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Thread: Basic Med OK in Canada yet?

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    55-PA18A's Avatar
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    Basic Med OK in Canada yet?

    Several months ago there was a notice that Basic Med was accepted for flying to Mexico, but not yet approved for travel to/through Canada. Has there been any change in that regarding flying into Canada?

    Jim

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    Not that I'm aware. It's been anxiously anticipated by many flyers on both sides of the border but there's been no reciprocal agreement reached as yet.

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    hotrod180's Avatar
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    Is AOPA and/or FAA actively pursuing this?
    Cessna Skywagon-- accept no substitute!

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    windy's Avatar
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    It was the Baja Bush Pilots that got Mexico on-board with BasicMed, not AOPA or EAA. Don’t hold your breath.


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    WWhunter's Avatar
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    As Wendy mentioned....don't hold your breath. I posed the question about Canada/USA recipricol a couple years ago to Mark Baker (AOPA) at the greater MN gathering. His response was it was something they were hoping to bring up at some international meeting. This meeting was to take place in 2018 I believe. I've never heard any further progress on the issue.
    I know there are a lot of guys in MN currently flying under BM that would love to be able to fly up to their cabins in Canada. Hopefully something gets accomplished before the pilots that can bring in 'new' cross border travelers, are no longer able to legally fly into the north country for fishing and other activities.

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    skywagon8a's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by WWhunter View Post
    I know there are a lot of guys in MN currently flying under BM that would love to be able to fly up to their cabins in Canada. Hopefully something gets accomplished before the pilots that can bring in 'new' cross border travelers, are no longer able to legally fly into the north country for fishing and other activities.
    Have any of these pilots had to show their medicals to the authorities when they cleared customs northbound?
    N1PA
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    I’ve never been asked for a medical certificate in Canada, but have been asked every time I return to the US. Wonder what the reaction would be, if any, landing in the states from Canada with no medical? Do they know, or care, about the Canadian requirement?
    Mark

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    WWhunter's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by skywagon8a View Post
    Have any of these pilots had to show their medicals to the authorities when they cleared customs northbound?
    As mam90 replied, I have not heard of the Canadian authorities asking for medical but I have heard from guys returning that have been asked when re-entering the US. Not sure what the heck they would do, but the guys that I know with BM had someone else bring their aircraft back across the border.

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    skywagon8a's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mam90 View Post
    I’ve never been asked for a medical certificate in Canada, but have been asked every time I return to the US. Wonder what the reaction would be, if any, landing in the states from Canada with no medical? Do they know, or care, about the Canadian requirement?
    Quote Originally Posted by WWhunter View Post
    As mam90 replied, I have not heard of the Canadian authorities asking for medical but I have heard from guys returning that have been asked when re-entering the US. Not sure what the heck they would do, but the guys that I know with BM had someone else bring their aircraft back across the border.
    Just a guess on my part, the US people are only concerned with the US requirements. What you do or did in Canada remains in Canada. With my past experiences in Canada, the Canadian authorities are very laid back and cooperative. So much so, I used to ask myself whether I should move to Canada?
    N1PA

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    WindOnHisNose's Avatar
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    You may want to consider holding your breath because of COVID-19, not because you feel that AOPA is ineffective.

    Were it not for AOPA we wouldn't be even thinking about an alternative to the FAA medical certifications. I happen to know that Mark Baker and AOPA are working diligently to gain Canadian acceptance of BasicMed. Why did they target Canada and not Mexico? The number of general aviation flights to our northern neighbor is many times that to our southern neighbor, and the impact of Canadian acceptance of BasicMed is much greater than Mexican acceptance. Same goes for why AOPA worked on the Bahama's (in which they were also successful).

    EAA factored very, very little in all the efforts to gain BasicMed. I have it on good authority that the lobbying and behind the scenes negotiations which led to Congress passing the BasicMed legislation was at least 10:1 AOPA:EAA. Did it do AOPA any good to publicize that fact? No. Was it frustrating to later see EAA taking credit for the effort to pass the legislation? I am sure it was. I am also aware of the fact that AOPA was behind the scenes in securing recognition by Mexico of BasicMed. Impact of the Baja Bush Pilots? Was it helpful? probably. Significant? Given the relative sizes of AOPA membership compared to the Baja Bush Pilots, you decide.

    From my perspective we are all in this together. We celebrate our composite victories together, we suffer our defeats together.

    "It was the Baja Bush Pilots that got Mexico on-board with BasicMed, not AOPA or EAA." C'mon, this type of hyperbole benefits noone.

    Randy
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    WindOnHisNose's Avatar
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    I had the opportunity to speak with Mark Baker a few minutes ago regarding a number of things, and inquired as to the status of BasicMed in Canada. He feels that barriers are being broken down and the COVID-19 issues have caused cancellation of a critical meeting. AOPA is working two different approaches to this issue, and he is confident that we will have news regarding this later this year. AOPA is not standing by idly and are working with Transport Canada to get this resolved.

    Randy
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    Quote Originally Posted by WindOnHisNose View Post
    I had the opportunity to speak with Mark Baker a few minutes ago regarding a number of things, and inquired as to the status of BasicMed in Canada. He feels that barriers are being broken down and the COVID-19 issues have caused cancellation of a critical meeting. AOPA is working two different approaches to this issue, and he is confident that we will have news regarding this later this year. AOPA is not standing by idly and are working with Transport Canada to get this resolved.

    Randy
    Ok now that you're on a first name basis please continue the conversation with LSA changes

    From Genesis: "And God promised men that good and obedient wives would be
    found in all corners of the earth."

    Then he made the earth round... and He laughed and laughed and laughed!
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    WindOnHisNose's Avatar
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    Personally, I think this will happen later this year.

    Randy
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    WWhunter's Avatar
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    Randy,

    I met no disrespect what so ever towards AOPA. I am a member and have been one for 30+ years. My 'gripe' if you want to call it that, is maybe they could keep membership a little more apprised in regards to any further progress. Granted, this can cause undue speculation and rumors, but an occassional update would be helpful.

    Thank you for the update!

    Regards,
    Keith
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    windy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by WindOnHisNose View Post
    You may want to consider holding your breath because of COVID-19, not because you feel that AOPA is ineffective.

    "It was the Baja Bush Pilots that got Mexico on-board with BasicMed, not AOPA or EAA." C'mon, this type of hyperbole benefits noone.

    Randy

    Just giving credit where credit is due. I have nothing against AOPA or EAA and am a member of both organizations.

    You don’t have to belittle or be condescending to others that may have an opinion different than yours. Like you said, we are all in this together.
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    My take is EAA was the main push behind LSA / sport pilot,
    & AOPA was the push behind BasicMed.
    Don't think I ever saw either outfit taking credit for their counterpart's work.
    Cessna Skywagon-- accept no substitute!

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    Quote Originally Posted by WWhunter View Post
    Randy,

    I met no disrespect what so ever towards AOPA. I am a member and have been one for 30+ years. My 'gripe' if you want to call it that, is maybe they could keep membership a little more apprised in regards to any further progress. Granted, this can cause undue speculation and rumors, but an occassional update would be helpful.

    Thank you for the update!

    Regards,
    Keith
    In my experience, the single best way to loose something you're lobbying for is to talk about your progress in obtaining it...
    Remember, These are the Good old Days!
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    55-PA18A's Avatar
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    Thanks for all the responses and good information. Personally I don't think I'd cross the border into Canada and assume they wouldn't care. Especially with the current situation. I seem to recall there was some push from Congress to force FAA's hand on Basic Med. Perhaps later this spring would be a good time for folks to send requests to their Congressional delegation to see if they could help it along.

    Jim

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    skywagon8a's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 55-PA18A View Post
    Thanks for all the responses and good information. Personally I don't think I'd cross the border into Canada and assume they wouldn't care. Especially with the current situation. I seem to recall there was some push from Congress to force FAA's hand on Basic Med. Perhaps later this spring would be a good time for folks to send requests to their Congressional delegation to see if they could help it along.

    Jim
    Remember we are talking about Canada, a foreign country not our Congressional delegation. Our country's government does not have the authority nor the implied consent to tell another country how to manage their aviation policy. We can desire that they do what we wish but we can not tell them what to do.
    N1PA
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  20. #20

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    You accept our Class 4 medical and we'll accept your Basic Med. It doesn't sound like rocket science!
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    Eddie Foy's Avatar
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    There in lies the rub. How closely does it compare to Basic Med? As I understand it, the class four does not require any sort of Doctor exam or involvement.

    Quote Originally Posted by NunavutPA-12 View Post
    You accept our Class 4 medical and we'll accept your Basic Med. It doesn't sound like rocket science!
    "Put out my hand and touched the face of God!"

  22. #22

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    Well, a "Medical Practitioner" has to look at your chart and confirm the accuracy of your Declaration. ECG at specified intervals. Pretty hard to cheat in my experience.

  23. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by Eddie Foy View Post
    There in lies the rub. How closely does it compare to Basic Med? As I understand it, the class four does not require any sort of Doctor exam or involvement.
    That sounds suspiciously like sport pilot.....
    which I believe Canada doesn't accept either.
    Again, "you accept ours, we'll accept yours" sounds like a good idea.
    Cessna Skywagon-- accept no substitute!
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    It isn’t a trade negotiation requiring some sort of give and take. TP should look at BasicMed, evaluate whether it accomplishes whatever it is that medical certifications are supposed to accomplish, and say either “ok,” “ok with the following restrictions,” or “no, and here’s why. . .”

    COPA could petition the FAA, who have the same reasonable options for answers.

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    Quote Originally Posted by 40m View Post
    Ok now that you're on a first name basis please continue the conversation with LSA changes
    Don’t hold your breath on LSA changes anytime soon. I heard from my sources in FAA that the entire Mosaic plan has been scrapped due to lack of funding.


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    WWhunter's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by dgapilot View Post
    Don’t hold your breath on LSA changes anytime soon. I heard from my sources in FAA that the entire Mosaic plan has been scrapped due to lack of funding.


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    Direct from an EAA rep;
    "I checked with a well-placed FAA source, and he categorically denied this. We're still on track. The latest we heard (pre-lockdown) was that they planned to go into formal rulemaking mode over the summer."

    Hopefully the truth is that it is still being worked on in the dark dungeons of our government.
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    WindOnHisNose's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by WWhunter View Post
    Randy,

    I met no disrespect what so ever towards AOPA. I am a member and have been one for 30+ years. My 'gripe' if you want to call it that, is maybe they could keep membership a little more apprised in regards to any further progress. Granted, this can cause undue speculation and rumors, but an occassional update would be helpful.

    Thank you for the update!

    Regards,
    Keith
    Hi, Keith, I surely didn't find your post disrespectful. I understand and share your feeling that updates would be helpful. I think there are so many behind-the-scenes maneuvers going on that it is difficult to "show our hands" (from a Poker perspective) when negotiations are going on. I think that stuff goes on with lobbyists a bunch, and we would likely be appalled by the approaches of lobbyists. I think Kirby's comment is spot on in this thread.

    "It was the Baja Bush Pilots that got Mexico on-board with BasicMed, not AOPA or EAA. Don’t hold your breath." That statement was condescending and offensive (based upon my working knowledge of AOPA's BasicMed) , hence my attempt to point out that it was misleading and untrue.

    With regard to "
    Don't think I ever saw either outfit taking credit for their counterpart's work" I recall EAA jumping on board as a champion of the legislative feat when I knew from my work with AOPA that they had done very little, and that is frustrating. I would have preferred EAA to announce something to the effect "EAA Congratulates AOPA for Establishing BasicMed", or something to that effect.

    We are all in this together, but it is important to give credit where credit is due.

    imho

    Randy
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  28. #28
    windy's Avatar
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    This was in the email newsletter issued by Bush Pilots International (“Baja Bush Pilots”) on 10/14/2019. To say that facts are condescending and untrue is in itself condescending and disrespectful.


    “MEXICO APPROVES BASIC-MED


    Within a day of my departing CDMX and my meeting with Lic. Rodrigo Vasquez Colmenares Guzman, the Director General of the DGCA/SCT, the Director announced that he was approving the use of the US BasicMed program for flyers who wish to fly in Mexico. It is to be effective December 10, 2019.

    This is a major announcement for those who wish to fly to Mexico on BasicMed and is especially special to the BBP as this was an agenda item that I worked with the DG several days before he made the announcement.”



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  29. #29
    WindOnHisNose's Avatar
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    With all due respect, Windy, their is a significant difference between the message that you apparently based your comments on and your conclusion that the BBP "got Mexico on-board with BasicMed, not AOPA or EAA".

    I stand by my statement.

    Randy

  30. #30
    windy's Avatar
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    Well, at least my statement has a valid basis, as opposed to an unsubstantiated opinion.

    Enough bickering.


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    Quote Originally Posted by WWhunter View Post
    Direct from an EAA rep;
    "I checked with a well-placed FAA source, and he categorically denied this. We're still on track. The latest we heard (pre-lockdown) was that they planned to go into formal rulemaking mode over the summer."

    Hopefully the truth is that it is still being worked on in the dark dungeons of our government.
    From my source,

    Dear Terry,

    Thx so much for your note.

    Last summer the FAA decided against MOSAIC rulemaking proposals to enable exchanges of standard for special airworthiness certificates. Instead, our Maintenance Division is considering policy solutions to more directly lower maintenance burdens for owners of vintage/legacy aircraft.

    Kevin Morgan is the POC for these new policy solutions. I’ve included Kevin as an addressee to this email. Please follow-up with him for any further discussion of this topic.

    Thank you!
    V/r,
    Jim

    Jim Newberger
    Airworthiness Certification, AIR-6C3
    Federal Aviation Administration
    202-267-1636 (W)


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  32. #32
    WindOnHisNose's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by dgapilot View Post
    From my source,

    Dear Terry,

    Thx so much for your note.

    Last summer the FAA decided against MOSAIC rulemaking proposals to enable exchanges of standard for special airworthiness certificates. Instead, our Maintenance Division is considering policy solutions to more directly lower maintenance burdens for owners of vintage/legacy aircraft.

    Kevin Morgan is the POC for these new policy solutions. I’ve included Kevin as an addressee to this email. Please follow-up with him for any further discussion of this topic.

    Thank you!
    V/r,
    Jim

    Jim Newberger
    Airworthiness Certification, AIR-6C3
    Federal Aviation Administration
    202-267-1636 (W)


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    dgapilot, what is your take on this? WWhunter?

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    I haven’t been in contact with Kevin on this yet. I’ve been spending a lot of time trying to fight the “scrapped and destroyed” order.


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  34. #34
    algonquin's Avatar
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    Ok, silver lining for young pilots or old needing a little extra income, put a add in the classifieds here and Barnstormers offering to help keep everybody legal flying along where a medical is needed on board.

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