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Thread: Bushwheels on Pa-12 gear

  1. #1

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    Bushwheels on Pa-12 gear

    I have a pa-12 with pa-14 gear on it. Itís had 31ís on it but Iím curious if anyone has ever put 35ís on 12 or 14 gear?
    thx
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  2. #2
    TurboBeaver's Avatar
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    Certainly no reason why you cant? Geometry and wall thickness are the same. You certainly will want the same HD beef up at the bottom cluster, saddle sleaves and backing gussets same as Cub legs. But that mod and the tail brace are a must even for 31". There is nothing weaker about 12 gear when it has the same modifications as 18 gear....
    Here what it should look like.Click image for larger version. 

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  3. #3
    hottshot's Avatar
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    Yep what he said!
    Wup
    My Spot Page
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  4. #4

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    Thanks for the feedback guys. That was the same logic that I was following..

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    TurboBeaver's Avatar
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    Hubbert,
    If you are going into some serious nasty stuff that requires 35" tires. You
    may want to increase the diameter of your safety cables ( factory 1/8") to 1/4" which will likely involve making up new thicker tabs to connect them to your gear. If you hit bad enough to
    start the gear off the fuselarge, those factory 1/8" cables are probably not going to save you........
    If your installing em to just look cool,
    and basically will be landing just where you see tracks. Then the 1/8" ones will be fine.
    Good luck either way
    E


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  6. #6

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    I'm really just interested in figuring out my options for getting the best angle of attack with the current set up I have ( pa-12 gear) more than anything. The 35's would be overkill for the terrain i would be going in and out of but if if can gain me a few more inches in nose height it may be worth the investment.. although I am sure I would lose some ground speed that may counteract what i am trying to accomplish..

  7. #7
    TurboBeaver's Avatar
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    Well that is a deep subject......
    For what ever its worth I used to fly a 12 with 6" extended gear and on skis it was helpful getting off and for prop clearance. Because of all the skis short pedistal heights, 8/9" its basically like being on 6:00 x6 tires.
    Those longer gear legs were really nice in that application.
    However on 31s we all felt it was abit
    of overkill, did not get off better and got the tail crazy heavy to manage.
    The 3x3 gear seams to be the hands down favorite.
    So if your sure you need 35" tires then
    standard gear lenght would still be more than ample AOA: imho.
    E

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  8. #8

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    it seems i have a couple of decisions to make. I appreciate the input!

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    55-PA18A's Avatar
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    ??? So which do you have? PA-12 gear as indicated in the title of the thread and Post #6, or PA-14 gear as indicated in Post #1?

    What is your objective? Increased wing AOA or getting your prop out of the dirt?
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  10. #10

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    My 12 has 6 inch extended gear with 31s, powered by a 150 with a long mount and borer prop. Ive flown it with stock 12 gear, standard 18 gear, and 6 inch extended gear and 31s. I don’t think I would buy35s without borrowing a set and trying it first. I dont think my 150 would power 35s the way I would want it to if I was on standard 12 or 18 gear.
    Using 6 inch extended gear and 31s I like the added angle of attack for takeoff and like not dragging my tailwheel through rough stuff when flairing during a stalled wheel landing. Having the prop further from snow and dirt, and a wider stance on steep beaches is a bonus.
    Last edited by logjam; 01-12-2020 at 05:33 AM.
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  11. #11

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    Quote Originally Posted by logjam View Post
    My 12 has 6 inch extended gear with 31s, powered by a 150 with a long mount and borer prop. Ive flown it with stock 12 gear, standard 18 gear, and 6 inch extended gear and 31s. I don’t think I would buy35s without borrowing a set and trying it first. I dont think my 150 would power 35s the way I would want it to if I was on standard 12 or 18 gear.
    Using 6 inch extended gear and 31s I like the added angle of attack for takeoff and like not dragging my tailwheel through rough stuff when flairing during a stalled wheel landing. Having the prop further from snow and dirt, and a wider stance on steep beaches is a bonus.
    I have the same setup as Logjam, except with a -160hp. -12's love the increased AOA on the 6" gear. They dont love extra weight (as with any plane)and 35's add weight and seem draggy.
    Really comes down to your mission. Everyone has a preference, and opinions are plentiful.

    Whether you go 3"ext or 6", I would take the extra money thought i wanted to use to buy 35's and buy AOSS suspension instead.

    Ron sullivan is a -12 guru as well as Jan Rubbert. Lots of knowledge and both have a pretty firm hand in some mandatory-12 STC's.
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  12. #12

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    Sorry for the confusion! I have pa-14 gear. AOA was my main objective really. I should also share that this in not a stock -12. It has most of the usual mods (-18 tail feathers, flaps, 160 hp) with the edition of the crosswind stol kit (to include the leading edge cuff). The -18 gear STC was never put on it and im sure i will be adding that to the list in the next few years.. But until then just trying to gather info on options.. I am leaning towards just staying with the 31's for the same reasons you guys mentioned above. 35's are definitely overkill for what I would be using them for.
    on another note i was looking at a 12 with stock 18 gear and 35's the other day and could be wrong but it didnt seem like my 12 on 14 gear with 31's was actually that much shorter in height at the prop..
    Last edited by Hubbert41; 01-13-2020 at 04:32 PM.

  13. #13

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    Depending on the Tailwheel setup it can change the AOA as well in the 3 pt. Going from a 8" 3200 TW to a BBW will flattened out the takeoff sight picture a bit the cowling.

  14. #14

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    Quote Originally Posted by Nodak33 View Post
    Depending on the Tailwheel setup it can change the AOA as well in the 3 pt. Going from a 8" 3200 TW to a BBW will flattened out the takeoff sight picture a bit the cowling.
    That is a good point.. I have the BBW currently but dont think i would want to give it up for the increase..Extended gear is really the answer to my problems.. is the AOSS suspension good for Certified 12's?

  15. #15

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    Yessir.


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  16. #16

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    ".. is the AOSS suspension good for Certified 12's?"


    Yes.
    Back In Alaska

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    PerryB's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by pa12drvr View Post
    ".. is the AOSS suspension good for Certified 12's?"


    Yes.
    With 18 gear, of course.
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  18. #18

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    Quote Originally Posted by PerryB View Post
    With 18 gear, of course.

    Yes, absolutely. Missed that element.

    Lots of positive attributes to the AOSS on my 18-geared-12.
    Back In Alaska
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  19. #19
    PerryB's Avatar
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    The next time I need hydra-sorbs I'm switching over to AOSS. Has anybody tried to see if the airfoil covers will fit over them? I like the couple mph they gain in cruise.
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  20. #20

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    Quote Originally Posted by pa12drvr View Post
    Yes, absolutely. Missed that element.

    Lots of positive attributes to the AOSS on my 18-geared-12.
    What gear setup do you have (extended or standard)? What sold you on the AOSS suspension?

  21. #21

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    Quote Originally Posted by Hubbert41 View Post
    What gear setup do you have (extended or standard)? What sold you on the AOSS suspension?
    3" Extended (-1 gear

    After the bungee experience on the -12, I would have gone with any other gear but

    - Wasn't looking for the lightest weight
    - Understood the AOSS to reduce bouncing / rebound
    - Worked with bigger wheels (i.e. my existing 29's, not 35's)
    - Reputedly didn't get impacted by temps
    - Reputedly relatively long life.

    Can attest that it really helps on bouncing; probably some slight drag penalty and it is not the lightest setup. It's worked (on wheels) in -25 a few times and still helped reduce the strictly pilot induced bounce on the asphalt. It's had quite a few years but not as many hours as would be expected and has held up fine so far.
    Back In Alaska
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  22. #22

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    AOSS eliminates the bounce, the tires just stick and follow the terrain much better. That gives you effective breaking much sooner. You can still bounce if you hit hard enough but nothing like with bungees!!
    DENNY
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  23. #23

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    Quote Originally Posted by DENNY View Post
    AOSS eliminates the bounce, the tires just stick and follow the terrain much better. That gives you effective breaking much sooner. You can still bounce if you hit hard enough but nothing like with bungees!!
    DENNY
    Denny said it much better than I could. Double ditto on the terrain following: at my cabin strip, the 1st 300' is pretty choppy, the second 400' is long rolls: hit either with too much energy and you'll be able to record multiple touchdowns per landing. When the pilot (i.e. me) of the -12 gets marginally sloppy, the AOSS prevents a relaunch no matter which end of that strip is the touchdown point....when the pilot is more then marginally sloppy (meaning a seriously bad landing), the AOSS tend to morph the mistake into one bounce as opposed to the boing boing boing that happened in the past with bungees.
    Back In Alaska
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  24. #24
    TurboBeaver's Avatar
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    Just to clear the air on PA 12 gear. Before one rushes out to modify your airframe ( simple job if your uncovered........NOT so simple if you are already covered). With all the horror story's one may hear about changing bungees on 12's; and considering
    The actual cost of new Cub HD gear/ with AOSS and modified fuselages to accept all this. The bottom line is going to be north of $5000; according to who does all the work.
    The mods are very nice to have; but 12 gear has been working just fine for 73 years..........
    And changing bungees is the Number one reason folks switch over. However one should keep this all in prospective. Considering you could probably have a set of FLOATS for what it will cost to upgrade!
    I changed 4 bungees Monday on a PA 12 in 55 mins. So all this bungee legend needs to be kept in proper perspective.......
    Good Luck
    E

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