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Thread: Garmin's got new stuff out.

  1. #1
    Farmboy's Avatar
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    Garmin's got new stuff out.

    In addition to the NXi series just released, the hot item is the new GI 275.... 3.125" round gauges to swap into your panel.

    Very impressive, super high resolution, works with older autopilots, certified, etc etc. They are pricey no doubt, but full featured.
    SJ needs a new panel in the 180, right?

    Click image for larger version. 

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    https://buy.garmin.com/en-US/US/p/719027#overview

  2. #2
    RaisedByWolves's Avatar
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    Don’t see the approved model list anywhere?


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

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    Click image for larger version. 

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    And pretty much (or all) every Cessna ever built.

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  4. #4
    Farmboy's Avatar
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    Missed the -12 earlier.

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  5. #5

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    4 grand! toys only for the rich. The g5 is half what this new one is.. better scoop up your g5 before they quit making them

  6. #6
    behindpropellers's Avatar
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    Blahhhh....

    What happens when Garmin is the only player. We need uavonix, electronics international, jpi, and others.
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  7. #7
    SJ's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by supercub1999 View Post
    4 grand! toys only for the rich. The g5 is half what this new one is.. better scoop up your g5 before they quit making them
    The G5 has also half or less the capability. I do agree the stuff is expensive and I wish it were a lot cheaper!

    sj
    "Often Mistaken, but Never in Doubt"
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    Gordon Misch's Avatar
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    It'll be interesting to see what Dynon does...
    Gordon

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  9. #9
    www.SkupTech.com mike mcs repair's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SJ View Post
    The G5 has also half or less the capability. I do agree the stuff is expensive and I wish it were a lot cheaper!

    sj
    for decades I always figured maybe ~$30k to do a new panel with all the new parts/gauges..... ECI/JPI.....

    so in reality, for all the capability these newer systems incorporate into them, it's probably getting cheaper & lighter(no Vac system).....

    not saying you need all that capability ....

  10. #10
    wireweinie's Avatar
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    Not sure about the cheaper, but definitely lighter. All that electrical stuff, time to start thinking about a back up battery system to keep it on line during an electrical emergency.

    Web
    Life's tough . . . wear a cup.

  11. #11
    musket's Avatar
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    That's nice. Will it be obsolete by the end of this year or the first half of next year?
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    18180's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by musket View Post
    That's nice. Will it be obsolete by the end of this year or the first half of next year?
    Jeez. Just finishing up Dual G5 installs with a new panel on account I wanted flush mount. Heavy sigh...


  13. #13
    CenterHillAg's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by musket View Post
    That's nice. Will it be obsolete by the end of this year or the first half of next year?
    It’s a legitimate point. Older radios and avionics certainly don’t add to a planes value, but they don’t seem to be a huge drag on the purchase price either, it’s way down the list of things that concern me at least. What will all these glass panels look like in 20-30 years? The technology is impressive and I wouldn’t mind having it, but with the rapid advancement in tech, will a glass panel installed today be a big detriment to a planes value in 15 years?
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  14. #14
    mvivion's Avatar
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    For the price of two of these things, you could buy a 7 inch Dynon PFD and have change. And a display old eyes can actually see.

    MTV

  15. #15
    cubdriver2's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by musket View Post
    That's nice. Will it be obsolete by the end of this year or the first half of next year?
    I still get excited when a new sectional comes out and has a new tower that's been added to help me navigate at 300' agl

    Glenn
    "Optimism is going after Moby Dick in a rowboat and taking the tartar sauce with you!"

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    Quote Originally Posted by wireweinie View Post
    Not sure about the cheaper, but definitely lighter. All that electrical stuff, time to start thinking about a back up battery system to keep it on line during an electrical emergency.

    Web
    Can you actually have an electrical emergency in a cub? I think the check list would read EFIS failure -- look out window and carry on

  17. #17

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    Quote Originally Posted by wireweinie View Post
    Not sure about the cheaper, but definitely lighter. All that electrical stuff, time to start thinking about a back up battery system to keep it on line during an electrical emergency.

    Web
    Looks like 60 minutes optional backup

  18. #18
    skywagon8a's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 46 Cub View Post
    Looks like 60 minutes optional backup
    Not enough for the places where we go in the back country. Enough to keep the FAA happy though.
    Also TOO MUCH STUFF in a small instrument make for more intense concentration at a time when you need to be able to relax to fly safely.
    Last edited by skywagon8a; 01-16-2020 at 06:36 AM.
    N1PA
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  19. #19

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    Quote Originally Posted by SJ View Post
    The G5 has also half or less the capability. I do agree the stuff is expensive and I wish it were a lot cheaper!

    sj
    The problem is you gotta buy 3 or more of them to get all those capabilities, 15 grand.. lost my interest with 4 grand price tag...
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  20. #20
    RVBottomly's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by supercub1999 View Post
    The problem is you gotta buy 3 or more of them to get all those capabilities, 15 grand.. lost my interest with 4 grand price tag...
    I get the flush mount retrofit idea, but wouldn't a g3x do pretty much the same thing as 3 of those?



    Sent from my SM-J320V using SuperCub.Org mobile app

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    Quote Originally Posted by skywagon8a View Post
    Not enough for the places where we go in the back country. Enough to keep the FAA happy though.
    Also TOO MUCH STUFF in a small instrument make for more intense concentration at a time when you need to be able to relax to fly safely.
    I'd be interested in a pirep from a bumpy day with a pilot wearing tri-foculs. I had to turn off some stuff on my Aspen due to overload and that screen due to overcrowding in the width of the display.
    Remember, These are the Good old Days!
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  22. #22
    wireweinie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by cub12 View Post
    Can you actually have an electrical emergency in a cub? I think the check list would read EFIS failure -- look out window and carry on
    Possibly for nav. But what about engine instruments? Also, I agree with Skywagon, 1 hour is not enough backup time. Backup power needs to hold out as long as the fuel load.

    Web
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    Quote Originally Posted by RVBottomly View Post
    I get the flush mount retrofit idea, but wouldn't a g3x do pretty much the same thing as 3 of those?
    I do not know what a g3x is, lost interest in any hi tech stuff when the faa decided to not giveashit about the average working man, they dont care about the ga pilot one bit. They say its fine and dandy to let nice inexpensive highly capable avionics be installed in some planes, but not others... its horseshit! The experimental pilots are 10 times safer with the inexpensive avionics, and certified are stuck with old crap because we cant afford the paperwork required to install the same avionics the experimental guys can use for one quarter the money. Its nothing but nuts, dangerous to limit certified pilots to old junk avionics and let other ga pilots use affordable and much safer avionics. I wonder how many families would be alive today instead of six feet under because they were stuck with old avionics
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  24. #24
    behindpropellers's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by supercub1999 View Post
    I do not know what a g3x is, lost interest in any hi tech stuff when the faa decided to not giveashit about the average working man, they dont care about the ga pilot one bit. They say its fine and dandy to let nice inexpensive highly capable avionics be installed in some planes, but not others... its horseshit! The experimental pilots are 10 times safer with the inexpensive avionics, and certified are stuck with old crap because we cant afford the paperwork required to install the same avionics the experimental guys can use for one quarter the money. Its nothing but nuts, dangerous to limit certified pilots to old junk avionics and let other ga pilots use affordable and much safer avionics. I wonder how many families would be alive today instead of six feet under because they were stuck with old avionics
    I don't understand you comments. The FAA has relaxed quite a bit on safety enhancing devices. As far as your comments go: It is expensive and time consuming to develop and build this stuff. Test it for vibration. Test it for EMI. Test it for thermal. Test the software. Test every button press sequence to make sure it doesn't make your software crash. Build the elctromechanical assemblies. Deal with end of life on electronic components. Sorry, your avionics are not untested chinese junk you buy on amazon.
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  25. #25
    wireweinie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by supercub1999 View Post
    I do not know what a g3x is, lost interest in any hi tech stuff when the faa decided to not giveashit about the average working man, they dont care about the ga pilot one bit. They say its fine and dandy to let nice inexpensive highly capable avionics be installed in some planes, but not others... its horseshit! The experimental pilots are 10 times safer with the inexpensive avionics, and certified are stuck with old crap because we cant afford the paperwork required to install the same avionics the experimental guys can use for one quarter the money. Its nothing but nuts, dangerous to limit certified pilots to old junk avionics and let other ga pilots use affordable and much safer avionics. I wonder how many families would be alive today instead of six feet under because they were stuck with old avionics
    As long as you have all type certificate required instruments installed, it's legal to install the 'other stuff'. After all, it's for reference only, right?

    Web
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  26. #26
    skywagon8a's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by OLDCROWE View Post
    I'd be interested in a pirep from a bumpy day with a pilot wearing tri-foculs. I had to turn off some stuff on my Aspen due to overload and that screen due to overcrowding in the width of the display.
    How would you like to be hand flying this down to 200-1/2 because it was too rough for the autopilot to handle? 50 minutes after having the alternator fail, then experiencing a strong wind shear at 300 feet? In the rain? At night?

    This instrument is an electronics engineer's wet dream.
    N1PA
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  27. #27
    Gordon Misch's Avatar
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    Haha! Yeah, I'm not so highly experienced as a lot of guys, but to gather some info I want to glance at an instrument - not study its "fine-print". On the other hand everything is in one place, so maybe configured how one wants and with some practice it might be really great.
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  28. #28
    hotrod180's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by supercub1999 View Post
    4 grand! toys only for the rich. The g5 is half what this new one is.. better scoop up your g5 before they quit making them

    https://generalaviationnews.com/2020/01/15/new-garmin-gi-275-replaces-several-legacy-flight-instruments/?utm_source=General+Aviation+News&utm_campaign=ddf cd5d3a0-TPOA-20200116&utm_medium=email&utm_term=0_8917678115-ddfcd5d3a0-373728749

    "Prices:

    • Attitude Indicator: $3,995
    • HSI: $4,295
    • CDI: $3,195
    • MFD: $3,195
    • EIS: $5,295"


    Totals up to $20K. Whew!!




    Cessna Skywagon-- accept no substitute!
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    I've always thought the EI CGR-30P has a nice look to it, the way it's laid out, operates, etc (haven't used one myself however). A -30P w/probes goes for $3,600'ish, according to the EI website.

    It's a big price jump from $3,600 to $5,295 for something that appears very similar.

  30. #30

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    Quote Originally Posted by skywagon8a View Post
    How would you like to be hand flying this down to 200-1/2 because it was too rough for the autopilot to handle? 50 minutes after having the alternator fail, then experiencing a strong wind shear at 300 feet? In the rain? At night?

    This instrument is an electronics engineer's wet dream.
    Uhh,, sometime after that when your battery died, be happy for that little tiny hard to see instrument with 60 minutes left??
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  31. #31

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    Garmin instruments use bluetooth to share information with other devices, like iPads. These new instruments will allow an owner to easily retrofit superior instruments without remodeling the panel and will provide the option to display that certified information on an iPad. So essentially the owner can have G3X appearance with less expense and labor. Or they can use the 3-1/8 displays.

    As a G3X user I can report that the Garmin info display of the artificial horizon that includes the airspeed and altitude tapes becomes so intuitive that going back to steam gauges is a real step backwards. Both styles do the job but the glass display does it better.
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  32. #32
    hotrod180's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by wireweinie View Post
    As long as you have all type certificate required instruments installed, it's legal to install the 'other stuff'. After all, it's for reference only, right?
    Web
    I'd like to hear this position expanded on.
    I installed a G5 in my C180 a few years ago,
    per the FAA policy statement.
    I asked my IA buddy who did the paperwork for me on that one
    about installing a "non-approved" multi-channel CHT instrument in addition to the stock, required single-point CHT gauge,
    and his take was that it had to have a PMA or some other approval--
    even if it wasn't installed as a replacement for a primary gauge.
    Cessna Skywagon-- accept no substitute!

  33. #33
    behindpropellers's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by hotrod180 View Post
    I'd like to hear this position expanded on.
    I installed a G5 in my C180 a few years ago,
    per the FAA policy statement.
    I asked my IA buddy who did the paperwork for me on that one
    about installing a "non-approved" multi-channel CHT instrument in addition to the stock, required single-point CHT gauge,
    and his take was that it had to have a PMA or some other approval--
    even if it wasn't installed as a replacement for a primary gauge.
    PMA - Approval to manufacture a part.

    TSO - Broad approval that an article meets requirements to be installed in a product (airplane)

    So.... I can see saying an install is minor if it meets TSO standards or other approval. But if you go with a broad "I can install anything" essentially says you can put a microwave oven in your panel if it will fit and you can power it.... Which will likely cause EMI issues and make your radios not work while you are cooking your inflight meal.

    Tim

  34. #34
    wireweinie's Avatar
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    The type certificate requirements are non arguable. They must be installed

    Show me, in CAR 3, where any other instrument panel item requires an 'approval'. As for the physical install, if it does not meet the criteria in Appendix A for a major mod, it IS a minor installation. I.e., if you don't cut/weld structure to install it, it does not interface or interfere with a required system, and does not REPLACE a required item, it's a minor.

    You can add to a panel with a 'non approved' item but you cannot use that same item to replace something required by the type certificated.

    Web
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    My little Dynon horizon and my 396 makes me IFR capable in my Tcraft. I have had to prove it many times.

    Jim

  36. #36

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    Quote Originally Posted by behindpropellers View Post
    PMA - Approval to manufacture a part.

    TSO - Broad approval that an article meets requirements to be installed in a product (airplane)

    So.... I can see saying an install is minor if it meets TSO standards or other approval. But if you go with a broad "I can install anything" essentially says you can put a microwave oven in your panel if it will fit and you can power it.... Which will likely cause EMI issues and make your radios not work while you are cooking your inflight meal.

    Tim
    Not quite!

    PMA- Design, manufacturing, and installation (only those make models listed) approval. Some PMA parts are for specific STC installation only.

    TSO- Design and manufacturing approval ONLY. Installation approval must be obtained prior to installation. In many cases, one TSO item may be substituted for a like TSO item based on form fit and function. If a given TSO item was never installed in a given make model airplane by the original TC holder, then installation approval may be required by the modifier.

    The TSO concept goes back to the appliance Type Certificates back in the 30s and early 40s. Read through the old CAR 15 to get an idea of where it came from and how it has evolved.


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    Quote Originally Posted by TcraftF21 View Post
    My little Dynon horizon and my 396 makes me IFR capable in my Tcraft. I have had to prove it many times.

    Jim
    Can you explain that one to me? Or are you making a difference between IFR capable and IFR legal? I have a 495 and an attitude indicator but am not IFR legal, though I would trust those instruments if I ever got myself into IIMC.

  38. #38
    Gordon Misch's Avatar
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    I recall studying the regs in detail when I was re-doing my -12 ten years ago. And I determined that "IFR certified" and "IFR legal" are two different things. I determined that I can be "IFR legal" in my -12, using VOR and ILS, a certified horizon, etc, but "can't" rely on the GPS stuff from Garmin Pilot.
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  39. #39
    hotrod180's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by dgapilot View Post
    ..PMA- Design, manufacturing, and installation (only those make models listed) approval. ….
    I don't agree. PMA = Parts Manufacture Authority. My take is that this is for production only.
    For example, not long ago uAvionix had to wait quite a while for the PMA for their Tailbeacon.
    Once they got that, they could manufacture the units, but they didn't sell or ship any until they had the STC for installation of same.
    Cessna Skywagon-- accept no substitute!

  40. #40

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    Quote Originally Posted by hotrod180 View Post
    I don't agree. PMA = Parts Manufacture Authority. My take is that this is for production only.
    For example, not long ago uAvionix had to wait quite a while for the PMA for their Tailbeacon.
    Once they got that, they could manufacture the units, but they didn't sell or ship any until they had the STC for installation of same.
    Suggest you read Part 21 Subpart K, and specifically 21.303(a)(1).

    Uavionix didn’t have PMA on their tail beacon, they have TSOA for tailbeacon.


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