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Thread: Power flow / Leading Edge or Sutton or Atlee Dodge HD + Univair stacks?

  1. #1

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    Power flow / Leading Edge or Sutton or Atlee Dodge HD + Univair stacks?

    Looks like I need a new exhaust. Mine has multiple cracks and bowed out flanges. It has been welded a number of times.

    I have a PA18-150, 160HP conversion.

    Any advice / thoughts on what to go for would be appreciated.

    Cheers,

    David

  2. #2

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    I have the Dodge hot rod muffler. No baffle AD to worry about. bolts right on without cowl mods. It is load but has some performance increase on a stock motor. Lower CHT climb out.
    DENNY
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  3. #3
    RaisedByWolves's Avatar
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    I had the atlee hotrod for while until the header cracked, and i put the sutton on. The sutton is great, gets the muffler away from the firewall, no more spilling oil from the filter and the whole system is new
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  4. #4

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    I’ve had an A. Dodge hotrod, Leading Edge and now a Sutton. All are better than the original. I’m not sure there’s enough performance difference between the three for one to stand out. If your exhaust pipes are in good shape, the Atlee muffler is an easy option. If you’re wanting to replace the whole exhaust system then the other two are better options. The LEES is heavy but advertises hp gains and the Sutton is dead nuts simple, lighter and gets the hot muffler off the firewall. You will have to cut a new hole in your bottom cowling with the Sutton.
    Thanks TCE, BritishCubBloke thanked for this post

  5. #5

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    -30 and still had good cabin heat with a Hot Rod muffler. If I was down south I might prefer the Sutton.
    DENNY
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  6. #6

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    I’m happy with the Sutton. Good quality, little lighter, and simple. I had a small clearance issue with the lower left cowl latch bump and muffler shroud cap on mine (I have a Rupert lower cowl stc, so may not apply to your application). There is only one external air duct to muffler shroud source, the other scat hose connection is attached to the shroud cap area on the left side of the muffler and has no external air pressure which I find causes it to be less effective. The result is a choice of a weak cabin heat or weak carb heat depending on which source you attach your scat hose to. I’m happy overall and feel it’s a good value if you need to replace the whole exhaust.

  7. #7
    windy's Avatar
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    I put the Leading Edge exhaust on my O-320. I couldn’t tell the difference in power, if there was any. The worst part about the LE exhaust is that the muffler is on the back of the engine, right next to the firewall, which made the cockpit and my feet even hotter in the summer.


    Sent from my iPhone using SuperCub.Org

  8. #8
    mike mcs repair's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by WA L16 View Post
    ...There is only one external air duct to muffler shroud source, the other scat hose connection is attached to the shroud cap area on the left side of the muffler and has no external air pressure which I find causes it to be less effective. The result is a choice of a weak cabin heat or weak carb heat depending on which source you attach your scat hose to. ..
    ?????????????????
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  9. #9
    Bearhawk Builder's Avatar
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    I have the Sutton, 160 hp Works well freeing up that space behind the motor. The heat is really good, better than I expected flying around so far in the teens. Scat up to the right front baffle floor.
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  10. #10

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    What are you confused about Mike? This issue with Sutton exhausts (and possible solutions) has been discussed on supercub.org before. For those interested, look up “Sutton exhaust heat robber.” Supercub.org member S2D posted some nice pictures of a solution for increased flow because, in his own words “Since Sutton's carb heat is suction demand only, it would be hard to tee into the hose and get any heat out.” The picture on the thread might do it justice, or you’ll have to go look at (or operate an aircraft equipped with a sutton) for yourself and you’ll be able to see what is being discussed.

  11. #11
    Bill Rusk's Avatar
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    I have the Sutton with the extra heat material welded in, I think they call it the "Arctic" version (but I can't find that on their website) and I can tell you it will melt your boot if you put it at the outlet. It is a heat MONSTER. I'm pretty sure if you ask for the Arctic version they can and will do it. Doc Randy recently put one in his cub but was not getting the heat output he expected. I think it is due to the air inlet part not getting enough air and pressure. Mine will absolutely blow you out of the cockpit. All I do is crack it just a small amount. Anymore than that and it becomes a sweatbox in about 1 minute.

    I am very pleased with the Sutton exhaust.

    Bill
    Very Blessed.

  12. #12

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    A friend had a sutton put on his cub it had poor heat output until a small scoop was added into the shroud input. He said it now makes good cabin heat, I have not asked about carb heat yet.
    DENNY
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  13. #13
    mike mcs repair's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bill Rusk View Post
    I think it is due to the air inlet part not getting enough air and pressure. Mine will absolutely blow you out of the cockpit. All I do is crack it just a small amount. Anymore than that and it becomes a sweatbox in about 1 minute.

    Bill
    only had one customer want one, ever... installed one 7 years ago, I followed the instructions, to add the air inlet in oil cooler scoop, as others had mentioned is required...

    assume it worked well..

    maybe WA L16 didn't???

  14. #14

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    Bill, I am unfamiliar with the “arctic” version factory fix. Do you have any pictures of it on your build thread, and do you by chance know if it is an option for certified cubs or only available for non certified applications?

    On the version of the Sutton I have, there is no scoop (nor have I fabricated one) for the left side muffler cap so it has poor pressure and thus reduced effect. If the cabin heat hose is secured to the shroud with the external air positive pressure hose, the cabin heater is very effective and I’ve never had any complaints about it’s ability to keep me warm.

  15. #15
    aktango58's Avatar
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    Hot rod (Atlee's) give my 150 hp 25 more RPMs over stock. Lots of heat on the firewall, doing long day surveys I just went to wearing shorts and surf shoes, as I just got so hot I could not handle it.

    If I were doing an exhaust change today I would go Sutton. Weight and ease of working on the engine, and less heat on the firewall.

    Seems like a great option.
    I don't know where you've been me lad, but I see you won first Prize!

  16. #16
    Olibuilt's Avatar
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    I had a Sutton exhaust on my previous plane. Light, simple and very effective. Cabin heat was enough to melt my boots.


    I now plan upgrading my O-360 to 200+ hp. Do you think the Sutton will steal some hp compare to my double crossover straight pipe no mufflers?

  17. #17
    Bearhawk Builder's Avatar
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    Mine is certified with the ‘arctic’ version. Welded nubs to increase surface area. Give them a call, they have options not shown on the website.

  18. #18
    Steve Pierce's Avatar
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    They are called "heat ribbons", $100 option. https://www.shortwingpipers.org/foru...Bronze-bushing
    If you install the rear mounted oil cooler you can install the heater scoop in the old oil cooler scoop. If you retain the front mounted oil cooler they send you a pick-up that attaches to the front right baffle.
    Click image for larger version. 

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    Sounds like the issue some are having is with carb heat and lack of air flow when it is applied not cabin heat. I have installed quite a few Sutton exhaust systems including my own and have not had any issues with carb or cabin heat.
    Steve Pierce

    Everybody is ignorant, only on different subjects.
    Will Rogers
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  19. #19

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    Hi Denny,

    Looking at replacing the stock muffler with the hot rod muffler. How do you like it? I hear they are loud? Is it that much louder than stock to be bothersome? Wanting to squeeze all the rpm out of my 150 I can.
    Thanks

  20. #20

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    The noise does not bother me but I used to ride a sportster with straight pipes. I also have noise canceling headsets so I don't notice it much. My friends say they can tell it is me from a mile away just from the noise compared to other cubs. I have had guides tell me that the bears will spook sooner with a Hot Rod exhaust. So ya you can tell the difference. I have never had anyone complain about the extra noise and it is a pretty easy upgrade. You may need to trim the seaplane lip a bit. Be careful when you attach the exhaust pipe support clamp/rod. Go slow and make sure you have no extra binding pressure on the clamp/rod or the clamp will break.
    DENNY

  21. #21
    TurboBeaver's Avatar
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    Denny,
    Lots of us ran Atlees Hot Rod in Alaska and like you say they have their own distinct sound, very recognizable. I have a friend here in Maine that was running a Leading Edge exhaust that he ordered with no baffles , it sounded almost identical to Atlees " hot rod". I seriously doubt that ANY
    of these exhaust will even come close to producing the HP that the Vetterman's system can.
    A former member posted this a few years back,
    "There is a dramatic effect going from the big can-type exhaust to a free flowing system like the Vetterman, mainly from reduced back pressure, but also from a mild scavenging effect. The 4-pipe Vetterman does a better job of scavenging but the improvement is slight compared to the gains made going to their cross-over system. "
    Plus who doesn't like the sound of dual exhaust! Lol
    Fly safe
    E



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