I like that answer!
PA-11 Wing Refurbishment
- Thread starter Jenniferemi
- Start date
Here's a photo showing the raised area above the spar, with a nail inside the red circle. You can see the gap between what I think is the spar cap and the spar. The plans call for a nail every 2" along the spar, but there appears to only be one above each rib.
Looking closer, I'm hoping that the black area underneath the nail isn't damp or rot!
Looking closer, I'm hoping that the black area underneath the nail isn't damp or rot!
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skywagon8a
MEMBER
SE Mass MA6
The nails are only there to hold the parts until the glue drys.
This is a mystery to me. Something has to have changed since the wing was covered, otherwise that pucker would not be there. The fabric would be tight without the ripple. Can you reach in and attempt to move that rib next to the spar?
This is a mystery to me. Something has to have changed since the wing was covered, otherwise that pucker would not be there. The fabric would be tight without the ripple. Can you reach in and attempt to move that rib next to the spar?
Here's a video I made inside the wing. The potential crack is at 1:00, and I'm pushing the aluminum against the spar at 1:04. You can see the area I sanded, and the wavy grain pattern underneath. I'm hoping that's not a crack that is leading up to the jury strut attach bracket above it. (Note: the wing is upside down!)
https://youtu.be/vKZAJNF-12I
https://youtu.be/vKZAJNF-12I
skywagon8a
MEMBER
SE Mass MA6
0:55 To the left of your potential crack at the edge of the area which you sanded there is another section which has the same distortion in the grain. It looks to me that both were the way the grain grew in the tree. Not a crack. Nothing to be concerned with.
1:39 Notice the same vertical ripples near the brace cross wire. Looks like it was caused during the milling of the spar stock. A big nothing burger.
1:15 The second rib cap is separated from the fabric, as you can see light between it and the fabric. That rib cap also appears to be straight rather than curved, why? Was the rib stitching too tight pulling the cap? Did someone push against it at some point in time breaking it? Can you reach in there and wiggle it? Is it cracked or broken away at either joint on each end of that piece? I still do not see what has moved to have caused that ripple in the finished fabric. That would not occur during the installation process of the fabric as the fabric would have shrunk flat without the ripple.
I see nothing in your video which would require a major opening up of the wing. Perhaps cutting some fabric near that second rib and possibly the third rib to check the condition of those rib caps?
Where you are pushing the leading edge aluminum against the spar, I see nothing broken. Just poor workmanship in building it in the first place. Since the fabric is not cracked along the edge of that aluminum leading edge, that flexibility isn't creating an issue. Not the best, but not enough to ground the plane.
1:39 Notice the same vertical ripples near the brace cross wire. Looks like it was caused during the milling of the spar stock. A big nothing burger.
1:15 The second rib cap is separated from the fabric, as you can see light between it and the fabric. That rib cap also appears to be straight rather than curved, why? Was the rib stitching too tight pulling the cap? Did someone push against it at some point in time breaking it? Can you reach in there and wiggle it? Is it cracked or broken away at either joint on each end of that piece? I still do not see what has moved to have caused that ripple in the finished fabric. That would not occur during the installation process of the fabric as the fabric would have shrunk flat without the ripple.
I see nothing in your video which would require a major opening up of the wing. Perhaps cutting some fabric near that second rib and possibly the third rib to check the condition of those rib caps?
Where you are pushing the leading edge aluminum against the spar, I see nothing broken. Just poor workmanship in building it in the first place. Since the fabric is not cracked along the edge of that aluminum leading edge, that flexibility isn't creating an issue. Not the best, but not enough to ground the plane.
Thanks so much for the info!
Another issue is the loose drag/anti-drag wires I found when I was snooping around inside the wing. I think I have some more investigating to do!
https://youtu.be/XjzAKCrPu9k
The continuing saga of the Baby Ace wing...
I wiggled, poked, and prodded all ribs in the wing. Every rib except one was tight, no lateral or up/down movement. One rib, however, I can push up and down a little, and left/right a little. I can't feel or see any apparent rib damage, so tomorrow I'm taking the camera and borescope out to have a look. This is the area of the wing where the fabric is slightly rippled, and where the drag/anti-drag rods are loose. So I'm thinking there may be a damaged rib there.
I'm really trying to not uncover the entire wing. Can I just remove a panel of fabric around the rib in question if the rib is indeed damaged, repair the rib, and patch the fabric? I really wish there was someone in Tucson who could do this type of work, as I have the practical handyman skills of a toddler!
I wiggled, poked, and prodded all ribs in the wing. Every rib except one was tight, no lateral or up/down movement. One rib, however, I can push up and down a little, and left/right a little. I can't feel or see any apparent rib damage, so tomorrow I'm taking the camera and borescope out to have a look. This is the area of the wing where the fabric is slightly rippled, and where the drag/anti-drag rods are loose. So I'm thinking there may be a damaged rib there.
I'm really trying to not uncover the entire wing. Can I just remove a panel of fabric around the rib in question if the rib is indeed damaged, repair the rib, and patch the fabric? I really wish there was someone in Tucson who could do this type of work, as I have the practical handyman skills of a toddler!
Just re-read the thread, and found this!
skywagon8a
MEMBER
SE Mass MA6
Yes.
Since this is an amateur built airplane and you are not the original builder you will need an A&P mechanic to do your annual condition inspections. You should get together with this person for some hands on advice on how to do this and where to find reference materials. That person should be able to give some advice even if not proficient in doing this type of work. If this person isn't convenient, just keep asking questions and posting pictures here. One or more of us will be able to help.
That loose brace wire needs an explanation. Did it just loosen over time or has there been a failure of some sort? I've never seen one that loose, that is unless it was never tightened in the first place.
Look here at AC-43.13-1B https://www.faa.gov/regulations_pol....cfm/go/document.information/documentID/99861 This is the mechanic's how to bible. It will help you in understanding the approved methods of making repairs.
algonquin
MEMBER
Seldovia,Ak
I hope not to sound super negative or nasty, so this is only my opinion nothing more and could be way off. I started flying in 1966 and flew for a living for many years, the one danger I’ve seen resurface is trying to cut corners/ shortcuts. It seems to me you don’t want to open up the wing because it’s new ground for you and looks like a lot of work. I would recommend open it up or find a fabric guy and have him do the job. There is way to many issues to be half-assed. this is the point where you learn about building airplanes and wings to be exact, the right way or get out of the work all together. Google airplane wing failures if you need to be convinced. We will help you thru this the right way but don’t look for short cuts from us here , I don’t think anybody wants to see you hurt and leave aviation in frustration. Good luck, it’s doable
RaisedByWolves
FRIEND
Tx
I bought a j3 project for my dad. When I looked at it the right wing was full of mice. Told him it needed to be recovered. Looked the left wing over through all the inspection covers and it looked good. He didn’t want me to recover it as he thought it was a lot of work. When he walked out I cut the fabric off. The mice only got ahead of the spar and most of the ribs and leading edges were gone they were corroded so bad. He was happy I cut the fabric off and kept saying wow I can’t believe it was that bad. How did you know. The cub was restored 20 years ago and never flown.
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Great advice from all!
After inspecting both wings thoroughly with a camera through the inspection ports and externally, I think I found the problem - a damaged rib. I had a firm landing in gusty crosswinds on the left main, and this rib is just above the left strut attach fitting.
https://youtu.be/rej2-EuoeBY
After inspecting both wings thoroughly with a camera through the inspection ports and externally, I think I found the problem - a damaged rib. I had a firm landing in gusty crosswinds on the left main, and this rib is just above the left strut attach fitting.
https://youtu.be/rej2-EuoeBY
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skywagon8a
MEMBER
SE Mass MA6
That's the rib. Why is that cross wire loose?
Hardtailjohn
Registered User
Marion, MT
I'd be cutting fabric....especially when you say there was damage from a "firm landing in a gusty crosswind". Start at the back and work forward. There's a lot that has gone on in there, and I'd want to be able to see it all at once.
John
John
