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Thread: Zlin Savage Norden

  1. #1

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    Zlin Savage Norden

    Hey y’all, Zlin announced a new STOL aircraft today. The electric retractable fowler slats are too cool! I think it looks a bit like a mini Husky. Thoughts?

    https://www.facebook.com/20748807938...1059/?vh=e&d=n
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  2. #2

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    Looks like fun!

  3. #3

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    tell us more about the top cowl, why the flare. and that little circle on the boot cowl with the 4 screws.

  4. #4

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    the little circle is likely a static port, the cowl flare my guess is cosmetic or to stiffen the cowl

  5. #5

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    Looks like a nice plane, however I don't see too many STOL competitors looking for electric flaps.
    DENNY

  6. #6

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    Quote Originally Posted by DENNY View Post
    Looks like a nice plane, however I don't see too many STOL competitors looking for electric flaps.
    DENNY
    Slats being electric. Think is what he said Denny. That way you can tuck Em in when ya don’t need em.
    Good idea actually.

  7. #7

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    The flare is for the injector rails on the 915 iS, similar to what Flight Design had to do when they went from the carbureted 912 to the 912 iS fuel injected engine. You can’t wrap as tightly around the engine without accounting for this.

    Yes, flaps are manual extension and retraction above the pilots left shoulder. You can see the flap handle in the photos if you look closely enough. The slats are electrically controlled by a switch on the stick.

  8. #8

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    My bad electric slats would be great!
    DENNY

  9. #9

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    How so?

  10. #10

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    You could suck them in and that should give you a less drag when you feel the need for speed.
    DENNY

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    They do that on their own. If you want to pin them tight that's pretty simple, too.

  12. #12

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    Quote Originally Posted by stewartb View Post
    They do that on their own. If you want to pin them tight that's pretty simple, too.
    These are fixed unless you retract them electrically via a toggle switch. The wing area goes from 156 sq.ft to 175 sq.fr when the slats and flaps are extended. More wing loading and less drag where you want it in cruise, and more wing and AOA where you need it during landing.

  13. #13
    courierguy's Avatar
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    No one mentioned the flaps? That's what caught my eye. Couldn't tell what type of shock struts on the gear it had. Looked like a T-3 tail spring (mine just arrived today, looks good), and haven't seen droop tips in a while?
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  14. #14
    CamTom12's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by stewartb View Post
    They do that on their own. If you want to pin them tight that's pretty simple, too.
    Not entirely true. The type you run and the Handley-Page slats (like the Helio Courier runs) have large drag differences in cruise. Even though yours “retract” at cruise speeds, they still draw a flat-plate drag penalty.

    In low speed flight I think both types of slats perform similarly.

    Yours gain points for weight and simplicity. Handley-Page slats gain points for cruise drag reductions.

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    I'll defer to the experts. Controllable slats might be interesting in a crosswind where they could be kept in but with the pireps about the Highlander in the wind I'm not sire that's important. My wings are a handful in the wind. But I need more time to get used to them.
    Last edited by stewartb; 03-26-2020 at 06:49 AM.

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    Jetcat,

    Do you have specs? Cruise speed, landing speed? It looks like it's a slippery Cub that's trying to maintain some slow speed capability. I'm sure that appeals to some. Slippery isn't my priority but new ideas are always interesting. My initial thought is the nose is high. Most slat wing Cubs move the engine down to improve visibility. I look forward to videos of it flying.

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    Quote Originally Posted by stewartb View Post
    Jetcat,

    Do you have specs? Cruise speed, landing speed? It looks like it's a slippery Cub that's trying to maintain some slow speed capability. I'm sure that appeals to some. Slippery isn't my priority but new ideas are always interesting. My initial thought is the nose is high. Most slat wing Cubs move the engine down to improve visibility. I look forward to videos of it flying.
    I believe they are still waiting for its first test flight as Corona has put a wrench in that. The flaps are double slotted semi-Fowler like the Outback Shock has. This wing has less chord than the Shock but yes, more slippery in cruise while maintaining great STOL performance as it is quite light and will have similar wing area to a Carbon Cub when the slats and flaps are fully extended at 174.7 sq.ft.

    Here is some more information. Length at 23’, wingspan of 29’ 7”, and basic empty weight of 793 pounds. Click image for larger version. 

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    Last edited by jetcat11; 03-27-2020 at 03:11 PM. Reason: Punctuation

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    Interesting that it still has dual lift struts, even though the wing is all metal. As compared to the Bearhawk LSA, RANS 21, and others, once they go metal, most seem to only need 1 strut as the tin skin gives it torsional rigidity, or so I've heard ....793 pounds isn't particularly light for this class of plane, and I bet that's with the 912S, not with the 915i? Fabric still seems to be the lightest wing covering, all things considered. The slats and tin skin probably added 20+ pounds. Those flaps.....I was almost getting sexually aroused watching the video of them deploying, very sexy! Cool plane.

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    300 horse Edge Performance engine available. That should be interesting!
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    Quote Originally Posted by courierguy View Post
    No one mentioned the flaps? That's what caught my eye. Couldn't tell what type of shock struts on the gear it had. Looked like a T-3 tail spring (mine just arrived today, looks good), and haven't seen droop tips in a while?
    I made an error and thought these flaps were the same as the Shock Cub. They are actually 3-hanger Performance Flaps on the Norden which I’ve read are about the best modification you can make to a stock Super Cub. That combined with the Fowler type slats should make for a wonderful combination of slower airspeed at a reduced AOA required for off airport fun.

    There is only one place where the slats are going to make a significant difference and the designer of the aircraft has assured me they have achieved that position. If the electric actuator failed for any reason there will always be a symmetrical situation for both wings even close to the ground. I’d say there’s good reason why airliners use electric slats and I’m really excited to see how they perform now that they are mounted like a mini CRJ 700’s.

    The drooped wingtips are there to effectively increase the local span loading near the tips which should increase the effectiveness of the ailerons at slower speeds. They’ve also been shown to modify the departure stall characteristics to maintain flow near the tips longer as the stall progresses.

    The nose has been lowered along with the dashboard to provide enhanced visibility for this reason. Just look at how far the front windscreen extends. The nose high attitude is to maximize the AOA for takeoff and landing. I’m personally excited about this as it will make for an impressive STOL competitor as the Shock Cub’s tailwheel gave up significant AOA on takeoffs

    The shock struts are made by a company in Germany and yes, a T3 tailwheel suspension. The empty weight isn’t bad at all when you consider this has an all metal wing with double aeronautical spars, electric slats, performance flaps along with a stout undercarriage and design good for 1765 pounds. And yes, I’m also assuming that includes the Rotax 912 ULS in that basic empty weight.
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  21. #21
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    Zlin Savage Norden

    No such thing as a Fowler slat, and the flaps appear to be double slotted non Fowler’s. Still, they’re tremendous leading and trailing edge devices.

    Flaps increase the wing’s AoA (effective chord line in relation to the relative wind), while slats energize the air moving over the wing to help prevent stall at higher wing AoA. The deck angle of the airplane isn’t in lock-step with wing AoA: when you start deploying flaps the wing AoA increases with no change to aircraft deck angle. We pitch the nose back down to maintain the approximate wing AoA.

    Looks like a fun plane!
    Last edited by CamTom12; Yesterday at 10:45 PM.

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