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Prospective buyer seeking input on PA-12 value.

pcj_5189 said:
Haven't looked into it. I'm not sure I am up for a build. I don't have the space to do it and I know my own limitations. Looks like a nice option for someone wanting to take on a build though.
Click to expand...
Alternatively, if you find a really nice stock -12 well within your budget, don't pass it up. You can improve the take off performance by twisting the prop to a lower pitch or change the prop to a longer diameter with a lower pitch. The sacrifice will be in cruise speed. Then later you could exchange the engine for an 0-320 at your leisure. In the meantime you would have your flying machine.
 
Here's an old 12 that had an STC'd 150hp O-320 with the stock small tail feathers and 80/44 Sensenich wood prop. It was light and performed pretty well!

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warming up
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I've owned my -12 for 35 years---flew it initially with 0-235, then 150 hp, and now 160. It was a sweet flying airplane in original configuration but the baggage area was inadequate for my mission (back country camping). So after a few years I added extended baggage, hung an 0-320 on the original long mount (which required balanced elevators), and -18 extended gear. It wasn't quite the "cloud dancer" anymore, but fit my mission better. I have since added 31 inch Bushwheels, 160 hp and Borer prop. I agree with everything others have already said---but don't discount the 0-235---it's a great engine if you keep the airplane light!20190307_143257.jpg
 

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skywagon8a said:
Unless you are one with two thumbs, have you considered building your own? A wide fuselage Javron -18 kit will fit within your budget. As you are building it up your bank account will be building enabling you to be able to come up with the cash for an engine and prop a year or two down the road. When you are done your plane will be all new to your specs.
Click to expand...

There's been a lot of people who've went down the rabbit hole of building their own airplane,
and never found their way out again​
Unless they have both experience AND talent,
most people will take a long long time to complete their homebuilt airplane--
even if it's a quick-build kit or already partially complete.
A large number will fizzle out and never actually finish & fly it.
Personally I would probably fall into the last category--
that's why I've bought flying airplanes, not projects.
I enjoy tinkering, but prefer flying to building.
A "flyable project" would suit me much better,
I suspect the same is true of a lot of other folks.
 
hotrod180 said:
There's been a lot of people who've went down the rabbit hole of building their own airplane,
and never found their way out again​
Unless they have both experience AND talent,
most people will take a long long time to complete their homebuilt airplane--
even if it's a quick-build kit or already partially complete.
A large number will fizzle out and never actually finish & fly it.
Personally I would probably fall into the last category--
that's why I've bought flying airplanes, not projects.
I enjoy tinkering, but prefer flying to building.
A "flyable project" would suit me much better,
I suspect the same is true of a lot of other folks.
Click to expand...

Like you, I don't mind some tinkering but building an entire plane would make my head explode. Kudos to those who are up for that kind of challenge, but I'm definitely not cut out for that.
 
StewB,
Although a 12 with an 0320 with an 18 tail may 'not apeal to you' as anything but a 'project' is fine. However probably nothing but a handmade one of a kind, experimental at $300k is the only thing that floats your boat?
This guy is looking for something to get flying with a Cub wing, without spending $75/80,000 an 18 may bring.
He apparently feels like an airplane that will operate out of 300' is more than adequate for his mission.
Alot of guys flying 12s love them because you can haul 2 normal sized folks in them ??? They have noticeably better aileron control in gusty wind.???
You can add an upper baggage in them for peanuts??? And they are half price??? IF one needs a 150' airplane thats fine, however most DONT.
Fact is if you need to operate in/out of less than 300' ( your now into the 1%)
Than a 200hp, monster flaped, leading edge slated , tricked out Cub is the answer.
But that isnt relivant to his question is it???

Sent from my LM-X210 using SuperCub.Org mobile app
 
I asked what the allure of a -12 was. There’s a big difference between a stock -12 and one that’s modified with big motor, flaps, big baggage, Cub gear, and big tires. Both have merit. The plane he described is somewhere in the middle. It won’t be that nicely balanced sweet flyer the stock plane was and it doesn’t have a balanced mods package to make it perform like a Supercub. A guy without -12 experience may not have a good perspective of what he’s looking at. I had a great -12. Now I have a fire breathing exp Cub. My next plane, if I do another? A simple, nicely balanced 90 hp Cub Special sounds like fun.

You’re welcome to disagree with anything I say but that doesn’t mean I’m wrong. It’s just my opinion.
 
Well a 90hp Cub Special would of course be a dream to fly because of the near perfect balance they have.

I think the balance of a stock 12 thats still under a thousand pounds is also very desirable.

A properly sidesliped 12 ;will land into a spot it most certainly will never come out of with the 0235 regardless of the prop. That wont be true of an 0320 /12 with a Borer or Catto.
About 'ANY PA12' with 0320 and long flat prop thats 1100lbs or under will be able to operate in and out of 300'.

So again the merits of flaps, extended 18 gear, are wonderful mods. H)owever they can approach 50% of the price of the whole airplane. They will realisticlly cost $(20k) So they are VERY expensive mods............ For an Alaskan Guide, probably a necessity.
For many of others, probably not a necessity at all.

Like yours Stew; just my opinion, after flying a bunch of different Cruisers....

At $35/40k a 0320 /12 is a great airplane for many......... HUGE bang for the buck, in today's world of overpriced airplanes.

I recently looked at a nice experimental Piper with an 0360, and big flaps, cost $80 grand. But for my personal mission; it just didnt do $40,000 MORE than my old 12 does.
Jmho.

Sent from my LM-X210 using SuperCub.Org mobile app
 
Hey guys, input from all perspectives is greatly appreciated. Even though I am not in NEED of a super STOL setup, it is good to hear from someone who uses their plane for that mission. Just as valuable is to hear from those with opinions about the benefits or drawbacks of a lesser modified airplane. I can learn from anyone who is willing to share their opinions and experiences. Again, I thank everyone for their contribution to the discussion. Aviation is a wonderful thing in that we all share a passion. Even though we may enjoy it in different ways, we will always share that common bond.
 
pcj_5189 said:
Hey guys, input from all perspectives is greatly appreciated. Even though I am not in NEED of a super STOL setup, it is good to hear from someone who uses their plane for that mission. Just as valuable is to hear from those with opinions about the benefits or drawbacks of a lesser modified airplane. I can learn from anyone who is willing to share their opinions and experiences. Again, I thank everyone for their contribution to the discussion. Aviation is a wonderful thing in that we all share a passion. Even though we may enjoy it in different ways, we will always share that common bond.
Click to expand...

Hey pcj_5189, You
can be a cheap skate like me and ‘Roll your Own’ 8)

https://vimeo.com/343232959
 
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