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Which Way Will It Go?

Steve Pierce

Steve Pierce

BENEFACTOR
Graham, TX
Say you break a lower shock strut, bolt or whatever on the right side of the airplane, which direction is the airplane going to go? When Bill broke his left cabane fitting his airplane went left.
Prop.JPG
I have seen ground loops and they tend to turn left and side load the right gear or vice versa.
 

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If a ground Loop is not involved and it is strictly a broken part, I would think it would go to the direction of the broken part because of the drag on the runway
 
From what I've seen a left turn ground loop forces the right landing gear inwards, compressing the right cabane lower strut, shock, and maybe the left upper cabane-V. Then the right wing dips down as the plane tips laterally in that direction from centrifugal force burning any remaining forward momentum (or kinetic energy). Opposite for a right turn loop. Tubing and shocks may bend or snap under compression loads.

Straight ahead if one side lets go it's like AkPA/18 notes if the gear folds outward under sudden plane weight download with no safety cables installed. Also without safety cables the remaining opposite gear carrying the plane weight may fold outward like in Steve's picture pulling the cabane-V center sideways with it as the plane settles to the ground and tips forward bending the prop (that momentum/energy thing again). I guess the unfailed gear could also fold in like in a ground loop but any drag from the failed gear may reduce inward side pressure.

Gary

Edit: BTW what happened to the broken shock thread yesterday? https://www.supercub.org/forum/showthread.php?56873-Oh-it-Structural-Failure&goto=newpost
 
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BC12D-4-85 said:
BTW what happened to the broken shock thread yesterday? https://www.supercub.org/forum/showthread.php?56873-Oh-it-Structural-Failure&goto=newpost
Click to expand...

The person that sent me the photos got SJ to remove the thread. My understanding was that she was considering AOSS for her own Super Cub and found the pictures and some old comments about to shock system somewhere on the Internet, sent them to me and wanted my opinion. She argued with me about my opinion and then in a phone conversation when I tried to explain the pictured failure she kept interupting me and I decided I was wasting my time and hung up. I believe she had her mind made up and was looking for someone to agree with her assessment, I do not. Since then the owner of the involved aircraft contacted me and sent me pictures which further solidifies my opinion, hence this thread seeking others opinions.
 
AkPA/18 said:
If a ground Loop is not involved and it is strictly a broken part, I would think it would go to the direction of the broken part because of the drag on the runway
Click to expand...

I had the left ears for the cabana fail on a PA-18A years ago. Kept straight ahead, no tendency to swerve left or right. The droop tips saved the engine. When everything stopped, I had about 2” of prop clearance. The tip dug a furrow in the frozen ground, I suppose that helped keep it pointed the right way!


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
 
Steve Pierce said:
" I decided I was wasting my time and hung up. I believe she had her mind made up and was looking for someone to agree with her assessment, I do not."
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Steve, you aren't the Lone Ranger in experiencing situations like this. From time to time I find myself sitting across the table looking at a patient (can be male or female) with this look in their eyes...

Stubborn Cow.png

Back in my days growing up on a farm in Kansas, when facing an animal like this it was best to simply get into the pickup truck and back away...

You did the right thing, Steve, you did the right thing...

Randy
 

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At times, it can simply be a matter of effective use of time and energy. If some one needs/wants information, I try to help out. If someone needs/wants corroboration of an idea already formed, I've learned to be VERY cautious. I have a finite amount of time in a day. Why would I waste that time?

But, just as an observation, I've had many, many more 'difficult' conversations when I was working on cars than I've had while working on aircraft. I like to think it's because of the customer base but acknowledge that it may be in part, due to my increasing lack of patience.

Web

P.S. Hey Doc. I grew up on a dairy farm. You could have posted that pic with no wording and I'd know what it meant, lol.
 
I think this is kind of like discussions on which direction the toilet vortex rotates when in the Southern Hemisphere? Absent of that theory, I would say the aircraft overcompensated for Bill's political leanings.
 
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wireweinie said:
At times, it can simply be a matter of effective use of time and energy. If some one needs/wants information, I try to help out. If someone needs/wants corroboration of an idea already formed, I've learned to be VERY cautious. I have a finite amount of time in a day. Why would I waste that time?

But, just as an observation, I've had many, many more 'difficult' conversations when I was working on cars than I've had while working on aircraft. I like to think it's because of the customer base but acknowledge that it may be in part, due to my increasing lack of patience.

Web

P.S. Hey Doc. I grew up on a dairy farm. You could have posted that pic with no wording and I'd know what it meant, lol.
Click to expand...
Web, I couldn't find that photo without the wording. The wording helps those who have likely never broken in their boots :lol:

Randy
 
We had a shock strut break on a heavy J3 on pavement. The gear folded outward, the airplane did a slow 180 in the direction of the failed strut, and the wingtip was slightly scuffed. Prop was not involved. We had it flying again in 45 minutes with a new gear leg and shock strut.

The strut broke on a bounced landing - corrosion was the real reason for the failure. Surprised it hadn't failed while parked.

It seems like when the gear fails as a result of a ground loop you get a lot more damage - prop strike, bent spars, etc.

I agree with Steve, Web, and Randy - when a person's mind is already made up, discussion is pointless. That extends way beyond airplanes and doctor visits.
 
Steve Pierce said:
.....and wanted my opinion. She argued with me about my opinion and then in a phone conversation when I tried to explain the pictured failure she kept interupting me and I decided I was wasting my time and hung up. I believe she had her mind made up and was looking for someone to agree with her assessment..
Click to expand...

Gotta love that.
I had a similar discussion with a (female) student pilot about instrument flying,
I realized before long that she must know a lot more than me so I gave up.
 
OLDCROWE said:
I think this is kind of like discussions on which direction the toilet vortex rotates when in the Southern Hemisphere? Absent of that theory, I would say the aircraft overcompensated for Bill's political leanings.
Click to expand...

What happens directly on the equarter? And if no one watches does it make a sound?

Glenn
 
OLDCROWE said:
I think this is kind of like discussions on which direction the toilet vortex rotates when in the Southern Hemisphere? Absent of that theory, I would say the aircraft overcompensated for Bill's political leanings.
Click to expand...

Reminds me of how foolish I felt when I took my PPL written back in the early 80s. I was drawing a blank on wind direction around a low in the northern hemisphere. I asked the proctor for a bathroom break. I flushed the toilet and the water turned clockwise. Ahah!

It was the only question I got wrong on the test.
 
At times like this I have put a end to all discussion by saying
" I can explain it to you , but I can't understand it for you "
The look on their face can be priceless :eek:
This little blip as cost me a few customers but but none that I regret .
DW
 
I read a quote once that I think might apply to this situation.

"Sometimes it's best to stop arguing with someone and just let them be wrong."
 
Deep down, most women like a good argument more than they like being right. Men like being right more than they like to argue. When women are wrong, it's good therapy for them & good therapy for us. Why hang up? Life is too short to just let a good argument get away, especially when you don't have to live under the same roof afterward.
 
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