, let's stay focused folks. Avoid the trap. These are uneasy times and can bring out the worst in people. We are all trying to make this situation easier.

    Randy
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  35. #35
    WindOnHisNose's Avatar
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    I just spoke to the folks at AOPA, and confirmed the conversation with the FAA.

    The extension mentioned previously extends to all who act as pilot in command, and is not limited to professional pilots who act as captain, first officer and flight engineers.

    Your medical, if it expires within the time period between March 31, 2020 to June 30, 2020, will technically still be expired. The FAA intends to NOT initiate legal action for pilots who expire during this time period.

    It is the advice of AOPA for us to contact our insurance carriers to learn of their approach to this decision by the FAA. This reinforces what some have posted on this thread.

    I was not able to gain clarification regarding BFRs, maintenance (annual) inspections.

    Randy
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  36. #36
    kase's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by skywagon8a View Post
    I invite you to review post #1 dated 8-30-2019: https://www.supercub.org/forum/showt...ce-method-GONE
    My FSDO sent that Email: He made it clear "This is being directed from headquarters; we are being instructed to make the utmost use of our designees. To that end, we are also looking into granting the DAR-T’s the ability to perform field approvals. This process is ongoing and may take a while to get all the requirements that they have to meet in place."

    Apparently there is more than one headquarters in the lower 48. We already know there are two FAAs. One in the lower 48 and one in Alaska.
    Apparently headquarters doesn't communicate with the Houston FSDO?
    I was told by my “managing specialist” about 6 or 8 months ago that Baltimore FSDO will be referring ferry permits to me. I’ve also had Field Approval authority for about 5 years now.

    Someone mentioned the AWC web site, FAA just issued another delay on that until June.


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    I am BasicMed and ok for at least another 3 years. I am not giving dual except in the Stearman, and even there we are being really cautious. Only one guy touches doors, tug, prop, etc, and I (of course) get the left wing.

    So, no flight reviews from me until this Covid thing gets better understood.

  39. #39
    Steve Pierce's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by kase View Post
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    Most of the time. My AME has said on more than one occasion that I get the most out of mine.
    Steve Pierce

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  40. #40
    hotrod180's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by WindOnHisNose View Post
    ....The extension mentioned previously extends to all who act as pilot in command, and is not limited to professional pilots who act as captain, first officer and flight engineers. Your medical, if it expires within the time period between March 31, 2020 to June 30, 2020, will technically still be expired. The FAA intends to NOT initiate legal action for pilots who expire during this time period......
    Not pursuing enforcement action against an expired medical IMHO is NOT the same as extending the effective date of your medical.
    Kinda like a cop letting someone slide for speeding vs upping the speed limit.
    I have my doubts about insurance companies extending coverage past the official medical cert expiration date.
    And what about BFR's?
    I usually do my medical & BFR the same month as my birthday, easier to keep track of that way.
    I doubt there's many CFI's eager to climb into someone else's airplane to do a BFR these days.
    Cessna Skywagon-- accept no substitute!

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