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Thread: 830 lb Carbon Cub?

  1. #1

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    830 lb Carbon Cub?

    I was told, twice, by it's owner this weekend it only weighed 830 pounds, I was amazed at the time but afterwards started thinking.... and did a little research. Cub Crafter's own lightest claim is 930 pounds, for an early model, and with a 0-200. This one had 180 hp, 20 gallon fuel tanks, there is no way it weighed what it's owner claimed. Unless I am going deaf worse (or deafer worser) then I thought, I am positive about his stated number. He is the second owner, FWIW. A real nice guy, and my BS meter at the time didn't go off at all, so I'm thinking he really thinks it weighs what he thinks, and someone needs to tell him, "no way," pun intended. I know from comments here that any cub like bird approaching less then 1000 pounds is noteworthy, but 830?!
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  2. #2
    PerryB's Avatar
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    I'd say he's a solid 200 lbs. short.
    After Monday and Tuesday, even the calendar says WTF !
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  3. #3
    BC12D-4-85's Avatar
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    Weigh the plane.

    Gary
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  4. #4
    mvivion's Avatar
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    Maybe he just needs to actually calculate a weight and balance once. Cause 830 is a fairy tale, and I’ll bet the paperwork doesn’t agree with that number.

    MTV
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  5. #5

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    Very few, if any airplanes weigh what the owner thinks. Always been that way, always will be. His plane, his deal.
    Mark

  6. #6

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    I think all pilots may fudge a bit when the weight of their planes, but this seemed off enough to catch my attention and make me wonder. In no way do I want to cast any aspersions on it's owner, more of a general interest in light planes in general and how to make them even lighter.

    Right now for instance, I am seriously considering removing my right hand door (the S-7 has 2) since the left one is my door of choice for ingress/exit due to the way my hangar and runway is laid out. I have not opened it for a couple years! Framing in and covering the space would save....maybe 5 pounds, I need to run some material weight numbers. I am also upgrading my ailerons to the newer system Rans has that gets rid of the spades, their attach hardware, and lead counter balance, another few pounds, plus lighter and quicker roll. SO, this 830 pound statement got my attention and I feel better now knowing it's not likely. If so...I wanted to know the secret.

  7. #7
    PerryB's Avatar
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    Just my $.02, but I'd keep the door. God forbid, it could potentially be a lifesaver someday.....
    After Monday and Tuesday, even the calendar says WTF !
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  8. #8

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    Picture. instead of doubt, find out how he did it.

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    I just finished the EX-2 kit and came in at 930lbs using some upgrades and Stits Poly Fiber covering system. I fought the gaining of weight thru out the build (the plane not me).

    I suspect that the plane in question did not have any upgrades (no 3X3 gear, extended range tanks,...), very simple panel and covered in Oratex. I did a lot of investigation into Oratex before covering and it had big weight saving claims.

    The factory LS aircraft comes in around 900. I believe that they do not exceed the 900 for certification purposes.

    It seems like the subject of airplane weight is similar to fuel mileage on the diesel forums. I never get the mileage everyone else does.
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  10. #10
    RaisedByWolves's Avatar
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    What I have learned during rebuilding a light weight supercub, is everyone’s weight saving estimate is grossly over estimated. If I added up the “you’ll save 10 lbs by using my product” I’d have a 400lb cub. With that being said I do have a 1070 empty cub on 31” bushwheels that I weighed after the restoration. It does help by putting the light weight stuff on but not as much as they say.


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  11. #11
    flyrite's Avatar
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    Planes with legacy engines and practices built as light as possible will all come in around 800 to 900 lbs. Single seat Acro mounts bout the same! An all carbon fiber mount would shave another 100 or so pounds , These numbers ain’t changed since I been paying attention.
    Last edited by flyrite; 11-04-2019 at 01:12 PM.

  12. #12

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    Quote Originally Posted by flyrite View Post
    Planes with legacy engines and practices built as light as possible will all come in around 800 to 900 lbs. Single seat Acro mounts bout the same! A all carbon fiber mount would shave another 100 or so pounds , These numbest ain’t changed since I been paying attention.
    most of these guys have 200 lbs of garmin in there rigs.
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  13. #13
    txpacer's Avatar
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    How much does that tank of smoke oil weigh?

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by courierguy View Post
    I was told, twice, by it's owner this weekend it only weighed 830 pounds, I was amazed at the time but afterwards started thinking.... and did a little research. Cub Crafter's own lightest claim is 930 pounds, for an early model, and with a 0-200. This one had 180 hp, 20 gallon fuel tanks, there is no way it weighed what it's owner claimed. Unless I am going deaf worse (or deafer worser) then I thought, I am positive about his stated number. He is the second owner, FWIW. A real nice guy, and my BS meter at the time didn't go off at all, so I'm thinking he really thinks it weighs what he thinks, and someone needs to tell him, "no way," pun intended. I know from comments here that any cub like bird approaching less then 1000 pounds is noteworthy, but 830?!
    My EX is serial #11 with an O-340. My original weight was 953 on 6" tires and 3200 tail wheel. A few things made it heavier than your friend's; the 44 gallon tanks and an extended baggage I made for it. Those two items probably added 25 pounds +.

    I put it on 31's and added a Baby Bushwheel and the weight is a few pounds under 1000 now.

    My guess is your friend's weighed 930 not 830 and that was on little tires.

    The newer EX2 and EX3's have gained weight over the original EX.
    "Fast is fine, but accuracy is everything." Wyatt Earp

  15. #15
    MN_flyer1's Avatar
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    The family Super Cub weighed 899lb when we completed the rebuild in '88. That was pretty much stock except for Cleveland W&B. '50 105 Special. No Electric with flaps. Just hard to beat the performance of a light weight cub. My father used it as a spray plane from 1965 thru early 70's. It would carry the belly tank full. At one time he had a 135 Cub that he used as well. It couldn't haul near the load.....

    Tim
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  16. #16
    Scouter's Avatar
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    Ive had 1 sport cub, and now on the third CarbonCub SS. The sport cub was under 900 lbs, seems like it was 875 or so cant remember.
    All three of the Carbon cubs were 930-980 from the factory, with the earlier one lighter. You can def feel the difference in 40-50 lbs.
    I know where there is one for sale that has almost zero options from the factory. basic instruments, 600 tires, all stock, and that one is 897 on the weight and balance
    thats the lightest one i have seen. Your friend either has the prize winner, or he needs a new set of glasses. the biggest problem is the limitation on the light sport 1320 gross.
    That really needs to be increased, and I guesss its being talked about

    Jim
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  17. #17

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    I saw the panel placard, cautioning anyone flying it, at what revs and at what altitude, they needed to keep it under in order to keep it a legal LSA. I kept a straight face while reading it.

    There is a similar thing going on in the ebike ( I have 3) world right now: certain classes of ebikes, defined by their speed and power, qualify as a bicycle still (the lower powered and slower ones) while the more capable ones are treated as motorized vehicles, sort of. This determines where one can legally ride it. I suggested on one bike forum a similar tactic to the one Cub Crafter came up with, a high power ebike with a carefully worded placard clearly stating what power setting it must be held below in order to meet the requirements. Thanks CC for leading the way, brilliant! Here's a shot taken yesterday, on a lunch run to Alpine Wyoming, showing the practicality of my 38 MPH eMontague conversion being put to good use, 2 miles from the airstrip.
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  18. #18

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    >>I am also upgrading my ailerons to the newer system Rans has that gets rid of the spades, their attach hardware, and lead counter balance, another few pounds, plus lighter and quicker roll.<<

    I thought the purpose of spades was to GIVE light and quicker roll.

    >>
    Right now for instance, I am seriously considering removing my right hand door (the S-7 has 2) since the left one is my door of choice for ingress/exit due to the way my hangar and runway is laid out. I have not opened it for a couple years!<<

    I’d be concerned that 5# would come at the cost of a lost of work and expense plus a loss in resale value.

  19. #19

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    >>It seems like the subject of airplane weight is similar to fuel mileage on the diesel forums. I never get the mileage everyone else does.<<

    A friend says he thinks the main purpose for his diesel motorhome owner’s group rallies is to “sit around drinking beer and lying about their mileage”.
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  20. #20

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    >>It does help by putting the light weight stuff on but not as much as they say.<<

    Much like speed enhancement mods.

  21. #21
    Tim's Avatar
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    I friend just completed a Carbon Cub, last week, his weights 1038. Bigger fuel tanks, and probably to much paint if that makes any difference

    Sent from my Pixel 2 using SuperCub.Org mobile app

  22. #22

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    Quote Originally Posted by neoflyer View Post
    >>I am also upgrading my ailerons to the newer system Rans has that gets rid of the spades, their attach hardware, and lead counter balance, another few pounds, plus lighter and quicker roll.<<

    I thought the purpose of spades was to GIVE light and quicker roll.

    >>
    Right now for instance, I am seriously considering removing my right hand door (the S-7 has 2) since the left one is my door of choice for ingress/exit due to the way my hangar and runway is laid out. I have not opened it for a couple years!<<

    I’d be concerned that 5# would come at the cost of a lost of work and expense plus a loss in resale value.
    I'm told by those who know, that the newer hinge system, is lighter and quicker, though I'm happy with the way it is now. I'll change it over just to save a few pounds, and a little drag, and still from time to time, save banging my head on them! Any other favorable change in the control feel and response would be just a bonus.

    Yeah, when I was covering the fuselage was the time to lose the door, so short of a major project it'll stay as is. Many S-7's have one door, like Cubs, but done that way scratch.

  23. #23

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    Just wondering, courierguy - can you fit that eMontague in your Cub? With or without rear seat, etc?

  24. #24
    Rick Papp's Avatar
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    My Carboncub EX came in at 963 With everything in the airplane including the paperwork. I made an effort to keep this an honest weight.
    Never stay level!!!!!
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  25. #25
    Rick Papp's Avatar
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    Click image for larger version. 

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    Never stay level!!!!!
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  26. #26

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    You forgot the cowl flaps.

    Just being a smart __s. Nice looking CC.

  27. #27
    Rick Papp's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by aeroaddict View Post
    You forgot the cowl flaps.

    Just being a smart __s. Nice looking CC.
    LOL. That picture was before I weighed it. Notice there are no scales underneath it. When I did weigh it anything that was not attached to the airplane that was supposed to be on the weight and balance was placed on or inside the airplane before the weight was taken. 😀
    Never stay level!!!!!

  28. #28

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    Quote Originally Posted by PandaCub View Post
    Just wondering, courierguy - can you fit that eMontague in your Cub? With or without rear seat, etc?
    Can't fit the bike in my Cub, since I don't have one! But it fits fine in my RANS S-7S thanks to the big doors, as in long. The rear tire jams up tight against the fuselage station in front of the main baggage area, and the rest pretty much hangs from the overhead structure. 4 tie down points, not counting the rear seat belt which I usually thread thru the rear wheel. Enough room left over between the bike and the cargo deck to carry a couple small packs, and/or my 9 gallon Nauta fuel bladder as a ferry tank. I could not have designed it better, just dumb luck. The rear seat pulls out and the cargo deck takes it's place, that takes a minute. It's never moved, even when taking a ride up onto the spinner, in a crash, ANYTHING behind me wouldn't be good, a risk I'm obviously willing to take for the utility I get of having wheels once I touchdown.

    3 minutes from touch down to riding off. The belly torpedo is my battery carrier, 23 AH @ 52 VDC, enough for over 50 miles of riding. I can charge in flight, and monitor the voltage on the panel. Today I flew 100 miles to Copper Basin, Idaho's highest strip at 7800'+ and then rode it's circumference, 25+ miles, perfect WX with mid 40's temps, gotta get it while the gettings good!
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  29. #29
    Steve Pierce's Avatar
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    I think people should post their total airplane weight prior to fuel
    1132 lb Super Cub
    150 lb pilot
    1282 lb airplane and pilot.
    Steve Pierce

    Everybody is ignorant, only on different subjects.
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  30. #30

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    Quote Originally Posted by Steve Pierce View Post
    I think people should post their total airplane weight prior to fuel
    1132 lb Super Cub
    150 lb pilot
    1282 lb airplane and pilot.
    Which weight will get lied about most.....plane or pilot?

  31. #31

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    Wing loading, power loading. Comparing airplane and pilot weight is meaningless. Wing and power are what makes them fly.

  32. #32
    Steve Pierce's Avatar
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    What is the empty weight of your Backcountry Super Cub and the wing loading compared to my certified Super Cub?
    Steve Pierce

    Everybody is ignorant, only on different subjects.
    Will Rogers

  33. #33

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    From another thread. Your cub might be 160hp so adjust as necessary. My new motor will be up 20 hp from the old so I’ll need to adjust, too.

    From this thread, post #63- https://www.supercub.org/forum/showt...g-to-buy/page2

    I ran lots of PL and WL numbers when I was deciding what plane to build and why. These are derived from manufacturer's specs. The only honest empty weight report is by BCSC.

    Just SS XL wing loading empty- 6.8
    gross- 11.75
    power loading empty- 5.0
    gross- 8.16


    Carbon Cub FX3 WL empty- 5.23
    gross- 10.84
    power loading empty- 4.83
    gross- 10.02

    BCSC Rev 2 WL Empty- 6.47
    gross- 10.7
    power loading empty- 6.17
    gross- 10.2

    Stock Supercub 1100#/1750# @150hp
    WL empty- 6.16
    gross- 9.8
    PL empty- 7.66
    gross- 11.66

    For grins, how does my own 180 stack up?
    WL- 10.34 empty
    18.33 gross
    PL 6.54 empty
    11.6 gross.
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  34. #34
    Flyingde's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by KevinJ View Post
    Which weight will get lied about most.....plane or pilot?

    I am a 32 waist but 34's fit me so well I just go ahead and buy 36's.....

  35. #35
    TurboBeaver's Avatar
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    This 830lb Cub weight issue was actually solved back in 1958.
    It was discussed in detail and actually
    Later became a hit record! Seriously check out the link!
    https://youtu.be/qxWZT0PXkGg
    E

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