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Thread: Engine STC for the O-320-E2A? SA2038WE?

  1. #1

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    Engine STC for the O-320-E2A? SA2038WE?

    Hello all,

    So I might be able to get a hold of an O-320-E2A for my PA-12(currently equipped with an O-290-D2). Now I am trying to find an STC for it via the FAA site. But I have only find one, SA2038WE(unable to link) that belongs to an Harold Nelson. The STC seems quite old(amended 1974) and there is only a physical address. How do I get a hold of this STC?

    Do you know of any other STCs for this engine?

    Kind regards Niklas

    The details from the FAA Database:
    TC Number:
    SA2038WE

    This certificate issued to:
    Nelson Harold G

    STC Holder's Address:
    3005 S.W. Marshall St.
    PendletonOR97801
    United States

    Description of the Type Design Change:
    Installation of Lycoming O-320 series engine, McCauley 1A170/1C172 and Sensenich M74DM propellers and associated alternator systems.

    Application Date:
    06/16/1969

    Status:
    Amended, 03/07/1974

    Responsible Office:
    Seattle ACO Branch, Tel: +1 (206) 231-3500

    TC Number -- Make -- Model:
    A-780 -- FS 2003 Corp. -- PA-12

  2. #2
    TurboBeaver's Avatar
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    One of the most common ones used is the Kenmore Air STC.
    Simple mod basically just requires 18 tailfeathers and sleaving the lower engine mount tubes. Call Kenmore they should be able to hook ya up.
    Good Luck
    E
    PS.
    Just looked at the STC on their website and for some unknown reason( my have conflicted with STC your researching) the "E" engine is NOT listed on their STC.......
    Sorry about any confusion.

    Sent from my LM-X210 using SuperCub.Org mobile app
    Last edited by TurboBeaver; 10-20-2019 at 01:51 AM.

  3. #3
    Steve Pierce's Avatar
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    Doesn't the E2A have a dynafocal mount and or an offset carburetor to oil sump. Don't have the Type Certificate Data Sheet handy for the O-320 series but it will tell you.
    Steve Pierce

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  4. #4
    CamTom12's Avatar
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    I think the distinguishing features on the E2A are a straight riser oil sump, -32 carb, dynafocal mount, fixed-pitch crank, and 150hp (7:1 compression).

    That’s not from the TCDS though, so please fact check me. I have a motor that’s made from E2D and A2B parts so I’ve done a little research on the -Exx models. But nothing exhaustive.

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    Crosswinds lists the E2D on their 150hp PA-12 STC. FWIW.
    Likes CopperD liked this post

  6. #6
    hotrod180's Avatar
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    E2A & E2D are dynafocal mounts.
    I'm no expert, but don't think I've ever seen a SC with a dynafocal 320.

    BTW I was looking over a Maule MXT-180 yesterday,
    and was surprised that the engine was NOT a dynafocal.
    Again, not an expert but I don't think I've ever seen a 360 that wasn't a dynafocal.
    Cessna Skywagon-- accept no substitute!

  7. #7
    TurboBeaver's Avatar
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    I think Stew is correct, Charlie may have the only current STC available for an E series engine......
    I remember some of these old STC like " seaplane door" for Champs,
    When old guy died in Minnesota that held it the STC seams to have gone away with him????
    Wonder if same is true on that old STC for E series he is trying to find.
    E

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    If memory serves I have two friends whose former PA-12s used the Nelson STC. Does anyone know what mount they used? Did Nelson fabricate a mount for the STC? Finding the paper seems secondary to finding a mount.

    While I'm very familiar with the Crosswinds 160hp STC I know nothing about their 150hp mods. Is it a short mount?

  9. #9

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    Quote Originally Posted by TurboBeaver View Post
    One of the most common ones used is the Kenmore Air STC.
    Simple mod basically just requires 18 tailfeathers and sleaving the lower engine mount tubes. Call Kenmore they should be able to hook ya up.
    Good Luck
    E
    PS.
    Just looked at the STC on their website and for some unknown reason( my have conflicted with STC your researching) the "E" engine is NOT listed on their STC.......
    Sorry about any confusion.
    Yeah, that is exactly the problem. There are many STCs around but very few with E-engines. And I do look the E because it allows for a lower octane rating and Dynafocal mount.

    Quote Originally Posted by Steve Pierce View Post
    Doesn't the E2A have a dynafocal mount and or an offset carburetor to oil sump. Don't have the Type Certificate Data Sheet handy for the O-320 series but it will tell you.
    A Dynafocal for sure but I do not know the details(nor the consequences) of the carburetor position.

    Quote Originally Posted by stewartb View Post
    Crosswinds lists the E2D on their 150hp PA-12 STC. FWIW.
    Yes, thanks. I will contact them and see if they can help.

    Quote Originally Posted by hotrod180 View Post
    E2A & E2D are dynafocal mounts.
    I'm no expert, but don't think I've ever seen a SC with a dynafocal 320.

    BTW I was looking over a Maule MXT-180 yesterday,
    and was surprised that the engine was NOT a dynafocal.
    Again, not an expert but I don't think I've ever seen a 360 that wasn't a dynafocal.
    You might not have seen(Dynaforcal on a SC) it yet but now you've heard of it anyway.

    Quote Originally Posted by TurboBeaver View Post
    I think Stew is correct, Charlie may have the only current STC available for an E series engine......
    I remember some of these old STC like " seaplane door" for Champs,
    When old guy died in Minnesota that held it the STC seams to have gone away with him????
    Wonder if same is true on that old STC for E series he is trying to find.
    E
    I will contact Crosswinds and see what they have. Maybe the E2A can easily be converted to an E2D.

    Quote Originally Posted by stewartb View Post
    If memory serves I have two friends whose former PA-12s used the Nelson STC. Does anyone know what mount they used? Did Nelson fabricate a mount for the STC? Finding the paper seems secondary to finding a mount.

    While I'm very familiar with the Crosswinds 160hp STC I know nothing about their 150hp mods. Is it a short mount?
    Would be nice to hear how your friends did it. The mount is out there and available by Wag-Aero and maybe others as well. It is really a shame if an STC "dies with the owner" and there is no more a chance to use it... Are your SC friends here on this site?

  10. #10
    Gordon Misch's Avatar
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    Maybe the E2A can easily be converted to an E2D.
    This Wikipedia article makes it look like the cases are different. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lycoming_O-320 Looking up the parts manual for each would identify differences.
    Gordon

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    Quote Originally Posted by Gordon Misch View Post
    This Wikipedia article makes it look like the cases are different. link Looking up the parts manual for each would identify differences.
    Might be so, I do not know but checking the parts manual is a good way of doing it. Brian Meyette's excellent site says that is has an O-235 front main bearing.

    When I asked Lycoming about doing an engine conversion they gave me a pretty reasonable way of doing it:
    For field conversions of an engine, I recommend starting with Lycoming SSP-110 to determine the major differences between the engines then move to the Part Catalogs to determine which parts differ between the two and change them out accordingly. After the conversion has been performed document it in the engine logbook and stamp a “C” on the nameplate IAW Lycoming SI1304J.


    I have now contacted my CAA to see if there is a reasonable way to create and STC for this model of the O-320. Of course it will be a hassle, but still worth looking up.

  12. #12
    supercrow's Avatar
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    I have used the wag-aero mount a couple times. Well built and has served well, but is for exp, use only.

  13. #13
    hotrod180's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gordon Misch View Post
    This Wikipedia article makes it look like the cases are different. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lycoming_O-320 Looking up the parts manual for each would identify differences.
    Check the TCDS. # E-274 rev 22.

    http://rgl.faa.gov/Regulatory_and_Guidance_Library/rgMakeModel.nsf/0/74c397f0d8fa23b886257b63006ba6a4/$FILE/E-274_Rev_22.pdf

    From the TCDS, note 5:
    "O-320-E2D Similar to O-320-E2A except has no provisions for controllable pitch propeller. "
    Cessna Skywagon-- accept no substitute!

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    gpepperd's Avatar
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    My old Pa-12 had an 0-320 E2A that was installed per the Nelson Conversion. Very nice how the dynafocal mount smoothed out engine vibration. Most people who flew in it would actually comment on the smoothness. Paperwork would be under N7889H if that would help at all.
    Good judgment comes from experience, and a lot of
    that comes from bad judgment. will rodgers

    "Anyone who would give up liberty for safety deserves neither" Ben Franklin
    Likes TurboBeaver liked this post

  15. #15

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    Hi Niklas look at Univair, they have an STC AND engine mount for a 320 and I’m looking into this myself


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    Quote Originally Posted by supercrow View Post
    I have used the wag-aero mount a couple times. Well built and has served well, but is for exp, use only.
    Are you sure about this? It says that it is FAA/PMA, isn't that approved for certified aircraft?

    Quote Originally Posted by gpepperd View Post
    My old Pa-12 had an 0-320 E2A that was installed per the Nelson Conversion. Very nice how the dynafocal mount smoothed out engine vibration. Most people who flew in it would actually comment on the smoothness. Paperwork would be under N7889H if that would help at all.
    Glad to hear that it works so good, exactly what I am looking for! I do not know so much about the FAA system, can the tail number help me to get a hold of the STC?

    Quote Originally Posted by Philly5G View Post
    Hi Niklas look at Univair, they have an STC AND engine mount for a 320 and I’m looking into this myself
    Yes, I have looked at that as well but it doesn't work on "my" engine. I am looking for something with the E2A. Otherwise I would go for an STC like that one.

    Click image for larger version. 

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  17. #17
    supercrow's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by niklas View Post
    Are you sure about this? It says that it is FAA/PMA, isn't that approved for certified aircraft?


    Glad to hear that it works so good, exactly what I am looking for! I do not know so much about the FAA system, can the tail number help me to get a hold of the STC?


    Yes, I have looked at that as well but it doesn't work on "my" engine. I am looking for something with the E2A. Otherwise I would go for an STC like that one.

    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	O-320 Univair.JPG 
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ID:	45315
    The part number for the mounts I have used from wag is M525000 and is listed as code 8 which is exp. only. Perhaps they also have that mount in an approved version? I'm not aware of that one, but it would be interesting is it exists.

  18. #18

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    Ok, the one I have been looking at is this one:
    https://www.wagaero.com/engine-parts...faa-pma-d.html

    The part number is M-525-100 so might be another one. A swing out mount seems very practical.

  19. #19
    supercrow's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by niklas View Post
    Ok, the one I have been looking at is this one:
    https://www.wagaero.com/engine-parts...faa-pma-d.html

    The part number is M-525-100 so might be another one. A swing out mount seems very practical.
    OK, that makes sense. That one is not cert. for the 18, thnx.

  20. #20
    supercrow's Avatar
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    Kind of surprised they don't make a certified one for the 18. I do like the swing out feature on this mount.

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    Quote Originally Posted by supercrow View Post
    OK, that makes sense. That one is not cert. for the 18, thnx.
    I am not sure if this is certified or not. Does PMA mean that it is certified???

  22. #22
    supercrow's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by niklas View Post
    I am not sure if this is certified or not. Does PMA mean that it is certified???
    FAA;PMA means just that is is a cert. part. Not necessarily legal to put on your particular aircraft unless STC'd or with field approval.

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    Quote Originally Posted by supercrow View Post
    FAA;PMA means just that is is a cert. part. Not necessarily legal to put on your particular aircraft unless STC'd or with field approval.
    Ok, but that is a good start then!

  24. #24
    Steve Pierce's Avatar
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    Cub Crafters STC for the O-320 in the pA18 has a provision for the Dynafocal mount and the Wag Aero mount is used but not specifically called out.
    Last edited by Steve Pierce; 10-29-2019 at 07:27 AM.
    Steve Pierce

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    Ok, I see.

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