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Thread: Experimental 12 Build

  1. #41
    skywagon8a's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by pa12drvr View Post
    - FWIW, unless you really anticipate a need for the left-side door / access, I wouldn't put it in. Nothing particularly wrong with it, but I've used mine more to do stuff like replace battery, sweep out the floor, etc than any real substantive purpose.
    if you were a seaplane pilot you would find the two door version very useful. On wheels alone, I'll agree with you.
    N1PA

  2. #42

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    Quote Originally Posted by skywagon8a View Post
    if you were a seaplane pilot you would find the two door version very useful. On wheels alone, I'll agree with you.
    Absolutely, no disagreement whatsoever. I should have made that clear.
    Back In Alaska

  3. #43

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    Thank you for all this input! As far as the gap between aircraft and pilot ability, someone told me that a -12 will do 90% of what an-18 will do, and you really shouldn't be doing that last 10% anyway.
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  4. #44

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    We will be on floats for half the year, big tires for the other half.

  5. #45
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    Quote Originally Posted by skywagon8a View Post
    if you were a seaplane pilot you would find the two door version very useful. On wheels alone, I'll agree with you.
    Having had a -12 for 34 years with a single fold up right side door and now 10 years with current -12 I completely disagree. I LOVE having two doors, and I fly exclusively on wheels and skis although Stewart flew it a lot on floats.

    Reasons are access and ability to load unique size and shaped cargo. I leave hydraulic wheel ski pump in year round (on wheels with handle removed) and it’s on the floor on right side. I’d either have to remove and reinstall each season as its a bit in the way. I can be in and out of the left door in two seconds as flap handle is moved forward and out of the way. Loading to passengers in rear seat? Easy with 2 doors they don’t have to play “Twister” trying to get seated and buckled in. Weird loads, no problem as you can load with both doors open and finagle things in. I can load and carry a complete Honda 90 3-wheeler in one load. No way that’s going in with a single door. I’ve carried shower stalls, long shaft outboards and other big/bulky weird stuff. All which is strapped down to cargo rings that are very easy to access with both doors open. I challenge you to find anyone that has really worked both a single door and double PA-12 or PA-14 who would say it’s not worth it on wheels or skis. YMMV.

    Thank you Stewart and Mike MCS (Skup) for doing all the mods of doors, removable cross-bars, seats, cargo rings and interior to make it such a versatile and capable -12.


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  6. #46

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    My favorite part of the full double door is the view it provides from the back seat. With the shape of the -12 airframe the plex on both sides allows the rear seater to see forward, down, and sideways. My new Cub mimics that detail without the left side door. Plex is heavier than fabric but the open feel and great visibility is worth every ounce.
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  7. #47
    skywagon8a's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by pa12drvr View Post
    - FWIW, unless you really anticipate a need for the left-side door / access, I wouldn't put it in. Nothing particularly wrong with it, but I've used mine more to do stuff like replace battery, sweep out the floor, etc than any real substantive purpose.
    Quote Originally Posted by skywagon8a View Post
    if you were a seaplane pilot you would find the two door version very useful. On wheels alone, I'll agree with you.
    Quote Originally Posted by Scooter7779h View Post
    Having had a -12 for 34 years with a single fold up right side door and now 10 years with current -12 I completely disagree. I LOVE having two doors, and I fly exclusively on wheels and skis although Stewart flew it a lot on floats.
    Like pa12drvr said, "Nothing particularly wrong with it" which is what I am agreeing with. My Cub has two doors by choice.
    N1PA

  8. #48

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    If you do two doors in a -12 you need to think about how to introduce ventilation air. It wouldn’t be hard to make an opening window in a seaplane door but I’ve never seen one done. The choice for high quality vents is very limited. Something similar to a Cessna fresh air door could be handy. Pressurize the heat ducts with cool air. That could pay dividends for winter heat, too, like in a Cessna. Hmm, that could work.

    Another “should be” simple vent solution would be to add Cessna-style vent tubes in the wing roots fed by a small intake hole in the leading edge. I need to look into doing that myself.
    Last edited by stewartb; 09-14-2021 at 07:42 AM.

  9. #49

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    I think the (2nd) Original Poster has got all the information needed on the left door ....but FWIW, I guess that my thought as a non-seaplane user is that the utility needs to be compared to the weight penalty. I don't know what the weight comparison is for door vs. fabric and, certainly in my case, the easiest place to reduce weight is in the pilot's seat rather than anywhere else.

    With the 2nd OP's higher GW, the weight savings / penalty of the left hand door are probably more than offset by the utility, but, like everything else, best to do that evaluation before the build is 75% or more complete.
    Back In Alaska
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