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Thread: Pmags in the heat. Or slicks

  1. #1

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    Pmags in the heat. Or slicks

    I have no experience with Pmags or Electronic Ignition . I am concerned with this blast tube cooling as I run in very hot and cold conditions . Also can you hand swing to start with Electonic ignition. Any suggestions appreciated. I would prefer Mags but have issues fitting .

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    tcraft128's Avatar
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    What is very hot? I fly in the summer in SE georgia and I have no problems with my PMAGS.
    Turning money into noise since 1996

    Our Build here

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  3. #3

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    ​did you have to fit blast tubes

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    Hell, I live in Alaska and I have blast tubes on my Pmags. It's the standard installation and seems to have resolved early installation heat failures. You might prefer Lightspeed or EFII. I've considered switching to EFII's newest ignition but I have better things to chase first.

    I heard a story about Pmags not starting with low battery but the story is that the starter seems to pull too much current and the Pmags won't fire, but they fire perfectly with a flick of the prop by hand. I'm glad to have heard about it before I experienced it on my own.
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    CamTom12's Avatar
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    Pmags in the heat. Or slicks

    Blast tubes are super easy to install. I’ll find some pictures of mine and post them up here in a minute. I’ve had zero pmag issues in Alabama.

    And you can hand prop as long as you have power applied to the pmags. I’ve heard of some folks using a 9v battery to do that but don’t have any experience with it.

    EDIT: added pics

    The first two show the tube inlets at the top. Just a 1” aluminum flange, around $9 each.

    Then a couple of lengths of 1” SCAT, around $5 per foot. I think I used 2 or 2.5 feet total.

    Secured with zip ties and safety wire.





    Last edited by CamTom12; 10-29-2019 at 10:00 PM.
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    tcraft128's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lowleveldevil View Post
    ​did you have to fit blast tubes
    Yes, Blast tubes are a required part of the install.
    Turning money into noise since 1996

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  7. #7

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    Anything but slicks!!! If you do mags get Bendix.

    DENNY
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    For those of us with (small) alternators, batteries, no starters, but with dual slick/bendix mags, my wiring is pretty straight forward.

    Anyone have any diagrams showing how one might power a p-mag off the battery but not off the master so it is not being powered full time? I believe p-mags will self-excite after a certain low(?) RPM, so is it as simple as wiring a completely separate mag bus that comes directly off the battery, then turning it off after startup? I hand prop with the master off and don't bring the avionics alive until ready to taxi, but would need to excite the mag enough to let me hand-prop...
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    Quote Originally Posted by motosix View Post
    For those of us with (small) alternators, batteries, no starters, but with dual slick/bendix mags, my wiring is pretty straight forward.

    Anyone have any diagrams showing how one might power a p-mag off the battery but not off the master so it is not being powered full time? I believe p-mags will self-excite after a certain low(?) RPM, so is it as simple as wiring a completely separate mag bus that comes directly off the battery, then turning it off after startup? I hand prop with the master off and don't bring the avionics alive until ready to taxi, but would need to excite the mag enough to let me hand-prop...
    My understanding is that once the pmags reach a self-powering state, they stop drawing from ship power automatically.

    A call to the Emagair could explain better: https://emagair.com/contact-us/
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    Quote Originally Posted by motosix View Post
    For those of us with (small) alternators, batteries, no starters, but with dual slick/bendix mags, my wiring is pretty straight forward.

    Anyone have any diagrams showing how one might power a p-mag off the battery but not off the master so it is not being powered full time? I believe p-mags will self-excite after a certain low(?) RPM, so is it as simple as wiring a completely separate mag bus that comes directly off the battery, then turning it off after startup? I hand prop with the master off and don't bring the avionics alive until ready to taxi, but would need to excite the mag enough to let me hand-prop...
    Experimental=experiment. It should be simple to
    do.

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    LLD, This is what I'd use if I was starting over.

    https://www.flyefii.com/products/ignition-systems/

  12. #12

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    Quote Originally Posted by stewartb View Post
    LLD, This is what I'd use if I was starting over.

    https://www.flyefii.com/products/ignition-systems/
    These require a flywheel to allow crank position triggering via magnets.

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    Quote Originally Posted by motosix View Post
    For those of us with (small) alternators, batteries, no starters, but with dual slick/bendix mags, my wiring is pretty straight forward.

    Anyone have any diagrams showing how one might power a p-mag off the battery but not off the master so it is not being powered full time? I believe p-mags will self-excite after a certain low(?) RPM, so is it as simple as wiring a completely separate mag bus that comes directly off the battery, then turning it off after startup? I hand prop with the master off and don't bring the avionics alive until ready to taxi, but would need to excite the mag enough to let me hand-prop...
    The self energizing rpm is too high to keep the engine running in your scenario. The installation instructions describe how to wire in a separate 9 volt battery for hand starting.
    N1PA

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    Quote Originally Posted by motosix View Post
    These require a flywheel to allow crank position triggering via magnets.
    My comment was for Lowlevel. Do you have an alternator? If so, you could use TCW IBBS backup battery system to power a Pmag when the master was off. Or you could do the same with a non-mechanical electronic ignition and have start current as well as backup battery.

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    Quote Originally Posted by stewartb View Post
    My comment was for Lowlevel. Do you have an alternator? If so, you could use TCW IBBS backup battery system to power a Pmag when the master was off. Or you could do the same with a non-mechanical electronic ignition and have start current as well as backup battery.
    That was the crux of my initial question: I was curious what the 9volt battery (or backup battery) circuit looks like for pmag initial power. It sounds like an example of that circuit may be found in the installation manual for the pmags, so I will see what Google can turn up there.

    To answer your question: I do have a small 8AMP B&C alternator which is plenty for my current draw, and my EarthX is way more battery than I actually need since it doesn't drive a starter. It is now an extremely simple electrical system which was the goal (not even a key switch for the mags; just two toggles), but I can't deny the potential upsides to p-mags hence my interest in this thread.

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    Quote Originally Posted by motosix View Post
    That was the crux of my initial question: I was curious what the 9volt battery (or backup battery) circuit looks like for pmag initial power. It sounds like an example of that circuit may be found in the installation manual for the pmags, so I will see what Google can turn up there.

    To answer your question: I do have a small 8AMP B&C alternator which is plenty for my current draw, and my EarthX is way more battery than I actually need since it doesn't drive a starter. It is now an extremely simple electrical system which was the goal (not even a key switch for the mags; just two toggles), but I can't deny the potential upsides to p-mags hence my interest in this thread.
    How big is your earthx? Mine has no issues turning a starter. Or running pmags at low rpm.

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    Quote Originally Posted by CamTom12 View Post
    How big is your earthx? Mine has no issues turning a starter. Or running pmags at low rpm.
    When I had a starter, I could damn near taxi on the EarthX alone. If I pulled the spark plugs, I might even have been able to get up into ground effect before smoking the starter. These batteries are pretty amazing.

    So, I don't actually believe I need a 9Volt battery since I have some many amp/hours in the EarthX. I was initially just hoping for a diagram out of curiosity. Your info was helpful.
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    Gordon Misch's Avatar
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    So, I don't actually believe I need a 9Volt battery since I have some many amp/hours in the EarthX.
    Until you accidentally leave the master on!
    Gordon

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  19. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by motosix View Post
    So, I don't actually believe I need a 9Volt battery since I have some many amp/hours in the EarthX. I was initially just hoping for a diagram out of curiosity. Your info was helpful.
    Where is your EarthX located? How long will the wire be between the battery and your new Pmag switch? That wire will always be hot which defeats the primary purpose of a battery master switch. It might be a good idea to place a fuse or C/B at the battery in this new circuit similar to the original PA-18 system.
    N1PA

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