ADSB-Getting ready to bite someone in the butt
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fobjob
MEMBER
Salt Lake City, Utah
When I installed my mode S, I didn’t throw away my KT76....
The tail number being displayed is useful when you call them to coordinate your actions. I live within the 30 mile radius of KSLC, but outside of controlled airspace due to a mountain range putting the local airport area in a radar shaded zone, so the only local targets you see are adsb equipped.
The tail number being displayed is useful when you call them to coordinate your actions. I live within the 30 mile radius of KSLC, but outside of controlled airspace due to a mountain range putting the local airport area in a radar shaded zone, so the only local targets you see are adsb equipped.
To me, part of the answer might be "how far under" Would it be a few miles in or 5 from the center.
I would like to think that for airports only a few miles under they would provide exclusions or a notch the way some airports currently reside under a Class B. With them you are free to come and go, one direction and under a certain altitude.
mvivion
SPONSOR
Bozeman,MT
Theoretically speaking, that'd probably work. Who knows if or how the FAA would ever figure it out.....but any scenario where you were unfortunate to have a mishap at your home drome could result in FAA involvement.
The elephant in that room, though, is the fact that the FAA has apparently stated that intentional violation of the ADS-B rule will probably result in either revocation or suspension of your certificate.
Is it worth it?
MTV
My home airport has a part of the delta which is actually inside the Boston 30 mile ring. More than once Boston approach has called our tower requesting the tail number of the aircraft that just landed from the south. They will track non transponder aircraft to their destination if possible.
BC12D-4-85
SPONSOR
Fairbanks, AK.
If it weren't for all these electric gadgets you folks have installed Flightradar24 would be boring. Now I can follow a fellow pilot's pursuit of an instrument/commercial in California on my 'puter.
Gary
Gary
wireweinie
FOUNDER
Palmer, AK
Maybe a lawyer could address the legal issues, but I'm not convinced that the feds would prevail if they tried to suspend/revoke for not having it on in uncontrolled airspace. My arguement would be that they require the use in only in certain airspaces. How could it then be required to be operational outside of that designated airspace. But I'm not a lawyer (. . . insert jokes here . . . .)
Web
wireweinie
FOUNDER
Palmer, AK
Not buying it.
It's an obvious end around for 'required airspace'. I think it's a winnable argument but as it's against the faa, it's a bit like wrestling a greased pig (after a while you realize the pig is starting to enjoy it WAY to much).
Web
It's an obvious end around for 'required airspace'. I think it's a winnable argument but as it's against the faa, it's a bit like wrestling a greased pig (after a while you realize the pig is starting to enjoy it WAY to much).
Web
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Farmboy
MEMBER
Middlebury, VT
Thread tangent : Not sure it was this thread or another that this was discussed in, but on checking for a customer the other day I ran across a prime example of ADSB ghosting.
Now, it could be I’m wrong here, but based on what I normally see, these idents is the same aircraft ghosting.
As you see, formation-ish flight, only one N number, both Cape Air 402’s, and 200’-ish Alt discrepancy.
Transmitted from my FlightPhone on fingers...
Now, it could be I’m wrong here, but based on what I normally see, these idents is the same aircraft ghosting.
As you see, formation-ish flight, only one N number, both Cape Air 402’s, and 200’-ish Alt discrepancy.
Transmitted from my FlightPhone on fingers...
Attachments
mvivion
SPONSOR
Bozeman,MT
read the regulation, it’s actually quite clear and in plain English. I’m betting they’d win that one in a heartbeat. Remember, these are not criminal issues, and the FAA only has to prove you violated a reg. And no jury.
MTV
mvivion
SPONSOR
Bozeman,MT
What if you take off within the 30 nm arc at an non-towered field and then fly to another non-towered field - how are they going to know it was you unless they have a guy on the ground taking pictures?
Don’t forget, with administrative law you are guilty until you prove innocence as well. The deck is stacked against you.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
You need it to cross the border unless you do not have an electrical system.
mvivion
SPONSOR
Bozeman,MT
You do not need ADS-B to cross the northern US border. In fact, you can get a waiver to cross the US/Canada border without a transponder.
MTV
hotrod180
FRIEND
Port Townsend, WA
"Hello SnitchAir FBO, this is the FAA calling.
Did an airplane just land? What's the tail number?""
"yeah, it's a yellow cub, tail number N12345".
Seen & heard of this being done in years past for (usually flagrant) airspace violations.
Plenty of people would just as soon rat you out as lie and say "nope, didn't see anybody land".
And as far as suing the FAA about how the ADS-B on all the time reg isn't fair....good luck.
Pretty sure you'll run out of lawyer money before they do.
CenterHillAg
PATRON
Texas Coast
I’m sure we all have campfire stories that’ll never see the light of day to keep the feds finding out about them, but ADS-B isn’t one of those things I can see trying to go rogue on. As is, the regs seem to have all the bases covered and the penalties are severe. All it takes is some do-gooder turning you in for violating reg airspace, and FSDO inspectors are required to investigate every complaint.
The only reason I’d like ADS-B is the ability to fly to a parts supplier that’s 5 miles into the Mode C, but I’m not paying $2k for that convenience a couple times a year.
The only reason I’d like ADS-B is the ability to fly to a parts supplier that’s 5 miles into the Mode C, but I’m not paying $2k for that convenience a couple times a year.
txpacer
SPONSOR
Iowa Park, TX
I've seen approach controllers listen in on the local CTAF to get the tail number of a plane that clipped their airspace, then leave a number to call at the FBO. To be fair, it was for restricted area violations, but it shows how else they can track you.
Lesson learned here: if there's any doubt, go nordo.
Lesson learned here: if there's any doubt, go nordo.
bob turner
Registered User
Easier in Texas.
I have recounted this before, but I got tagged for carefully flying under class B, and not calling approach control.
I left one airport - controller told me to contact SoCal. I said no, I would maintain 1500' and contact my destination tower. Space between the deltas was maybe six miles.
My friendly tower said "Bob, when you get on the ground call this number." (They know me by name).
So I did. Controller said even though I was in constant contact with ATC, and even though I had guaranteed my altititude, he had stopped departures out of the local Marine base because he personally had not verified my altitude.
I went a little further up the ATC chain of command. A supervisor with J3 time in Texas told me not to worry about it - I was doing everything correctly.
Controllers here are pushing not only for all VFR aircraft to be in flight following mode, but to avoid airspace below class B unless a 1000' cushion can be maintained. I like flight following, but no longer use it locally because they vector me way, way off my course. My fuel is just as expensive as a practice ILS aircraft. And I know where they are, and avoid them all by myself.
I have recounted this before, but I got tagged for carefully flying under class B, and not calling approach control.
I left one airport - controller told me to contact SoCal. I said no, I would maintain 1500' and contact my destination tower. Space between the deltas was maybe six miles.
My friendly tower said "Bob, when you get on the ground call this number." (They know me by name).
So I did. Controller said even though I was in constant contact with ATC, and even though I had guaranteed my altititude, he had stopped departures out of the local Marine base because he personally had not verified my altitude.
I went a little further up the ATC chain of command. A supervisor with J3 time in Texas told me not to worry about it - I was doing everything correctly.
Controllers here are pushing not only for all VFR aircraft to be in flight following mode, but to avoid airspace below class B unless a 1000' cushion can be maintained. I like flight following, but no longer use it locally because they vector me way, way off my course. My fuel is just as expensive as a practice ILS aircraft. And I know where they are, and avoid them all by myself.
If you are using ATC for flight following, you aren’t operating on a clearance, unless they clear you into some airspace that requires a clearance. Now 91.123 says you need to follow clearances and instructions, but there is nothing that says you can’t cancel flight following. So the direct answer would be yes, cancel flight following and fly your desired route. I hate talking to ATC unless IFR, so I never use flight following.
Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
Back to my theoretical question - how does some 'do-gooder' on the ground know if you are equipped with ads tracking h/w? My understanding is even the class d towers do not have that information on their screens. And, if you operating from non-towered fields (but within the 30 nm arc) how is anyone going to know who you are?
