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Thread: Jump start pack

  1. #1
    cub yellow's Avatar
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    Jump start pack

    What jump start pack should I buy? I have an O320 in my experimental supercub with an odyssey pc680 battery. Looking for small and light. Has anyone had good / bad experiences with the earth x ?

    Thanks

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    Very good experience with the Earth X. Just coming up on 3 years with it.
    With the 4 cells rather than 3 in other brands it provides a higher voltage such that it needs less amperage. Nice thing about the higher voltage is most jump packs call for you to get it disconnected within 30 seconds so the inrush from the alternator does not damage them. The EarthX uses a 15 volt charger and the alternator does not impose a risk after start.
    My Kubota tractor was always very hard to start in cold weather, just below freezing was a no go with a huge lead acid battery. I now have removed all the huge battery cables and just have a pair of 10Ga wires that the Jump pack plugs into. I can now start this old tractor down below 20įf with a 1lb battery.
    My lawn tractor also no longer gets a new battery every year, it has a jump plug built into it and I just plug in the pack.
    To me I am totally satisfied with the EarthX It does have a 400A fuse in the positive cable that I have popped a few times. Not a bad idea to have a spare cable set. I now solder in a new fuse to restore the popped cable.
    to me, $130ish for a battery that can fit in a pocket and will start most anything, I am now a believer.
    Heck, I question if my plane will even need it's own battery. With a low output alternator and low power draw when flying this may be all that is needed.
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    wireweinie's Avatar
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    XP1 Micro Start works well. Also has lots of adapters to recharge your phone, sat phone, Ipod, etc. If you need a 24 volt jump pack, look for one called a Goliath.

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  4. #4
    cub yellow's Avatar
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    Thanks charlieN. Any risk of damage to my 8 amp B&C alternator?


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    cub yellow's Avatar
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    Thanks all. Just noticed earth x has their jump pack on sale on their web site for $100.

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    Quote Originally Posted by cub yellow View Post
    Thanks charlieN. Any risk of damage to my 8 amp B&C alternator?
    No, no risk.
    What the issue is with high power batteries this small is the inrush of a 60+Amp alternator will smoke the tiny cells in these packs, especially the ones utilizing 3 high output cells. The Earth X has a better tolerance to this. The solid magnet 8A alternator you have, as long as it is regulated well should be no issue to these batteries.
    You do want a modern gear reduction starter on your plane, they draw in the 80-100ish amp range where the old big iron starters could need 250-300A to spin them.
    My experience over the past decade around race cars with Anti Gravity and Ballistic batteries is a stupid high failure rate, as in I have seen one battery not fail. These batteries did not have discharge limiters nor good cell balancing. The Anti Gravity Micro start batteries have failures due to these issues.
    I have seen failures on more than one day old battery.
    The motorcycle guys I know are experiencing a high failure rate in the Micro Start with cell failures.

    A scare I had just a few weeks ago, I went out to my old 1972 Kubota, plugged in my Earth X, this old tractor need to run the glow plugs for quite some time compared to new diesels. When I motorized the starter I just got a clunk, second try not even a clunk. The jump pack was more than just warm.
    Went inside and plugged it into the charger, didn't even get one light on for quite some time. A few hours later, it is back to life as if I didn't try to F it up by running it all the way down.
    What I have learned tha past few years with this technology change, buy devices that utilize LiFePo4 cells which is what EarthX uses. They are less powerful per cell than other batteries especially those with the unstable LiCoO2 cells that had a bad ride in the news with the 787 and some flaming cell phones.
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    Quote Originally Posted by cub yellow View Post
    Thanks all. Just noticed earth x has their jump pack on sale on their web site for $100.
    Wow, that is a great price.
    It is well worth buying right from them since you can an just might smoke a fuse or two in the cables. They will send you a new one NC.
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  8. #8
    cub yellow's Avatar
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    Thanks again all. I just ordered from earth x for $99..00

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    RVBottomly's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by cub yellow View Post
    Thanks again all. I just ordered from earth x for $99..00

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    Convinced me, too. I'd been meaning to get one for the past year.

    Vic

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  10. #10

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    I hard wired the earthx jumper kit to my battary and strapped the plug under my panel, nice to have a portable APU. I have a split master so i can leave the alt off during the start and turn it on once the booster's been unplugged.
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  11. #11

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    These jump packs utilize an EC5 battery connector, common from what I see in radio control cars and planes. You can by these connectors with 10Ga leads to make simple safe connections into whatever you want to use this power source. Lawnmowers, ATV, Cars Boats and planes as mentioned above.
    As I stated earlier, I start my 47YO Kubota Diesel with a one pound battery rather than the 65# lump it calls for.
    On many Non electric aircraft, you could install a starter only. Run the leads back to where you have the EC5 connector. Carry your battery with you, plug it in, start up and fly away. No master, no other electrics, no generator, nothing. No worrying about where to mount a 27# lead acid lump in the plane, you just have a one pound battery that you carry in your pocket or flight bag.
    if you utilize a hand held radio you can bring its battery back up too.
    Keep in mind though, most Tablets and many radios have bigger batteries than the jump pack such that you will run the pack flat trying to recharge them.
    Last edited by CharlieN; 11-27-2019 at 05:49 AM.

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    skywagon8a's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by CharlieN View Post
    ..As I stated earlier, I start my 47YO Kubota Diesel with a one pound battery rather than the 65# lump it calls for.
    Charlie, get a Diehard from Sears. I have one in my Kubota that is 25+ years old, sits for weeks at a time....hasn't let me down yet. Have a Diehard in the 185 as well.
    N1PA

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    Quote Originally Posted by skywagon8a View Post
    Charlie, get a Diehard from Sears. I have one in my Kubota that is 25+ years old, sits for weeks at a time....hasn't let me down yet. Have a Diehard in the 185 as well.
    Many decades back I had a JC Penny labeled battery that lasted a verry long time, I think they were a Johnson batterywhich I think is who makes the Sears batteries. Sears pulled out of the region here a few years ago, Interstate is best we can get now. Wallmart is the only big store left and when My wife and I brought the B-17 tour here the pilots could not find the Walmart from the air since it is the size of a hardware store in the rest of the country.
    I do say this jump pack impresses me, it my third one and the first that is worth having. My previous two would not start a car that did not have a battery in it, I am talking about small 4 and 6 cylinder cars with reduction drive starters that need less than 100A cold. Heck one of them would not start my lawn tractor even with a fresh charge.

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    RVBottomly's Avatar
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    Earth X is fast shipping. I ordered the jump pack special Tuesday of this week and it shows up this morning after Thanksgiving. Cute little thing.
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    While your dealing with EArthX, replace your boat anchor of a battery, the Oddysey ( I've had 2, good but HEAVY, with one of their's, you'll knock off a good ten pounds, more if you move it forward and get rid of some primary cabling. I didn't realize they made jump packs when I got mine, but if it's as good as the big batteries they offer I can't see how you could go wrong.
    The proper BMS/ battery management system ( built in the battery) combined with high quality cells and the correct charge rate is crucial with these newer batteries. Done right they are fantastic, wrong, not so much. This I have learned from my 3 ebikes, which have been nothing but great.
    Last edited by courierguy; 11-29-2019 at 03:18 PM.

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    cub yellow's Avatar
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    Yeah, the odyssey is a bit heavy, at some point I need to do something about that. I'm not yet completely comfortable putting a lithium battery under my seat.

    Brad

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    Quote Originally Posted by courierguy View Post
    While your dealing with EArthX, replace your boat anchor of a battery, the Oddysey ( I've had 2, good but HEAVY, with one of their's, you'll knock off a good ten pounds, more if you move it forward and get rid of some primary cabling. I didn't realize they made jump packs when I got mine, but if it's as good as the big batteries they offer I can't see how you could go wrong.
    The proper BMS/ battery management system ( built in the battery) combined with high quality cells and the correct charge rate is crucial with these newer batteries. Done right they are fantastic, wrong, not so much. This I have learned from my 3 ebikes, which have been nothing but great.
    Just this week, I got a number of field approvals for my PA-16, Sutton exhaust to make room, and EarthX battery on the firewall chief among them. It will likely be a year or so before I have it done, but getting the paperwork for the alterations first is always a good idea!


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    stewartb's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by cub yellow View Post
    Yeah, the odyssey is a bit heavy, at some point I need to do something about that. I'm not yet completely comfortable putting a lithium battery under my seat.

    Brad


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    EarthX airplane batteries come with an on-board trouble LED and an output lead for a remote trouble LED, which they also sell. My first ETX900 flashed a code. I landed, called EarthX, and they sent me a new battery via express. It was sick but not dangerous. If you have a modern crowbar charge circuit you should be plenty safe.

    Re: Jump packs. I have a couple and use them often. They're great except for an engine that requires lots of time cranking. Jump packs spin a typical engine easily but do it in short spurts. Even then the duration time is limited. No surprise given the size. When you do exhaust the charge you're out of luck for a while. They don't recharge rapidly.
    Last edited by stewartb; 11-29-2019 at 05:28 PM.
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    wireweinie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by cub yellow View Post
    I'm not yet completely comfortable putting a lithium battery under my seat.

    Brad

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    Why?

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  20. #20
    cub yellow's Avatar
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    Knew that was coming. I Just like the simplicity of a sealed odyssey battery. I think there were a few early generation lithium batteries that had meltdowns. That has I'm sure been worked outby now.

    Cost is also an issue.

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  21. #21
    wireweinie's Avatar
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    Not many problems with the EarthX. The only smoking battery that I know about, up here, happened immediately after installation. My money says that was due to man made issues. As to simplicity, the EarthX can be installed in more positions than the Odyssey. The biggest, issue in installing one is making sure that the battery model you chose will absorb the power output of the alternator. I.e., a tiny battery connected to a 70 amp alternator will not end well.

    What's the calculation for reducing weight in an aircraft? $600 a pound?

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  22. #22
    cub yellow's Avatar
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    Yes, weight reduction can be expensive. Agreed the battery is a fairly easy reduction of a substantial amount.

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    Quote Originally Posted by cub yellow View Post
    Knew that was coming. I Just like the simplicity of a sealed odyssey battery. I think there were a few early generation lithium batteries that had meltdowns. That has I'm sure been worked outby now.

    Cost is also an issue.

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    Pretty sure those other batteries were an entirely different chemistry.
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    courierguy's Avatar
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    I really like/liked (past tense) the Odyssey batteries, I've had two, both lasted about 10 years.

    My last one, after being replaced by the EarthX, was used in my ATV for a couple years. Then in it's final use, operating this timed shutter over the dog door in my shop. I used a spare linear actuator from my Datum skis, a bathroom fan timer, so I could leave in the morning with the dog (new at the time) kept in the shop, but then an hour later the shutter would open and he'd be free to run around the place all day, all without suffering separation anxiety while watching me drive off.

    After a month of this, each time saying STAY as I activated the shutter prior to going to work, I left it open while giving the stay command, and drove off, with an eye on my rear view mirror. He didn't follow me, the training system worked perfect, and hasn't been used since. The battery is still on the shelf, and I use it for bench testing various 12 volt stuff, they are excellent batteries for sure, just heavy , compared to the new stuff.
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  25. #25

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    I got a new set of cables for my EarthX 12-volt Jump Pack in the mail yesterday. I was pleased to see that they now have an in-line circuit breaker rather than a fuse.

    I've twice blown the fuse on older cables and since the fuse cannot be replaced the Jump Pack was completely useless when this happened. The circuit breaker is a big improvement.
    Last edited by NunavutPA-12; 09-18-2021 at 05:01 PM.
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  26. #26

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    I commonly replace the fuse on my Jump pack. It needs to be soldered in, obviously. The fuse is a 400A stereo fuse.
    Once you have had one replacement you can then renovate the smoked one.
    But it is good to hear they put a breaker inline.
    Regards, Charlie
    Super Coupe E-AB build in process

  27. #27
    cubdriver2's Avatar
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    Soooo, what's opinions on who makes the best one now?

    Glenn
    "Optimism is going after Moby Dick in a rowboat and taking the tartar sauce with you!"
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    Me too, I wanna know since my EX jump pack packed it in and I have no desire for their 24V one at that price.
    Regards, Charlie
    Super Coupe E-AB build in process

  29. #29

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    Quote Originally Posted by cubdriver2 View Post
    Soooo, what's opinions on who makes the best one now?
    I chose Antigravity XP-1 Micro Start with clampless starting harness AG-MSA-10TP. I chose this unit because it has a compatible harness that can be permanently connected to the aircraft battery and, in the FX-3, allows the jump pack to be connected and disconnected while in the seat.

    Is it any good? Have not used it the airplane but did use it to start my car after the expensive AGM battery died.

    https://antigravitybatteries.com/pro.../micro-starts/

  30. #30

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    Years back I did not have good luck with Anti-Gravity products in road race cars, but allot has changed in a decade and hope they have too.
    Regards, Charlie
    Super Coupe E-AB build in process

  31. #31

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    I'm still an EarthX fan, The 12-volt Jump Pack has served me well for about five years now. Of course, I admit to blowing the fuse a couple of times, but that was pilot error.

    Now, when it comes to the EarthX batteries it's a slightly different story. My ETX-900 started acting up in year four, although their web site says they "should be" good for eight years. I would have hoped to get more life out of a $600 battery but maybe I just got a lemon. I'm still committed to the lithium concept and have ordered another ETX-900. Fool me once ..... etc. But I'm hoping for a different outcome this time.

    Their customer service is superb, in my experience.

  32. #32
    wireweinie's Avatar
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    The XP-1 for 12 volt. There's one out there called a Goliath that works well if you need 24 volt.

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  33. #33
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    My local battery shop is nuts for Noco jump packs. After hooking it up you turn it on and wait for a click from an internal switch. Thatís different but simple enough. Mine takes longer to charge than my Jump Packs and the carry bag leaves room for improvement but the battery works well.

    You guys and fuses. What the hell? Iíve had three Jump packs (still have three but can only find two!) and have used them a lot for cars, boats, and wheelers. Iíve never blown a fuse. Heck, until this thread I didnít know they had a fuse!
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Click image for larger version. 

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  34. #34

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    The fuse,
    I use the JP to power projects up in the shop as well as starting vehicles, If I recall a tool or material got in where it did not belong, One of my workers did that one such that I do not know exactly what happened, he does not either.
    Myself, I was hooking up to a battery working in the dark and the ground side got over to the positive as I was clamping the Pos to the terminal. I will say the fuse was mighty fast acting. Not much of an arc as when starting a big ole lead acid battery.
    Regards, Charlie
    Super Coupe E-AB build in process

  35. #35
    stewartb's Avatar
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    Last winter I did a three week trip to TX. Got home to AK at the usual 2:00 AM and -15į. My commuter, a Subaru Outback, had a end-of-life battery when I parked it. Totally dead when I got back. Nothing lit up or chirped when I opened the door. Ruh roh! My EarthX Jump Pack fired it right up. It’s moments like that that make loyal customers. Jump Packs are amazing.
    Last edited by stewartb; 09-18-2021 at 08:56 PM.
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  36. #36

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    Quote Originally Posted by stewartb View Post
    My local battery shop is nuts for Noco jump packs. After hooking it up you turn it on and wait for a click from an internal switch. Thatís different but simple enough. Mine takes longer to charge than my Jump Packs and the carry bag leaves room for improvement but the battery works well.

    You guys and fuses. What the hell? Iíve had three Jump packs (still have three but can only find two!) and have used them a lot for cars, boats, and wheelers. Iíve never blown a fuse. Heck, until this thread I didnít know they had a fuse!
    I too can vouch for the Noco, had one for a couple of years and it still holds remarkable charge for the level of neglect it has suffered (leaving it without topping it up etc).

  37. #37
    cubdriver2's Avatar
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    Anyone use this? I also want to use it to power my nonelectric J4 radio and pad. 30000 ma sounds impressive?

    https://www.walmart.com/ip/Gooloo-Po...B&gclsrc=aw.ds

    Glenn
    "Optimism is going after Moby Dick in a rowboat and taking the tartar sauce with you!"

  38. #38

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    Quote Originally Posted by stewartb View Post
    My EarthX Jump Pack fired it right up. It’s moments like that that make loyal customers. Jump Packs are amazing.
    That has been my experience with the EX as well. Even starts my Kubota tractor in the winter which had no battery in it, more than once.
    How do you feel the Noco is to the EX in cold weather?
    Other packs I have been around were not impressive. Not worth a 20 spot and they cost many times that. I would go back to carrying a PC680 again which we know is not real light.
    Regards, Charlie
    Super Coupe E-AB build in process

  39. #39

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    So, question, and comment:

    Question - what kind of breaker is good enough to allow starter current, yet protect from short circuit?

    Comment: Currently using EarthX ETX-680C in a J3 and a J4 for com radio. So far so good. J4 has a selectable voltmeter on the instrument panel (strongly recommended) and one J3 is getting same this week. EarthX hits 12.4 V, and it comes out for charge.

    Starters are currently using Odyssey 545 and 680. The 680 is older and has been mis-treated. We get 50-70 starts out of the 545 between charges (two B&Cs) and maybe 20 out of the 680 (Sky Tek). I will try the EarthX on a B&C soon. We did get the ďOptimateĒ charger.

    Just donít know enough about the EarthX yet to use it in multiple high current operations. All charging is done away from the aircraft for now.

  40. #40
    stewartb's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by CharlieN View Post
    That has been my experience with the EX as well. Even starts my Kubota tractor in the winter which had no battery in it, more than once.
    How do you feel the Noco is to the EX in cold weather?
    Other packs I have been around were not impressive. Not worth a 20 spot and they cost many times that. I would go back to carrying a PC680 again which we know is not real light.
    My only long duration experience in cold temps is with my Yamaha snowgo and that sucked the juice out of an ETX Jump
    pack and my NOCO. I can’t sat either was more impressive since the engine refused to start. That’ll be an early winter chore, dragging the Yami into town and into a shop to fix it. That’s my first Yamaha problem in a lot of years with the blue. Probably something simple for a pro. I ain’t that guy.

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