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Thread: Electric Beaver

  1. #1

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    Electric Beaver

    https://canadianaviator.com/electric...m_medium=email

    Doesn't say what the range or payload might be.
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    www.SkupTech.com mike mcs repair's Avatar
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    mvivion's Avatar
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    If the concept can work anywhere, it’s with those guys. They fly short legs. Interesting to see how much down time they’ll have for charging.

    MTV
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    Cubus Maximus's Avatar
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    Mike, the article said 30 minutes charge for 30 minute flight "currently" (pun intended...)









    Last edited by Cubus Maximus; 12-11-2019 at 06:50 PM.

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    .....never mind. I thought the thread was about something else

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    Outstanding!!! Electric airplanes.

    At 500/hr per year, 24 gal/hr. x $5.00/gal. that a $60,000/yr. savings on fuel alone and more savings on maintenance.

    With the Beaver’s enormous useful load, big batteries can be carried in the belly without affecting passenger count.

    And a 750HP Beaver should take off like a helicopter. I wish I was 18 again.
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    G44's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Paul Heinrich View Post
    Outstanding!!! Electric airplanes.

    At 500/hr per year, 24 gal/hr. x $5.00/gal. that a $60,000/yr. savings on fuel alone and more savings on maintenance.

    With the Beaver’s enormous useful load, big batteries can be carried in the belly without affecting passenger count.

    And a 750HP Beaver should take off like a helicopter. I wish I was 18 again.
    That is a lot of coal they are going to have to burn to generate all that electricty for charging. Solar, wind cant carry the complete electrical load society demands.

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    It reminds me of the adage, the first 80% of the results take 20% of the effort. This plane has the entire passenger compartment filled with batteries and has 15 minutes endurance. The main obstacle to electric planes are the batteries, which need sufficient density and resistance to fire, and Harbour hasn't said how they're going to overcome it. I genuinely hope they have success, but I don't see it happening any time soon based on this demonstration.
    Idaho drinks more wine per person than any other state in the country.
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    wireweinie's Avatar
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    Ask EarthX!

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    Who'll be the first to build a STOL contest plane with an electric motor? Very lightweight, very high torque, short flight times. It would be a good fit.

    I read somewhere that Harbor is reporting 60 min recharge times. I don't know if that's for the 3 minute demo flight or for longer duration flights, but 60 minutes is pretty quick. Gotta applaud dreamers and developers.
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    G44: you’re right. We should stop trying to improve e-tech and stick with old-fashioned gas burners. After all, only one has the certainty of destroying the environment.

    Stop flying now!!! Scrap airplanes, walk to work, and eat vegan.

    BTW, what ever happened to the fuel replacement for 100LL?
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    mvivion's Avatar
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    I watched a video of the takeoff and it was loooong (they said it was downwind, but there wasn’t much judging on water) and the pilot was working really hard to get it to fly.

    The motor is apparently limited to 450 hp
    MTV

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    Quote Originally Posted by Paul Heinrich View Post
    Outstanding!!! Electric airplanes.

    At 500/hr per year, 24 gal/hr. x $5.00/gal. that a $60,000/yr. savings on fuel alone and more savings on maintenance.

    With the Beaver’s enormous useful load, big batteries can be carried in the belly without affecting passenger count.

    And a 750HP Beaver should take off like a helicopter. I wish I was 18 again.
    A couple of years ago, during a safety meeting at a Repsol LNG plant, a supervisor held up containers of products that packed a lot of energy for it’s size; dynamite packs a lot of energy for its size and a small number of other products like gun powder. Then he held up for the class to see a one litre clear bottle of gasoline. “Nothing” he said, “compares to the energy given from this product for it’s cost and availability”. Never forgot that.
    While it is impressive the efforts to switch to something better and greener, at present, it’s along way off from being anywhere near viable. Also, hidden from view, and never ever looked at by the media (most of them), is what the impacts are to build, in mass, and dispose of these batteries. Nor the cost.
    Imagine trying to charge they plane up by solar in Vancouver. Not happening. Were there any media reports of who paid for this Beaver to be converted and tested? Perhaps the makers of the motor and the charter company themselves, although it wouldn’t be surprising if public dollars were involved. Green gets attention these days.
    Far better for research to be done for the improvement of gasoline engines IMO.
    Last edited by RoddyM; 12-11-2019 at 05:48 PM.

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    I think electric aircraft are going to be the trainer of the future. One they start showing up rapid charge stations will be close behind. A lot less hassle then trying to get a fuel tank/tank pump approved at a runway. They will have issues/growing pains but that occurs with anything.
    DENNY
    Last edited by DENNY; 12-11-2019 at 07:46 PM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by RoddyM View Post
    A couple of years ago, during a safety meeting at a Repsol LNG plant, a supervisor held up containers of products that packed a lot of energy for it’s size; dynamite packs a lot of energy for its size and a small number of other products like gun powder. Then he held up for the class to see a one litre clear bottle of gasoline. “Nothing” he said, “compares to the energy given from this product for it’s cost and availability”. Never forgot that.
    While it is impressive the efforts to switch to something better and greener, at present, it’s along way off from being anywhere near viable. Also, hidden from view, and never ever looked at by the media (most of them), is what the impacts are to build, in mass, and dispose of these batteries. Nor the cost.
    Imagine trying to charge they plane up by solar in Vancouver. Not happening. Were there any media reports of who paid for this Beaver to be converted and tested? Perhaps the makers of the motor and the charter company themselves, although it wouldn’t be surprising if public dollars were involved. Green gets attention these days.
    Far better for research to be done for the improvement of gasoline engines IMO.
    So you've unplugged from the grid and power your home with a gennie? If not? Why not?

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    wireweinie's Avatar
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    Some of these posts are VERY entertaining, lol.

    I don't hold much stock in an all electric aircraft but for much more practical reasons (at least to me). First off, simple weight and balance. Electric motors can be made for great torque, but any type of motor can be relatively heavy. Go browse the threads that discuss O-360 vs O-320. One side says 'more horse power, while the opposing side says 'extra weight'. The electric motor installed on this Beaver is supposed to be rated for 750 h.p. I'd like to see the weight of that exact motor and compare it to the weight of a P&W PT-6 or Garrett 331. Those will produce 750 h.p. and 1000 h.p. when mounted on Beavers/Otters. Then lets take the 'fuel source'. How much does the battery pack, alone, weigh? Compare this to the weight of a full load of kerosene. Now calculate the horsepower to weight for electric vs turbine. As an afterthought add to that, the time in flight available for each system.

    Now consider the size of the battery pack and how much cabin space will be needed for it. Wet fuel goes under the floor in a Beaver, so no lost space. How about safety of the crew in a crash. If you're of the green persuasion, how about the environmental concerns after this battery pack is broken up. On land, in fresh water, in salt water.

    Not a hater, not a fan, yet. But I sincerely hope they keep working on reducing weight and increasing time of flight. A smaller aircraft, say a two seater, with about a two hour flight range would seem to be doable. Until then I'll trust in a proven design

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    Hybrid, like my Prius, makes more sense, with current tech. E power+plus ICE for takeoff, ICE for cruise. Regen during descents! I descend 1200' every day driving on the way to work, and with the Prius I get 3 miles + extra range, once on level ground, free, plus save brake wear. Friction brakes only, like my 1 ton Chevy, seems archaic in comporasion. Red light? Chevy idles, Prius shuts down. Prius drivers are known to look smug, ( or maybe constipated) that's why. Romp on the throttle, like I do entering I -15 every day, and they can move out quite smartly, and I still average 100 to 700 mpg on my 13 mile commute to my crane yard. Depending on OAT, ICE will come on just to keep it warm, summer time not so much. The money the Prius saves me over driving the 1 ton, buys gas for the plane.
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  21. #21

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    Quote Originally Posted by stewartb View Post
    So you've unplugged from the grid and power your home with a gennie? If not? Why not?
    We’ve got Nuclear and hydro. They’re doing fine. Thought we were talking aircraft. Big difference.
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  22. #22

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    this is an older post about power to weight for electric engines. If it and the battery was a little more mature I would have considered it for my 12 project.

    https://www.google.com/amp/s/phys.org/news/2015-04-world-record-electric-motor-aircraft.amp
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    348hp from a 110# motor would be pretty sweet. Imagine coming home, unplugging the airplane, flipping a switch, and going to full power with no warmup. I'd like it. No fueling, no heat or cooling worries, no leaning, no loss of power at altitude, etc. It likely won't happen in my lifetime but the next generation will only know about gasoline from history books.

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    CenterHillAg's Avatar
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    I’d like to see it successful and put the heat on P&W and their antics in the turbine market. PT6 parts and pricing are getting past the point of stupidity.
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    courierguy's Avatar
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    I've ridden my Montague folder ebike above 9K several times, And yes, could detect no loss of power in the 1300 watt motor, a neat side benefit. A noticable difference as compared to my own sorry ass.
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    Quote Originally Posted by stewartb View Post
    348hp from a 110# motor would be pretty sweet. Imagine coming home, unplugging the airplane, flipping a switch, and going to full power with no warmup. I'd like it. No fueling, no heat or cooling worries, no leaning, no loss of power at altitude, etc. It likely won't happen in my lifetime but the next generation will only know about gasoline from history books.
    There are still plenty of heat related issues in motor controllers and battery systems.
    Not to mention the extreme weight of the power supply, the batteries are evolving and pretty damn good in ground vehicles. But still not ready for a usable aircraft.
    I expect for a training plane, quick swapable batteries could bring the duty cycle way up. Would work well for the Beaver too if not for required flight reserves.
    We do pay allot for gasoline, but it is cheap when compared with alternatives such as cost of batteries and their charging systems. That is clearly changing though.
    I commend companies such as discussed here who are pioneering the path for others. But I hope projects like this do not bankrupt them.

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    Someone just clued me in to Formula E. Great, I thought, a showcase for the pit crews swapping battery packs. Or add 20 points of charge in a minute or two. Anything to show the public how far we've come in practicality. He showed me a video of the drivers hopping from one car to another!!! Yeah, that'll do it.
    What's a go-around?

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    Quote Originally Posted by DENNY View Post
    One they start showing up rapid charge stations will be close behind.
    DENNY
    There has been a lot of talk about rapid charge stations. Are there any batteries which can take repeated recharging in less than 10 minutes without melting down? I have yet to wear out a gasoline tank unless they were made of rubber.

    It appears that battery technology is the key to flying with electric airplanes.
    N1PA

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    Quote Originally Posted by Skywalker View Post
    Someone just clued me in to Formula E. Great, I thought, a showcase for the pit crews swapping battery packs. Or add 20 points of charge in a minute or two. Anything to show the public how far we've come in practicality. He showed me a video of the drivers hopping from one car to another!!! Yeah, that'll do it.
    Bingo
    At the Pikes Peak hillclimb we are seeing tremendous performance from both electric cars and bikes.
    A few years back one of Toyota's battery chargers was damaged in a road accident on its way to the event.
    They had to get one shipped in from Japan to be ready the next morning. The cost of shipping was beyond most competitors overall budget for the event.

    The Brits who bring us most hyper performance track cars have a super high performance electric car. It is impressive to see what AWD offers when each tire provides it's own computer regulated thrust and braking.
    But for each 30 min track session you need a company provided crew to swap the two battery packs out which weigh in the order of 3000 lbs. This needs to be done right away in order to cool and stabilize the cells.

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    Wonder if it slows down at low voltage or just stops like my Stihl blower does.
    Remember, These are the Good old Days!
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    Quote Originally Posted by OLDCROWE View Post
    Wonder if it slows down at low voltage or just stops like my Stihl blower does.
    Interesting thought about how to manage battery protection circuits in an aircraft. 3,2,1, Your done. But the crash damaged batteries all have rechargeable cells still.

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    Quote Originally Posted by CenterHillAg View Post
    I’d like to see it successful and put the heat on P&W and their antics in the turbine market. PT6 parts and pricing are getting past the point of stupidity.
    That's for sure. We're seeing more and more ag aircraft with little chrome smiles around here because of that. I've learned the Garrett salute.
    After Monday and Tuesday, even the calendar says WTF !
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    Here is another thought. Building the batteries, how much land is scrapped clean to provide the Lithium for the batteries. Environmental mess and as has been said what do you do with all the used up batteries?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Paul Heinrich View Post
    ”G44: you’re right. We should stop trying to improve e-tech and stick with old-fashioned gas burners. After all, only one has the certainty of destroying the environment.”

    I didn’t say we should stop trying to improve e-tech, I was just trying to poin out that some think there is no environmental impact with electric when actually that may be wishful thinking when one has to consider how the electricity generated and used batteries are disposed of.


    “Stop flying now!!! Scrap airplanes, walk to work, and eat vegan.”


    Huh? Ok, knock your self out if you want.


    “BTW, what ever happened to the fuel replacement for 100LL?
    No idea, I was not working on a replacement for 100LL nor am I responsible for creating one.

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    Where there's a dollar to be made, engineers will find a way. My Earth-X jump-start convinced me next eye-opener is Ezekiel's Ladder.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Chip D View Post
    Here is another thought. Building the batteries, how much land is scrapped clean to provide the Lithium for the batteries. Environmental mess and as has been said what do you do with all the used up batteries?
    No media ever mentions this, nor do they mention the other consequences. It's right up there with fake news. Yes I am 100% for research, of course, but we really ought to be more honest with ourselves. Electric cars and planes don't pollute?? You mean they move the pollution to the power station's neighbors. In the end, this is another example of the "me first" generation. You keep the pollution away from your neighborhood and send it along to someone less influential than yourself. I would expect that much of the clientele for these seaplanes are part of the woke generation and will buy into this all the way. Smart PR move by the company and I can't knock them for it. But that's what it is. Progress is always painful. Ask Otto Lilienthal.
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    Quote Originally Posted by WhiskeyMike View Post
    Progress is always painful. Ask Otto Lilienthal.
    It only hurt right there at the end.

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    Progress only happens when we reject the notion of "can't", and our thinking is not constrained by what is "known". Personal opinion, I applaud those guys for straining at the bonds of conventioal wisdom. Hope that doesn't sound preachy, just my point of view.
    Gordon

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    Given turboprops produce 60% less Co2 per passenger seat mile than turbofan, the technology already exists to improve emissions dramatically.

    All we need is a resurrection/update of the Brabazon and Britannia and apply this proven technology to long haul.


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