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Thread: 180/185/182 Tailcone Repair explained by Bushwheel Bill

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    SJ's Avatar
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    180/185/182 Tailcone Repair explained by Bushwheel Bill

    "Often Mistaken, but Never in Doubt"
    ------------------------------------------
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    hotrod180's Avatar
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    Great stuff, Steve, thanks for posting!
    I'd heard about that fix, but didn't properly understand what it consisted of.
    Bill does a good job explaining.
    Cessna Skywagon-- accept no substitute!
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    I have a hard time watching when reading is so much faster.

    I assume this is to fix looseness? You guys helped me immensely when I had to tackle one of these. Back then one could buy oversize AN bolts from Genuine, so we reamed all holes for oversize and wound up with a perfect tight tailcone. Even re-bushed the tailwheel stinger.

    Hardest thing was getting the control surfaces on and off. Most surprising thing was how few sheet metal screws hold the dorsal fin in place.

    Knowledge from this forum has saved us thousands of dollars. I must get off my dead ass and write SJ a check.

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    RaisedByWolves's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bob turner View Post
    I have a hard time watching when reading is so much faster.

    I assume this is to fix looseness? You guys helped me immensely when I had to tackle one of these. Back then one could buy oversize AN bolts from Genuine, so we reamed all holes for oversize and wound up with a perfect tight tailcone. Even re-bushed the tailwheel stinger.

    Hardest thing was getting the control surfaces on and off. Most surprising thing was how few sheet metal screws hold the dorsal fin in place.

    Knowledge from this forum has saved us thousands of dollars. I must get off my dead ass and write SJ a check.
    Itís to fix the cracked structure at the rear horizontal attach point thatís common on straight tail Cessna. The stringer extends forward with a bunch of rivets and is $5000 from Cessna. Service bulletin says to inspect every 500 hrs and bills kit is every 1000 hrs


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    Speedo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by RaisedByWolves View Post
    It’s to fix the cracked structure at the rear horizontal attach point that’s common on straight tail Cessna. The stringer extends forward with a bunch of rivets and is $5000 from Cessna. Service bulletin says to inspect every 500 hrs and bills kit is every 1000 hrs


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    I’m pretty sure he said 1500 hours, not 1000.
    Speedo
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    mike mcs repair's Avatar
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    and another thing to note, is this kit fixes BOTH SIDES...

    but the price for ONE Cessna hockey stick is to fix only ONE side plus labor....

    seems like a great deal to me....

    have replaced MANY, but they(hockey stick?) were cheap parts back then...

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    Gordon Misch's Avatar
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    Back then one could buy oversize AN bolts from Genuine
    Bob got any more info on that? I was wanting some oversize AN or MS bolts recently, but didn't find a source.

    I must get off my dead ass and write SJ a check.
    Easier than that - credit card works just fine - -. Never miss a chance to give Bob a rash. Unless I'm busy with Perry, that is.
    Gordon

    N4328M KTDO
    My SPOT: tinyurl.com/N4328M (case sensitive)

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    Charlie Longley's Avatar
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    That’s an excellent product! What’s the cost?

    Watched the end of the video it’s $3,000. Pretty cheap compared to new hockey sticks!
    Last edited by Charlie Longley; 02-12-2020 at 05:47 AM. Reason: Price
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    RaisedByWolves's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Speedo View Post
    Iím pretty sure he said 1500 hours, not 1000.
    My bad I watched it a couple days ago. Thanks


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    hotrod180's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Speedo View Post
    I’m pretty sure he said 1500 hours, not 1000.
    SEL 55-01 sez inspect every 5 years / 500 hours, this kit's ICA sez 10 years / 1500 hours.
    Cessna Skywagon-- accept no substitute!
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  11. #11
    SJ's Avatar
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    All the docs / STC info, etc is on: https://cessnarepairs.com

    sj
    "Often Mistaken, but Never in Doubt"
    ------------------------------------------

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    omg, can you talk any slower?

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    Quote Originally Posted by SJ View Post
    All the docs / STC info, etc is on: https://cessnarepairs.com

    sj
    work server blocked that as a malicious website

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    SJ's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 180_jeff View Post
    omg, can you talk any slower?
    Pilots are slow to learn...

    You can use the youtube settings feature at the bottom of any youtube video to double the speed of the video if you like. Easily solvable.

    sj
    "Often Mistaken, but Never in Doubt"
    ------------------------------------------
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    Quote Originally Posted by SJ View Post
    Pilots are slow to learn...

    You can use the youtube settings feature at the bottom of any youtube video to double the speed of the video if you like. Easily solvable.

    sj
    Cool feature! Just used it for the first time. 1.5X seems to be perfect for Bill. Thanks for pointing that feature out.
    Likes mike mcs repair liked this post

  16. #16
    Steve Pierce's Avatar
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    You just have to know Bill and you come to appreciate it.
    Steve Pierce

    Everybody is ignorant, only on different subjects.
    Will Rogers
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    I have nothing but admiration and appreciation for the Bills and McFarlanes of the world that keep these airplanes flying!
    Steve - are you the same Steve Pierce that has some tailwheel videos on youtube?
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    Eddie Foy's Avatar
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    Is SEL 55-01 mandatory for Part 91? I did it on my 69 180 with 12,000 hrs and found no cracks.
    "Put out my hand and touched the face of God!"

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    Eddie Foy's Avatar
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    One and the same with the Texabilly drawl.

    Quote Originally Posted by 180_jeff View Post
    Steve - are you the same Steve Pierce that has some tailwheel videos on youtube?
    "Put out my hand and touched the face of God!"

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    Quote Originally Posted by Eddie Foy View Post
    Is SEL 55-01 mandatory for Part 91? I did it on my 69 180 with 12,000 hrs and found no cracks.
    No AD (yet), so not mandatory for 91 guys. However, definitely need to do on the 180/182/185s due possibility of occurrence. I did the inspection with aid of a boroscope 18 mos ago or so and wasn't difficult.

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    Quote Originally Posted by 180_jeff View Post
    No AD (yet), so not mandatory for 91 guys. However, definitely need to do on the 180/182/185s due possibility of occurrence. I did the inspection with aid of a boroscope 18 mos ago or so and wasn't difficult.
    Were you able to access well enough to see without the ass-end dissection described in the Bulletin?
    Remember, These are the Good old Days!

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    I thought so. I followed the bulletin closely.

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    Just out of curiosity - what is the difference between Bill's kit and what Joe Dory is selling? Perhaps they are the same and Joe is a distributor. I don't know.

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    mike mcs repair's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SJ View Post
    You can use the youtube settings feature at the bottom of any youtube video to double the speed of the video if you like. Easily solvable.

    sj
    never noticed that setting before.... learn something new each day!

  25. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by mike mcs repair View Post
    never noticed that setting before.... learn something new each day!
    I've used it for years - especially great for tutorials where things are moving slowly (or english as a second language). 2X is about my max, 1.75 my standard

    Research says that while people can get the info at 3X, they comprehension usually goes way down...

    sj
    "Often Mistaken, but Never in Doubt"
    ------------------------------------------
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  26. #26
    Eddie Foy's Avatar
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    He must be a Proctologist!

    Quote Originally Posted by OLDCROWE View Post
    Were you able to access well enough to see without the ass-end dissection described in the Bulletin?
    "Put out my hand and touched the face of God!"

  27. #27
    Eddie Foy's Avatar
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    I had the same question.

    Quote Originally Posted by 180_jeff View Post
    Just out of curiosity - what is the difference between Bill's kit and what Joe Dory is selling? Perhaps they are the same and Joe is a distributor. I don't know.
    "Put out my hand and touched the face of God!"

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    Quote Originally Posted by 180_jeff View Post
    Just out of curiosity - what is the difference between Bill's kit and what Joe Dory is selling? Perhaps they are the same and Joe is a distributor. I don't know.
    I had the same question too then I realized they use the same phone number. So I deduced they are working together on this project.
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  29. #29
    aktango58's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 180_jeff View Post
    omg, can you talk any slower?
    Please don't: Some of us think slower than he talks, the pause and rewind work also
    I don't know where you've been me lad, but I see you won first Prize!
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    Quote Originally Posted by 180_jeff View Post
    No AD (yet), so not mandatory for 91 guys. However, definitely need to do on the 180/182/185s due possibility of occurrence. I did the inspection with aid of a boroscope 18 mos ago or so and wasn't difficult.
    Since this is now an AD and no longer just an SB does the QMI kit still take the inspection from 5 years or 500 hours to 10 years or 1500 hours?
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    Quote Originally Posted by BritishCubBloke View Post
    Since this is now an AD and no longer just an SB does the QMI kit still take the inspection from 5 years or 500 hours to 10 years or 1500 hours?
    That's a very good question.
    Seems like an official statement re an alternate means of compliance (AMOC) is needed to clarify this.
    Without an AMOC statement, I'd think the requirements of the AD would take precedence.
    Cessna Skywagon-- accept no substitute!

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    skywagon8a's Avatar
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    This is the Instructions for Continued Airworthiness for Bushwheel Bill's kit.
    https://c25a9cfa-f52a-4096-89b3-d5a2...2d406acca2.pdf

    It states: "After installation of this STC kit, inspection will not be required until cumulating 1500 flight hours or 10 years whichever comes first. After the initial inspection, inspections will be required every 500 flight hours or 5 years whichever comes first."

    This is his home page: https://www.cessnarepairs.com
    N1PA
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    Quote Originally Posted by skywagon8a View Post
    This is the Instructions for Continued Airworthiness for Bushwheel Bill's kit.
    https://c25a9cfa-f52a-4096-89b3-d5a2...2d406acca2.pdf
    It states: "After installation of this STC kit, inspection will not be required until cumulating 1500 flight hours or 10 years whichever comes first. After the initial inspection, inspections will be required every 500 flight hours or 5 years whichever comes first."
    Note the date on the ICA,
    it is after the Cessna service letter was issued,
    but before the FAA issued the AD.
    I think I would want clarification on this --
    like a written statement from either FAA or QMI stating that the initial recurring inspection is due in 1500 hours /10 years,
    NOT the 500 hours / 5 years as per the AD.
    Cessna Skywagon-- accept no substitute!

  34. #34
    skywagon8a's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by hotrod180 View Post
    Note the date on the ICA,
    it is after the Cessna service letter was issued,
    but before the FAA issued the AD.
    I think I would want clarification on this --
    like a written statement from either FAA or QMI stating that the initial recurring inspection is due in 1500 hours /10 years,
    NOT the 500 hours / 5 years as per the AD.
    I disagree.
    The airplane was modified with Bill's kit. Therefor the AD is not applicable, since the original Cessna parts to which the AD applies are no longer installed. The ICA describes the applicable inspection intervals for the modified airplane.
    N1PA

  35. #35
    Steve Pierce's Avatar
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    The AD trumps the STC. You gotta do all the other parts of the AD so obtaining the AMOC from the FAA is not worth it for only part of it. I talked to Bill at length last night. I started Bill down the AMOC path when they first started talking about making it an AD. He has decided it is not worth dealing with the FAA over.
    Steve Pierce

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  36. #36
    skywagon8a's Avatar
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    Only on that portion of the AD to which Bill's parts are not applicable.
    N1PA

  37. #37
    Steve Pierce's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by skywagon8a View Post
    Only on that portion of the AD to which Bill's parts are not applicable.
    I agree and wouldn't have issue with it but Bill's engineer and the FAA disagree. We know the problem, bureaucracy and common sense.
    Steve Pierce

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    Will Rogers
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    So it is still 5 years and 500 hours, even with the QMI parts?

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    Quote Originally Posted by BritishCubBloke View Post
    So it is still 5 years and 500 hours, even with the QMI parts?
    My question exactly...... Was going to get the kit, now I don't see the reason. SEL-55-01 was done in 2018. Am I missing something?

  40. #40
    Steve Pierce's Avatar
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    You install the QMI kit to fix the problem with the hockey stick whether you have it or you think you might later. I look at it as a better mouse trap, not a reason not to inspect and only a small part of the whole inspection anyway.
    Steve Pierce

    Everybody is ignorant, only on different subjects.
    Will Rogers
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