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Thread: Jump start pack

  1. #41

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    As a baseline will that Snowgo fire up now, as in before the cold sets in? Hard to base a judgement when there is some other issue, as you started.
    My starting my Kubota tractor had become a habit, heck that and our lawn tractor did not even have a battery in them, well the lawn tractor does since it utilizes an electric clutch.
    Sometimes I wonder if routinely starting the Kubota was the demise of my jump pack, but I think it has an issue other than the cells. I am unhappy that the company just refuses to service or sell a product that did them well. There excuse is Chinese competition. Being, "if I am correct" their components are made in China, the Chinese are obviously going to improve there product therefore killing sales of more expensive products.
    Having looked at online reviews of the 28650 battery cell used in jump packs and many other devices or vehicle batteries now, the Chinese made ones do not show up well in testing.
    Regards, Charlie
    Super Coupe E-AB build in process

  2. #42

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    Anyone found a small one for 28v that costs less than $250?
    Remember, These are the Good old Days!

  3. #43
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    The new EarthX Jump Pack is 12/24 volt at $289. https://earthxbatteries.com/shop/earthx-jump-pack

    Charlie, no, the sled won’t start and now the starter may be fried from trying. It all results from me changing a battery, which requires removing the triple carbs. I can’t find an error but clearly one exists. I’ll tug it to the trailer in winter. Pretty easy to do. Better tools and working conditions in the hangar.
    Last edited by stewartb; 09-19-2021 at 10:01 AM.
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  4. #44
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    FWIW: We ebikers prefer Japanese and Korean battery cells, of any type. And beware of counterfeits, labeled Panasonic for instance, but actually Chinese. It takes a battery geek to astertain the difference. Best solution is to buy anything battery
    from a well known supplier, not some no name cheapest Alibaba type.
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  5. #45

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    There are a few online comparisons of battery cells. Some of the cells I have had here for years and are not impressed with were covered in one of the comparison tests, and they were considered to be crap. I agree.
    Regards, Charlie
    Super Coupe E-AB build in process

  6. #46
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    I have two Micro Start jump packs (XP-1 and XP-10HD) and a NOCO GB50. It sure would be nice to combine the features between the two companies. Then you would have a real nice jump pack.

    The Micro Start packs have three output schemes, 5V, 12V and 19V. They come with every adapter imaginable. I use the 5V and 12V port on a regular basis. The 19V is for charging laptops which I have never used until this year when I discovered that it will charge my Berkley Marine batter that runs my electric fishing reel. That was a big plus at the time. It always surprises me what the outputs that come will Micro Starts will charge.

    The battery capacity of the Micro Starts seem to be reasonable and I have never had any issues in the rare moment that I use it to jump stuff.

    The down side of the Micro Start is the input charging scheme. The XP-1 and the XP-10 take different power supplies. How stupid is that. Also the clip lead for XP-1 and the XP-10HD are not compatible. Additionally, the XP-10HD are massive and silly clumsy to attach to an under seat battery install. I would buy standard XP-10 over the HD version as their attempt to add capability to the HD is a miserable failure at least from the standpoint of an aircraft owner.

    The NOCO-GB50 has a 5V out and 5V in port and that's it. On the extreme plus side is the 5V in for it's charging port. At first I though it quite slow but then I hooked it up to my packable solar panel that goes everywhere with me. That's a real plus to be able to use it the charge my jump pack since most all packable light weight solar panels only give you 5V USB out to charge stuff. The most appreciated part about the GB50 is the clip design. It latches right to the small terminal blocks that come with typical aircraft batteries. As far as overall capacity for charging devices I would put it closer to the XP-1 than the XP-10HD.

    The override features are different between the Micro Start and the NOCO. The Micro Start override is in the dongle on it's clip leads and is a timed circuit. I think it's duration is either 30 or 60 seconds. The NOCO's override is internal to the pack and is full on till it kills your pack. As in there are no safe guards in this mode. This is real handy for some things but keep that in mind if you hook it up to say an air pump or just do repetitive jumps. If you push it your internal lipo packs will fall right through the safe discharge threshold and your pack will go from hero to zero rapidly just as the published discharge curves on this chemistry show.

    A combination of the features between these two brands would be a worthy contender in the jump pack arena.

    Jerry
    If it looks smooth...it might be

    If it looks rough...it is!!
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  7. #47

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    Thank you for this,
    When I got out to OSH in 2017 my tablet battery had gone flat on the flight out. I had my brand new EX jump pack with me so when calling it quit for the night I plugged the tablet into the jump pack. In the morning I go to start the tablet, it had a little power in it while the jump pack was flat.
    Once things got going for the day I went over to EX booth and queried him about this. His answer, you can charge phones but the tablet battery is larger than the jump pack's.
    The EX pack has been a great tool but I feel mine died early and I wish they had the cells to rebuild it or a new 12V unit available.
    Regards, Charlie
    Super Coupe E-AB build in process

  8. #48
    stewartb's Avatar
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    Interesting about the solar panel voltage. I have a portable solar panel but never have used it. FWIW the new Jump Pack requires 15v in.

    The new unit is rated at 800a at 12v. How does that compare to the old one?

    I found my Jump Packs to be really poor at recharging cell phone, sat phone, and the Inreach. If I recall correctly Cubflier made a post a year or two ago explaining why.

  9. #49
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    The charge density of LiFe is in general lower that the other Li chemistries. Many upsides to LiFe in the aircraft word, but it takes more of it than you will see packaged in something as small as the Earth X pack to charge the communication devices we enjoy.

    Jerry
    If it looks smooth...it might be

    If it looks rough...it is!!

  10. #50
    stewartb's Avatar
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    FWIW Earth X answered my question about new vs old for capacity. The old one was 2.2Ah, the new one is 7.8Ah.
    Thanks CharlieN thanked for this post

  11. #51
    stewartb's Avatar
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    Something else that I hadn't heard of from EarthX. A battery for 28v airplanes. https://earthxbatteries.com/shop/etx900-24

  12. #52
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    The EarthX powersport batteries look like a great way to save weight. I love my Nocos. Keep on in the car, one in my boat pack and one in my tote bag.
    JP Russell--The Cub Therapist
    1947 PA-11 Cub Special

  13. #53

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    In a couple of days we head down country for our dentist appointments, a 7hr round trip, it was raining pretty hard all day. We drive my 50YO little sedan on these trips. The car has a 16YO PC680 in it and my wife left the headlights on when we got there. Driving rain and had to wit in the car due to Covid was the distraction. Oh was I happy for the EX pack, that 680 was flat. But is still in the car for our upcoming rainy trip.
    Regards, Charlie
    Super Coupe E-AB build in process

  14. #54
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    I bought a new Jump Pack. Definitely bigger and heavier. Two outputs are blended into one in parallel and series for 12v or 24v. Very elementary setup. The USB isn’t impressive for charging an iPad. That’s a little disappointing but not important to me. If I’m stuck in the boonies I’ll be happy to have more backup power but I won’t carry it in my day pack. This one will ride in whatever vehicle I’m using.

    Edit- It did charge a totally dead full size iPad Pro to 100% in 7 hours and the battery is still at full power.
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  15. #55
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    Quote Originally Posted by stewartb View Post
    Something else that I hadn't heard of from EarthX. A battery for 28v airplanes. https://earthxbatteries.com/shop/etx900-24

    I sooo wish this wasn't an experimental battery. Batteries for the turbines are tanks! and here in the desert, flooded batteries are lucky to make it 2 years
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  16. #56

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    Quote Originally Posted by stewartb View Post
    I bought a new Jump Pack. Definitely bigger and heavier.
    I do not recognize this one, got name and info on it?
    Regards, Charlie
    Super Coupe E-AB build in process

  17. #57
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    EarthX. Their new Jump Pack is the size of 4 of their old ones stacked on each other. A fully charged new Jump Pack charged 2 iPads and an iPhone before it showed signs of needing a charge and it may have had the reserves to start an engine. Not sure yet. It charges devices more slowly than I’m used to but it had the oomph to do it. That’s a win. Much more testing to do but it seems like 4x the size probably equates to 4x the power.

  18. #58

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    I opened up my "dead" EarthX jump pack to see what is up inside. Having put a meter on the output it still shows 13.5V. The work light functions fine, The charge indicator is 4 lights and it charges back to 5 lights, kind of looses that level in time.
    So it measures 13.5 but will not light up a 100W halogen bulb. If I recall that 13.5 is down from what this was a few years back.

    Upon opening, all looked fine. But the time it was open one of the "bags", the 4 cells grew to twice it's original thickness.

    I would truly like to know what the company knows about cell failures before I buy from them again.
    Regards, Charlie
    Super Coupe E-AB build in process

  19. #59
    cubflier's Avatar
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    Are you saying the cells swelled after opening? You can check each cell voltage. Ever failure I have observed in series LFP cell packs happens to a single cell, regardless of how the internal configuration is. If you get to the point of giving up on that jump pack I am interested in it's circuit board and would be happy to pay the shipping to AK. Also, can you post some photos of it's internals.

    Jerry
    If it looks smooth...it might be

    If it looks rough...it is!!

  20. #60

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    This is a single cell failure. The pack ceased operation back in the spring. I would say this had strong pressure against the case which became very noticeable in short time. I will open it up in a short while and take a few shots. Basically need to pull the circuit board off again.
    Regards, Charlie
    Super Coupe E-AB build in process

  21. #61
    cubflier's Avatar
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    Do you have a lab power supply capable of constant current and constant voltage modes? If so you can bring back your flat cell and it may come back to life. LFP is more tolerant of over discharge. I have a an ETX900 that I rebuilt that had a seriously flattened cell. Brought it back to life , rebuild the board and converted it to a fully submersible marine version. It powers my electric fishing reels, a bilge pump, and a high volume air pump for my zodiac.

    Don't give up on that thing. I bet you of all people can fix it.

    Jerry
    If it looks smooth...it might be

    If it looks rough...it is!!

  22. #62

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    I do have a power supply, have not put my hands on it in a few decades.
    My gut feeling is this cell is toast. It has expanded more since I last looked at it a few hours ago.
    I have not researched cells to try to learn what these are and what is available.
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    Regards, Charlie
    Super Coupe E-AB build in process

  23. #63
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    I have the same one Charlie. One time I used it to run the Cub after I foolishly left the master on. The jump pack was totally drained since the Cub didn't have a generator at the time. It was recharged and I used it all last winter starting my Kubota diesel with a weak battery. It did many starts and still has maintained a full charge. I have no complaints. Maybe yours just has a bad cell? Will they send you a replacement?
    N1PA

  24. #64
    cubflier's Avatar
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    I think your gut is correct. It looks like the one cell has an internal short and there is no way to save that. If it were just below threshold it would be worth a try. I would not try to charge that cell unless it were outside. Replacing one cell in a series pack like that is a bit tricky but I have done it. It takes some serious heat management and you need a vacuum based desoldering tool to effect the removal. Also the balancing circuits in these things are not that sophisticated and operate on the premiss that the 4 cells are matched when they are installed.Jerry
    If it looks smooth...it might be

    If it looks rough...it is!!

  25. #65

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    They no longer have a supply for these cells.
    I have a very old 24HP Kubota, as in one of the first 2WD grey market ones, 1972 or 73. It originally had a 300A current draw to crank it. I tossed that lead Prestolight starter and installed a new Denso unit. I no longer even have the battery tray or battery cables on it. It has a set of pigtails and I just plugged this in. Summer or winter this started it up.
    Same for my lawn tractor, I left a dead battery in it so the alternator could engage the mower clutch.

    My take on this is EX has been seeing cell failures with these. If cell prices are logical I will buy four new ones and solder up a pack. If the cost looks to be anywhere near the new 24V unit, I go that way and pray it is not short lived.
    Regards, Charlie
    Super Coupe E-AB build in process
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  26. #66

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    Quote Originally Posted by cubflier View Post
    I think your gut is correct. It looks like the one cell has an internal short and there is no way to save that. If it were just below threshold it would be worth a try. I would not try to charge that cell unless it were outside. Replacing one cell in a series pack like that is a bit tricky but I have done it. It takes some serious heat management and you need a vacuum based desoldering tool to effect the removal. Also the balancing circuits in these things are not that sophisticated and operate on the premiss that the 4 cells are matched when they are installed.Jerry
    My thoughts are to see what similar cells are available and consider soldering up something.
    I have a good soldering station and desoldering tools.
    I have no clue how close the match would be if buying 4 cells from China, but right now is not the time to buy there. A recent order coming by air has a 45 to 60 day travel, not the 3 to 5 days of just months ago. This world has gone nuts.
    Regards, Charlie
    Super Coupe E-AB build in process

  27. #67
    cubflier's Avatar
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    Assuming you get legitimate cells I would guess the match will be just fine. To replace a single old cell with a new cell that has a different year of manufacture would be a bad move. I took an old ETX36C that has two series packs in parallel and could use the used cell from one and move it to the other pack. In Alaska we can't buy individual cells so you are in good shape for replacing the cells with new. Up here it's all scrounge from old stuff. Soldering new cells should be fine especially if you can get a blank series board to connect them. If you have to salvage the old board on top it will be a bit of work and you have to be careful to not short things or overheat the board which could lift the traces.

    I would also look at the other side of your board and you will see the balance circuitry. Make sure there is no sign of any cracks in those components. My guess is your board is intact.

    Good luck.

    Jerry
    If it looks smooth...it might be

    If it looks rough...it is!!

  28. #68

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    Looking at the Pouch cells online they look to have two flexible tabs out one end. I know nothing more than that.
    Well other than if EX says they lost their supplier I know not to even try to match anything.
    I did just move the pack further from the house since that cell is getting fatter.
    Regards, Charlie
    Super Coupe E-AB build in process

  29. #69

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    I have no clue yet how close these are but the top one is visually similar to the EX cell.

    https://www.servovision.com/LifePo4%...ch%20Cell.html
    Regards, Charlie
    Super Coupe E-AB build in process
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  30. #70
    cubflier's Avatar
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    I was going to PM you about the potential of an internal short in a hot cell. Moving it is a great idea. I would snip all balance wires ONE AT A TIME and tape the ends. I cannot see the main output wires in the picture but it should be obvious. Try to just separate the main board completely from the battery pack making sure not to cross any balance wires. This will clue you in whether the short is internal to the cell of is on the board. I do see an indentation on one of cells and assume you know not to make any sharp indentations on these pouch cells or you make cause a Nokia moment. I have a pack I built up that shows the top of a pack I built from the expired 36C. I do have some photos of the pack rebuild process on my phone that I can upload when I find my normal charge cord (if you are interested). Usually there is a connecting board on top of these packs that's under that protective foam where your balance wires go to the pack. The packs are arranged opposite each other to form a series and the balance wires connect at each cell. I'd be surprised if there is no connecting board on top but it is possible to do, just seems more hazardous.

    FYI - any time I work on this stuff I keep fireplace gloves and a burn bucket handy.

    Also if this is getting boring or distracting from the thread I'm happy to discuss elsewhere.

    Have fun - Jerry
    If it looks smooth...it might be

    If it looks rough...it is!!
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  31. #71

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    Quote Originally Posted by cubflier View Post
    Also if this is getting boring or distracting from the thread I'm happy to discuss elsewhere.
    I was/am enjoying the discussion. I have some experience with other cell chemistries but have never opened or attempted to repair any type of Lithium battery.
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  32. #72

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    Yes, if someone wants to move this portion of this thread feel free to do so. To me it is intriguing to learn the failure mode. I remember back years ago when some new to the market batteries turned out to only be a step away from a bomb.

    In this, the bloating cell is not much warmer than the other three. I have the unit in a baggie and on a granite bench in front of the house. Not sure if we are getting snow or rain later but this should be fine.

    This has a balance/charge board up top. The usb power out etc.
    I started at lifting the pack out of the case but clearly with the swollen cell it will take some effort. I will go back at it in the morning with decent protective gear on.
    Part of me wonders if I should snip the balance wires now as you state or just wait for my session in the morning. The devices on the board are smaller than my aging eyes can see, at least without my double stack of Magoo lenses on.
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    Regards, Charlie
    Super Coupe E-AB build in process

  33. #73

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    I snapped a decent shot and then snipped the balance wires.

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    Super Coupe E-AB build in process

  34. #74
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    Most all of the repairs to board like this are done under a microscope. I have an optical scope for soldering and a digital one for parts ID and cataloging the repair since I have no memory. If you have a flat bed scanner that is an excellent way to picture the board. There may be tall stuff on the back side that will prevent it. If you have any high resolution camera a clear picture of the other side of the board would be helpful. Once the pack cools down you can see if the cells have any labeling that will guide you to cell replacement. Cell size is sort of important for expansion abatement otherwise if your new assembled pack is smaller you need to sleeve the pack with pvc. In the first photo there is a piece of foam near the bottom of the pack. That piece is important and should be replaced. Take lots of photos as even the foam spacers can have a purpose. Last but not least is the actual harness that plugs into the outside of pack may or may not have circuitry in it. The shape of it is an obvious tell in that it will have a relay and supporting circuitry in an L shaped case on the end of the leads.

    Jerry
    If it looks smooth...it might be

    If it looks rough...it is!!

  35. #75

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    Good info, My camera is not up to the newest as far as imagery but a lady friend up the road has rather good stuff.

    The direct output harness only has a fuse in it. Input from the wall is 15V DC, never paid attention to regulation but being you can plug an input from a running car I would say any regulation is on the main board. I had taken a quick look at the board, it did not strike me as being complex. The devices were small, very small. The coating did not strike me as being very thick, but probably no need to be. I think there were some heat signitures. I will look at this early tomorrow.
    Regards, Charlie
    Super Coupe E-AB build in process

  36. #76
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    Any tips on safely disposing of a bloated or dead battery? I have one EarthX jump pack that does not take a charge, but still appears to be in decent physical condition. I have another pack from a different manufacturer that is very bloated, though stable and not ballooning any more. I'd like to get rid of them but don't feel good about tossing them in the dumpster.

  37. #77
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    Quote Originally Posted by fancypants View Post
    Any tips on safely disposing of a bloated or dead battery? I have one EarthX jump pack that does not take a charge, but still appears to be in decent physical condition. I have another pack from a different manufacturer that is very bloated, though stable and not ballooning any more. I'd like to get rid of them but don't feel good about tossing them in the dumpster.
    Check with any local battery suppliers. Most have some kind of collection program for old batteries.

    Web
    Life's tough . . . wear a cup.

  38. #78
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    Charlie or Jerry might like the Jump Pack for parts?

  39. #79

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    Stewart is correct, I am interested.
    Regards, Charlie
    Super Coupe E-AB build in process

  40. #80
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    I had to sit on my hands on this one knowing Charlie was first in line. You now have all the parts you need to make one working Jump Pack.

    Jerry
    If it looks smooth...it might be

    If it looks rough...it is!!

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    By okmike in forum Member to Member
    Replies: 15
    Last Post: 11-15-2013, 10:07 AM

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