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Super cub landing air speeds

womblesd

Registered User
O’Fallon, MO
Just curious what airspeeds you all are flying your super cubs on base, long and short final.
 
Just curious what airspeeds you all are flying your super cubs on base, long and short final.
Find the nearest qualified Super Cub instructor and sign up for some type training. You’ll enjoy it and it’s the safest way to get the numbers you’re looking for.
 
Cover the airspeed indicator and start flying by looking out the window(s). The airplane will know the correct speed.
 
Simple questions are sometimes hard to get answers to. ;)

I can tell you my speeds but it isn't a typical Cub. I'd like to hear what the standard Cub guys use, too. My speeds that matter are 40-45 for adding flaps and <25 at touchdown. Above 45 the flap pull is too hard and above 25 in ground effect I can't lower the tail without climbing. What happens in the middle depends on conditions and the lay of the land.
 
go up to altitude and put your aircraft in slow flight, and get comfortable flying it just above a stall and in different configurations and fly a couple to a landing. indicated airspeeds vary per aircraft . best not to use someone elses thinking you are totally safe if you don't have a feel for your airplane. (most of us don't look anymore anyways)
 
I’ve already been up with the instructor, however I feel he had me fly at to high of airspeed, causing plane to float a ways before settling. I’m interested in learning approach speeds that other pilots have found to be comfortable
 
Keep it simple. If the airspeed indicator sort of works, two monkeys up, 60ish mph w/ a notch of flaps on base, low 50s short final with all the flaps. You aren’t slow enough until you feel some sink. Then add a little power to arrest sink.....as you noticed, nobody that flys a cub much uses indicated air speeds. It’s more of a quick reference for certain flight regimes (ie. am I slow enough to put a notch of flap in)
 
I’ve already been up with the instructor, however I feel he had me fly at to high of airspeed, causing plane to float a ways before settling. I’m interested in learning approach speeds that other pilots have found to be comfortable

S2D is spot on. You learn what works flying on the edge up high. Once your comfortable flying around with the stick getting limp occasionally you can polish that feel close to the ground

Glenn
 
I’ve already been up with the instructor, however I feel he had me fly at to high of airspeed, causing plane to float a ways before settling. I’m interested in learning approach speeds that other pilots have found to be comfortable
In that case follow S2D's advise in post #5. Tell your instructor to do the same thing since he/she obviously doesn't know either.
 
Absolutely.. go get some altitude and get comfortable down slow. It will 'talk' to you plenty through the stick. Learn what it does slow, and too slow. I've got a rear seat cushion that could really use a cut out for the stick... HOWEVER... I've learned that if I'm using that last 1.5 inches of the elevator travel.. I better be DAMN close to the ground. That little but of cushion squish required is a GREAT warning indicator.

Learn your plane.. up high, with an instructor that has supercub experience.

JP
 
Sounds like a lot of resistance to a simple question. I agree that once in tune with the plane I don't need to look but that doesn't mean I don't know. I look occasionally to see how different setups impact landing speed and feel. I definitely pay attention in swirling winds. I guess I could cover the airspeed indicator. Hell, maybe just take it out? It'd be easier to go full Zen and just close my eyes.

Womblesd, I'd say you already know you're too fast. That usually is a product of coming in too shallow. Try making your final a little steeper. Use the old trick to put the threshold in view over the nose and keep it in that position to the ground. You'll work it out.

Happy New Year. Welcome to Cub flying!
 
S2D gave excellent advice. The problem with Cub airspeed indications is that airspeed accuracies in Cubs is all over the place. Lots of errors, tweaked pitot tube, etc. So, what works in one Cub may not even be in the ball park in another.

One of the true beauties of that Cub wing is that it really talks to you. As S2D suggested, go to altitude and put the airplane through its paces in TRUE slow flight. I define that as a speed suchat if I increase pitch, bank thus increase angle of attack, the plane will stall. Once there, learn to maneuver the plane, at that condition. That’ll mean using pitch and power to prevent the stall, but just barely.

After you’ve done this a while, look at your airspeed instrument. Many I’ve flown will be glued to the zero stop.

Now that you’ve established at altitude what the touchdown “condition” should be, add a few knots for Mom for threshold speed, a few more for Grandma on final, etc. throughout the pattern.

Almost every pilot I’ve flown with in Cubs is flying them too fast.

Do your altitude work first in true slow flight, preferably with a god cub instructor. Then the rest will sort out proportionally.

MTV
 
Just curious what airspeeds you all are flying your super cubs on base, long and short final.
Just curious, how much power are you using on base, long and short final? Try it with the throttle closed and adjust the pattern size to suit. It is easier to control your speed if you are not depending on power to assist you.
 
I went with an instructor some time back on a biennial in his cub (not my -12)....he had a kind of structured approach: XX mph on downwind near base, X mph on base, x mph on final to threshold. While I'm sure it was my shortcomings and not the different plane, I just couldn't make it work at all, landed long and/or fast several times trying to chase the dictated airspeed. When I asked if I could just fly without the airspeed constraints, even volunteering to cover the airspeed indicator, problem solved.

For my -12, which does not have an unduly precise airspeed indicator (for some reason, it doesn't even work over 90 mph! :)), if I'm not on an extended final for some reason, I try to be at about 35 indicated turning final....I suspect the "35" is "guidance only" as regards actual speed; after that base-final turn, I'll add final flaps in due course and fly the wing and remaining energy down to touchdown...no reference to airspeed, although (barring an unusual landing), at close to touchdown, the airspeed indicator is usually bouncing between 0 - 25 or so with enough oscillation to be meaningless.
 
Also.... You should be able to nail your speeds for downwind, base, and final. Think of your downwind as the foundation for your landing. If you don't build on a good foundation, everything falls apart.

Tim
 
One thing I would advise is spin training. You are most not likely going to feel comfortable getting a cub real slow if you are not comfortable with getting into and out of a spin. As the others have said airspeed varies between cubs as does the performance. Most properly rigged cubs will fly below 40 mph in ground effect with no problem, so if you airspeed stops at 40 it is just a general guide. Read Stick and Rudder, spend a lot of time up high in slow flight as the others have mentioned. As mike said most people land their cubs much faster than needed, not a big deal depending on the mission. Getting a cub real slow takes a lot of practice and it is easy to get into bad habits like dragging it in, diving for the runway, landing tail first. You will feel it when its right, but don't be surprised if it takes several hundred landings or a few years to get it right consistently. Power on landing should be slower than power off know how to do both. For now trim for airspeed.
DENNY
 
I’ve already been up with the instructor, however I feel he had me fly at to high of airspeed, causing plane to float a ways before settling. I’m interested in learning approach speeds that other pilots have found to be comfortable
Not uncommon to see pilots of all sorts, including instructors, flying the aircraft too fast. Continuous flying from long runways contributes to this habit.
 
I’ve already been up with the instructor, however I feel he had me fly at to high of airspeed, causing plane to float a ways before settling. I’m interested in learning approach speeds that other pilots have found to be comfortable

After you do what S2D recommended, get comfortable in slow flight, in all slow configurations. Practice that slow flight decent up high using a distant road for an imaginary runway. These a great exercise that worked for me when S2D suggested them to the same basic question I posted maybe 13-15 years ago.

THEN

So if it floated a ways you're likely fast but why? I'd suggest that once you have confirmed you're not carrying anything more than a smidge of power over the fence and in the flare, and if you're still floating then start by easing down on the speeds you have been using. Say if you were mid-field at 75, try 70, if base was 70 try 65, and if entering a reasonable distance final at 65 then try 60 and work it down. Point being to work your speeds down rather than chopping them down and please remember the slower you go the shallower your turns need to be and loosing a little altitude in the B-F turn is a good thing but if you find yourself overshooting your turn to final, the throttle is you friend to go-around rather than crawling it back into alignment when slow.


Have fun and be safe and post a pic of your new favorite airplane.
 
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Not uncommon to see pilots of all sorts, including instructors, flying the aircraft too fast. Continuous flying from long runways contributes to this habit.

I've seen several airplanes that ran off the end of the 3000' x 75' paved runway at my airport.
Believe it or not, almost without exception it was a C172,
generally one from a flight school / FBO at nearby Paine Field.
They have a 9000' runway available, and it's a shorter taxi from the FBO, so that's what they use.
Myself, I prefer to operate off the "short" (3000') runway when I go in there.
 
Also.... You should be able to nail your speeds for downwind, base, and final. Think of your downwind as the foundation for your landing. If you don't build on a good foundation, everything falls apart.

"A poor approach makes for a poor landing".
They can be salvaged, but for the inexperienced probably best to just go around & get it right.
 
Do all your altitude work. Then skim along just above a long airstrip and see when the thing quits flying. When it quits give it a touch of power to get back in air. Just sort of hover down the runway an inch or two off the ground. Then go around and do it some more. Generally speaking if the thing flys at 80-90mph, Final is sub 60 and touch down is a touch under forty. Work up to it. Lots of opinions and variables out there, find your own facts.
 
Instructors didn't talk of landing speeds or looking at instruments at flying schools where I was taught 60-odd years ago in Nova Scotia and Ontario. When sent solo after a couple rough landings, I said to my instructor Are you sure I can get it up and down? Don't worry about it, he said, your corrections were just fine. Aircraft speak to our senses with sounds and smells at low speeds.
 
It sounds crazy and I can't explain where the smell comes from, and it's not always the same. Maybe AOA allowing engine smells to enter from different axes in different spaces. Not unlike the sometime smell at top of a loop with descending debris. I've never thought of these smells as a cautionary note because they arrived when it seemed that I was comfortably doing the right thing.
 
I sometimes notice a change in smell when I pull full flaps. I think the change in down-air from the flaps changes the exhaust flow.
 
Just curious what airspeeds you all are flying your super cubs on base, long and short final.
I can identify with your question when I recently started flying a Cub for more than just a joy ride around the patch. I tried 55-60 like I was used to in glider trainers....too fast, lots of float. The Cub I fly has a really nice (helicopter?) ASI that goes down to 20 mph. It stalls around 28-29 mph IAS full flaps and approach power (in my case 1400 rpm) around 1700 lbs and mid CG.

Using the 1.3 Vso rule with some generous rounding (I don't know the CAS) I still only get 40 mph. I'm probably still not flying it slow enough but for a beginner it has been a good starting place.
 
Mention of carrying 1400 into landing: not done when I was taught 60-some years ago. Landings arrived from glide, high approach, slips if necessary. My just-retired corporate chief pilot son caught me adding power in the boonies last year, said "You're dragging it, Dad." All of us do it, needed at times, although I think the old way should be the standard.
 
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