Jenniferemi
Registered User
Hi, I'm new to this forum... or any forum at that. I am looking for a recommendation on someone who has the capabilities to refurbish PA-11 wings. Any suggestions is much appreciated. Thank you!
PA-11 Wing Refurbishment
- Thread starter Jenniferemi
- Start date
Bill Rusk
BENEFACTOR
Sandpoint, Idaho
Welcome to the best forum on aviation (not that I am biased or anything).
There are a lot of good folks out there. It would be helpful to know a general location. If you live in California, a rebuilder in Florida might be a little too much trouble.
Best regards
Bill
There are a lot of good folks out there. It would be helpful to know a general location. If you live in California, a rebuilder in Florida might be a little too much trouble.
Best regards
Bill
Jenniferemi
Registered User
Thank you for the response, Bill! I am in North Idaho.
bob turner
Registered User
This is expensive stuff. I just did one PA11 wing - new spars and leading/trailing edges, five new ribs. A hundred hours! Granted, some of that was the pain in the butt landing light, but there you have it. Counting wing rotator, roughly two grand in materials. Mind you, that was one wing. Shop rates are $115/hr. I am not a shop, but working with one.
Add all that up, and you are only three grand shy of a new Dakota wing through white Poly Tone. We would have bought the Dakota wing, but I finished a month ahead of their proposed schedule, and saved two grand in shipping.
Moral of my story - learn how to do this yourself, and consider your time as a hobby. If you can't do that, it is cheaper to sell your dog eared 11 for 25, and buy a recently restored one for fifty or more.
Um, opinion.
Add all that up, and you are only three grand shy of a new Dakota wing through white Poly Tone. We would have bought the Dakota wing, but I finished a month ahead of their proposed schedule, and saved two grand in shipping.
Moral of my story - learn how to do this yourself, and consider your time as a hobby. If you can't do that, it is cheaper to sell your dog eared 11 for 25, and buy a recently restored one for fifty or more.
Um, opinion.
BC12D-4-85
SPONSOR
Fairbanks, AK.
Refurbishment can be many things. Been there - once. I suggest getting an estimate based on their current condition including ailerons from someone that has done it before several times. Then decide on a cost effective solution given your love for that PA-11 and the plane's value before and after the job.
Gary
Gary
bob turner
Registered User
If an owner has an unlimited budget, just call Legend Cub. They will come get it, and ferry it back. It will be like new.
Great info! I wish there was a forum like this for my recently-acquired Corben Baby Ace.
It's not a Super Cub, I know. So moderator - feel free to boot me out if you want, but I'm interested in refurbishment/repair of a Baby Ace wing, which may or may not have a compression crack in the spar. Any wood and fabric experts in the Tucson area who can inspect the spar, and repair the wing if necessary?
Thanking anyone in advance!
It's not a Super Cub, I know. So moderator - feel free to boot me out if you want, but I'm interested in refurbishment/repair of a Baby Ace wing, which may or may not have a compression crack in the spar. Any wood and fabric experts in the Tucson area who can inspect the spar, and repair the wing if necessary?
Thanking anyone in advance!
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bob turner
Registered User
Looks more like a broken rib from here. I assume it is not flying? If not, cut the fabric around that area and have a look. A compression crack in the spar is hard to see, deadly, and in this case requires a complete wing rebuild unless it is where you can splice. Take a photo after removing a 1'x1' piece of fabric, and look at that spar with a lot of light.
If it is just the rib, we can tell you how to fix it right on this thread.
If it is just the rib, we can tell you how to fix it right on this thread.
algonquin
MEMBER
Seldovia,Ak
Hi Jenni, welcome to the forum. May as well jump right in here, can you put some pic’s on of the wing and what you want the final out come to be. Serviceable- show quality, also do you want to do some of the work or all or nothing. Just so you know there are tons of books and videos on the subject to help also lots of help right here.
Hambone, I wouldn’t be flying that wing, as Bob said, wood wings are fun to work on. Make a plan, are you going to try and do the repair and recover the entire wing or just the damaged area. Take the wing off go to town.
Ps. I used to do partial recovers. Found that it took about as long to cover half a wing as a whole wing and it looks better. Food for thought.
Hambone, I wouldn’t be flying that wing, as Bob said, wood wings are fun to work on. Make a plan, are you going to try and do the repair and recover the entire wing or just the damaged area. Take the wing off go to town.
Ps. I used to do partial recovers. Found that it took about as long to cover half a wing as a whole wing and it looks better. Food for thought.
cubdriver2
FRIEND
upstate NY
Start eating twin stick popcyiles, the beech sticks are the best wooden rib repair material.
I have some A65 Baby Ace time, fun cheap flying machine.
Glenn
Thanks to all for the comments! By the way, I did my tailwheel endorsement in a Super Cub before embarking on my Baby Ace journey!
I'm going to get some more borescope photos of the area in question tomorrow before I start cutting fabric. The vertical anomaly at the bottom left of this photo of the back of the front spar is what I'm thinking may be a compression failure. I didn't see any indication of rib failure, but I'll take a better look tomorrow.
Some have said that the issue is simply the nails holding the curved aluminum leading edge shape coming out, and that the visible line may just be varnish bubbles. You can see the gap between the spar cap and the aluminum leading edge.
I'm going to get some more borescope photos of the area in question tomorrow before I start cutting fabric. The vertical anomaly at the bottom left of this photo of the back of the front spar is what I'm thinking may be a compression failure. I didn't see any indication of rib failure, but I'll take a better look tomorrow.
Some have said that the issue is simply the nails holding the curved aluminum leading edge shape coming out, and that the visible line may just be varnish bubbles. You can see the gap between the spar cap and the aluminum leading edge.
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Gordon Misch
MEMBER
Toledo, Wa (KTDO)
I'm pretty sure I see some misalignment of the wood grain between the left and right sides of that vertical anomaly. I don't know how to confirm a compression fracture, but that sure looks suspicious to me.
I'll get some better photos tomorrow. No groundloop by me, but I did have a rather firm landing in Sweetwater, TX in some strong gusty and variable crosswinds. I suppose that could set up a wing "whiplash" that could overflex the spar.
Anyway, I'm still interested in finding a local expert in the Tucson/Phoenix area to evaluate and possibly repair it.
Anyway, I'm still interested in finding a local expert in the Tucson/Phoenix area to evaluate and possibly repair it.
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Gordon Misch
MEMBER
Toledo, Wa (KTDO)
Maybe call some local shops for referrals to wood experts??
bob turner
Registered User
A landing hard enough to give you a compression fracture would be a memorable experience. I don't see the discontinuities that Gordon sees, but do not fly it until you sand that area and look at it with light and magnification. A compression fracture can be fatal. Spar longitudinal cracks not so much.
Gordon Misch
MEMBER
Toledo, Wa (KTDO)
Bob, you sure have a way with words at times!:lol:
skywagon8a
MEMBER
SE Mass MA6
Can you get a picture or tell us what the cap (top) of this rib looks like inside the wing? There is a protrusion just behind the leading edge which sticks up more than the other ribs. It also has the appearance that the rib cap has been broken downward. Perhaps someone's elbow leaning on it? The trailing edge of the leading edge skin appears straight with no puckers or distortions.
The second picture is more of a mystery. I have seen factory spars which were made of spliced sections without any external reinforcement looking like this. Did the builder splice sections to make the spars, it's possible?
bob turner
Registered User
I don't think compression cracks cause varnish to bubble, but on the other hand I have only seen photos. If you can get in, the Citabria Decathlon type club has photos of such cracks.
skywagon8a
MEMBER
SE Mass MA6
The line in that second picture with the varnish bubbles is too straight to be a fracture across the grain.
Steve Pierce
BENEFACTOR
Graham, TX
I don't see a crack. I have seen compression cracks in Champs spars adjacent of the plywood plates at the strut attach fittings from ground contact. Have also seen longitudinal cracks that follow the grain and scratches from installing ribs that were mistaken as cracks. One owner told someone to straighten me out when I reported to the insurance adjuster that the 4 spars on his Great Lakes were not cracked but scratches. It helps to apply light at an angle and look at the shadow to help magnify the crack. In this case I would sand the bubbles varnish, clean the wood and look very closely.
Thanks to everyone for the comments! I'm now in a position to try to get airborne again.
To that end, I sanded the varnish away from what I thought was the crack (see attached photo). To me, it just looks like an anomaly in the wood grain. My plan is to cut an X in the fabric above each nail that has backed out, re-secure the nails, then patch over the fabric. I have a local A&P who is not willing to do the work, but is willing to oversee me doing the work. It doesn't feel like there is a broken rib, but I'll try to look closer.
Once I re-attach the wings, I'll flex them up and down while somebody looks through an inspection hole at the area in question.
To that end, I sanded the varnish away from what I thought was the crack (see attached photo). To me, it just looks like an anomaly in the wood grain. My plan is to cut an X in the fabric above each nail that has backed out, re-secure the nails, then patch over the fabric. I have a local A&P who is not willing to do the work, but is willing to oversee me doing the work. It doesn't feel like there is a broken rib, but I'll try to look closer.
Once I re-attach the wings, I'll flex them up and down while somebody looks through an inspection hole at the area in question.
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skywagon8a
MEMBER
SE Mass MA6
Hambone, Does the irregularity appear on the other side of the spar? Is it smooth to your finger or can you feel a bump? It looks to me to be something that appeared during the original milling of the spar. Perhaps there was a knot in the wood which was cut off when the spar was milled and the grain had become distorted when it grew?
Gordon Misch
MEMBER
Toledo, Wa (KTDO)
How about the top and bottom surfaces of the spar? If they are flat, i.e. don't show that grain distortion, I'd think it's probably just the way the wood is? Just a non-expert opinion - - -
RVBottomly
PATRON
Asotin County Washington (KLWS)
No expert here, either, but I'd look at AC 43.13-1B for more info.
Table 1-1 and its notes discuss wavy grain.
https://www.faa.gov/documentLibrary/media/Advisory_Circular/AC_43.13-1B_w-chg1.pdf
Table 1-1 and its notes discuss wavy grain.
https://www.faa.gov/documentLibrary/media/Advisory_Circular/AC_43.13-1B_w-chg1.pdf
I can't see the other side of the spar without removing some of the covering. After sanding, it is completely smooth. Others have suggested that it still has the characteristic appearance of a compression fracture, and that I should inspect it with a magnifying glass.
Doesn’t look like a compression fracture. No evidence of the “chain link” failure, and the grain irregularity gets wider towards the bottom rather than being widest at the top. As others have suggested, it looks like a knot was adjacent and the irregularity is the result of that.
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