Interesting thought about how to manage battery protection circuits in an aircraft. 3,2,1, Your done. But the crash damaged batteries all have rechargeable cells still.
Electric Beaver
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Interesting thought about how to manage battery protection circuits in an aircraft. 3,2,1, Your done. But the crash damaged batteries all have rechargeable cells still.
PerryB
FRIEND
Chico, CA
That's for sure. We're seeing more and more ag aircraft with little chrome smiles around here because of that. I've learned the Garrett salute.
G44
MEMBER
SW Michigan
No idea, I was not working on a replacement for 100LL nor am I responsible for creating one.
King Brown
Registered User
Nova Scotia
Where there's a dollar to be made, engineers will find a way. My Earth-X jump-start convinced me next eye-opener is Ezekiel's Ladder.
WhiskeyMike
MEMBER
West Boxford MA
No media ever mentions this, nor do they mention the other consequences. It's right up there with fake news. Yes I am 100% for research, of course, but we really ought to be more honest with ourselves. Electric cars and planes don't pollute?? You mean they move the pollution to the power station's neighbors. In the end, this is another example of the "me first" generation. You keep the pollution away from your neighborhood and send it along to someone less influential than yourself. I would expect that much of the clientele for these seaplanes are part of the woke generation and will buy into this all the way. Smart PR move by the company and I can't knock them for it. But that's what it is. Progress is always painful. Ask Otto Lilienthal.
wireweinie
FOUNDER
Palmer, AK
Gordon Misch
MEMBER
Toledo, Wa (KTDO)
Progress only happens when we reject the notion of "can't", and our thinking is not constrained by what is "known". Personal opinion, I applaud those guys for straining at the bonds of conventioal wisdom. Hope that doesn't sound preachy, just my point of view.
L18C-95
FRIEND
Oxford UK
Given turboprops produce 60% less Co2 per passenger seat mile than turbofan, the technology already exists to improve emissions dramatically.
All we need is a resurrection/update of the Brabazon and Britannia and apply this proven technology to long haul.
Sent from my iPad using SuperCub.Org
All we need is a resurrection/update of the Brabazon and Britannia and apply this proven technology to long haul.
Sent from my iPad using SuperCub.Org
Good one! Are you talking to you or.....preaching(?)
sj
Staff member
Northwest Arkansas
Thirty years ago we laughed and laughed at the idea of a practical electric car. I drove a friends Tesla the other day on a twenty mile trip in the Arkansas hills and the performance and handling left a smile on my face - even with the maximum number of passengers in the car.
I'm always glad to see people trying new stuff, pushing new limits, and ignoring the voices that tell them it is stupid or will never work - even if it turns out to be true.
When I was young, I always imagined that the electric cars would be powered by miniature nuclear reactors (this was before "Back to the Future"), but then of course every accident would be a containment issue...
sj
I'm always glad to see people trying new stuff, pushing new limits, and ignoring the voices that tell them it is stupid or will never work - even if it turns out to be true.
When I was young, I always imagined that the electric cars would be powered by miniature nuclear reactors (this was before "Back to the Future"), but then of course every accident would be a containment issue...
sj
But back then containment of contaminates was not a concern. The industry was working under a, it wont be us belief.
Heck I was dreaming for all our hand tools to be powered by a nuclear cell, never considered we would have as much power in a tiny battery as we have today.
It is interesting how fast batteries are developing. The dangerous side of them has for the most part been exposed such that engineering is now aware that just because you can make a bit more power per pound, this is not necessarily the best way.
Heck I was dreaming for all our hand tools to be powered by a nuclear cell, never considered we would have as much power in a tiny battery as we have today.
It is interesting how fast batteries are developing. The dangerous side of them has for the most part been exposed such that engineering is now aware that just because you can make a bit more power per pound, this is not necessarily the best way.
Thinking of nuclear a bit more, back then the industry was pulling the fuel rods out after consuming about 10% of the energy they contained.
Now with the development that Mitsubishi and Fujitsu, probably others in there too, they can make use of around 90% of the energy.
Nice thing is much of the stored rods go back into service again.
Now with the development that Mitsubishi and Fujitsu, probably others in there too, they can make use of around 90% of the energy.
Nice thing is much of the stored rods go back into service again.
I would doubt it. Heck we don't have that now, and I expect none of us will see it. Can you imagine the decades it would take to certify that in country.
Maybe China can get that done.
If you limp home you'll destroy much of the value of the battery pack and therefore the airplanes' value. Diversion decisions would get serious quickly. It's like the iPhone question, do you cut off early, or let that critical call out. Airlines are used to running turbofans hard for years without major service, how will they chose when told that batteries need to leave half their capacity in reserve for the expected lifetime?
Steve Pierce
BENEFACTOR
Graham, TX
I think people are just pointing out the limitations that somehow get left out by the marketing department.
A few years ago I was hanging out at the Dakota Cub booth at Oshkosh and there was an electric airplane vendor across from them. He told us we needed to build a Super Cub around an electric motor. I asked for horse power, battery size and weight. We calculated it out and determined it was not practical with the data given.
Steve Pierce
BENEFACTOR
Graham, TX
.....never mind. I thought the thread was about something else
Tom Powel would have told you the Beaver Beater story at the Crowe Bar Fly-In but his wife was with him. I have never seen him so well behaved. 8)
We talk about battery reserves towards this future in our aviation. Yet we must not neglect the fact we do not currently have reserves in our petrochemical powered craft.
My wife's first car was a '53 Volkswagon. I did not have any fuel gauge but did have a reserve valve under the tank, just like the motorcycles those of us who ride grew up with.
I have to say the fuel gauges I have lived with in many aircraft are frightening in how bad they are. When I read of or hear about pilots who have exhausted their fuel, it really in many cases does not surprise me.
So will a battery source as fuel supply be and different. We do now have superb electronics on our side, not just some tiny non calibrated yellow faded needle on the bottom of a panel that is all black on black. Well out of siteline and barely illuminated when it needs to be.
Heck today's battery tools we work with have better power source display /management than most aircraft.
Yes we can now add good fuel estimating into our planes but will they actually give you a true accurate warning to the last minutes you have available? I do not see that they do.
My wife's first car was a '53 Volkswagon. I did not have any fuel gauge but did have a reserve valve under the tank, just like the motorcycles those of us who ride grew up with.
I have to say the fuel gauges I have lived with in many aircraft are frightening in how bad they are. When I read of or hear about pilots who have exhausted their fuel, it really in many cases does not surprise me.
So will a battery source as fuel supply be and different. We do now have superb electronics on our side, not just some tiny non calibrated yellow faded needle on the bottom of a panel that is all black on black. Well out of siteline and barely illuminated when it needs to be.
Heck today's battery tools we work with have better power source display /management than most aircraft.
Yes we can now add good fuel estimating into our planes but will they actually give you a true accurate warning to the last minutes you have available? I do not see that they do.
wireweinie
FOUNDER
Palmer, AK
The idea is good; a 'back up battery' to get you home/out of trouble. But that adds even more weight.
Web
Web
fobjob
MEMBER
Salt Lake City, Utah
If we go electric, unless battery technology makes some pretty serious jumps soon, we will probably use high temperature catalytic fuel cells for the power....using av gas for the fuel! Nothing is more efficient for storing hydrogen molecules than a hydrocarbon....
*the preheat would be awkward at high latitudes, though....
*the preheat would be awkward at high latitudes, though....
courierguy
MEMBER
Inkom, Idaho
The 3 gallon header tank, tapered to be totally usable, WITH ITS OWN SIGHT GAUGE, with both wing tanks draining into it without any other valving, I have in my RANS solves those issues for me. One thing I have found out though: if I am cutting it close (keep in mind 3 gallons is about an hour for my moderately throttled back Rotax) and really starting to pay close attention to that sight gauge, as the level drops, due to the tapered shape of the tank, the visual rate of drop accelerates! This adds to the fun of course when pushing things, adds a little exclamation point for being a dumb ass and pushing things (never again!) But, I know to to the last pint exactly how much gas I have, and it's all usable. It's what I call "stupid simple" in use, and if I ever run out of gas it will be my own damn fault, not an erratic gauge. Most if not all of the RANS guys who fly off airport use this system.
A couple e bike power pictures from the Twin Bridges airstrip up Trail Creek, to the lookout on top. I had my spare 6 AH battery, along with my main 11.5 AH battery on this epic, both 52 VDC, more then enough range. The lookout is a historic monument and is available to overnight in for those who make it up there, 9546'.
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Is there a concern about the fire risk from the batteries? Unlike petrol which needs oxygen to burn. Batteries dont.
The other interesting thing is the failure modes for electric motors, I don't know too much but I've been informed that they tend to fail rather unpredictably and the failure mode is usually full fail without much warning.
I'm really amazed by how far battery cars have come. and I think it offers a possibility for those within the city, I'm not convinced in the rural use.
In terms of practical alternatives. I'd like to see lots more nuclear (fusion ideally) to provide ready cheap energy and then use that to reform hydrocarbons from co2 / water. This effectively would make liquid fuel co2 neutral.
The other interesting thing is the failure modes for electric motors, I don't know too much but I've been informed that they tend to fail rather unpredictably and the failure mode is usually full fail without much warning.
I'm really amazed by how far battery cars have come. and I think it offers a possibility for those within the city, I'm not convinced in the rural use.
In terms of practical alternatives. I'd like to see lots more nuclear (fusion ideally) to provide ready cheap energy and then use that to reform hydrocarbons from co2 / water. This effectively would make liquid fuel co2 neutral.
Not if the correct batteries are selected and the proper cell monitoring is used and works.
courierguy
MEMBER
Inkom, Idaho
I've given this a fair bit of thought, seeing how I fly with not only a firewall mounted EarthX, but also with up to 3 different 52 VDC ebike batteries, totaling 19 AH, about 20 some pounds or so. I have a cylindrical belly pod, using telescope tubing/aluminum, I keep the two big batteries in, the smallest one is just a few inches from the back of my head. I also keep up to 35 gallons of mogas just inches from my head, in the wing tanks, in for a dollar, in for a dime. Point being, it's ALL potentially hazardous.
I know the person who made up the batteries, using Panasonic cells, and he knows I fly with them, (he's also a pilot) they have the proper BMS, and I treat them well. So far so good. I'm also in touch via internet forums with thousands of other ebike geeks, and the only battery conflagrations we know of, like most flying accidents, have obvious screwup factors involved: over charging (wrong charger) NO BMS, Chinese counterfeit cells, previously damaged by dropping, etc.
I know the person who made up the batteries, using Panasonic cells, and he knows I fly with them, (he's also a pilot) they have the proper BMS, and I treat them well. So far so good. I'm also in touch via internet forums with thousands of other ebike geeks, and the only battery conflagrations we know of, like most flying accidents, have obvious screwup factors involved: over charging (wrong charger) NO BMS, Chinese counterfeit cells, previously damaged by dropping, etc.
I agree, training aircraft may be flying with electric motors. However, they ultimately will be running on coal. It just depends on whether you want to burn coal under the cowl or burn it while plugged into the grid on the ground. Either way she’s coal fired.
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