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79 PA-18 wing repair

The 1979 Cubs had a problem with the dope not adhearing to the fabric. My last cub kind of looked like yours with the missing top coat. I took an air nozzle and started spraying and all the dope came off clean including the silver. Threw a coat of paint on it and it looked pretty good. That was just on the fuselage I did recover the wings and tail surfaces. I can't remember if Piper cut out all the inspection holes.
 
Just a suggestion if you plan on keeping that airplane. If you find a good shop it might be worth recovering both wings if that is 40 year old fabric. Still a little bit at a time and at least you would have matching safe wings. Just a thought you always get suggestions around this joint:lol:
 
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Ground loops can happen particularly when the tail finds a down slope and the CG is back a bit. They like to swing around and that Tok setup now looks like there's a crowned runway and beveled gravel fallaway edge. If the tailwheel unlocks there's not much but ride it out unless quick on the power and opposite rudder. There's no time to think about it in my experience as the world spins.

Gary
 
Did the metal aileron or flap get damaged? They can be hard to find. I have some flaps and might know someone with ailerons. Sorry to see this happen, always hurts.
 
The flap came through ok. The aileron is a little more questionable. I haven't taken the wing apart and I'm still a newbie at knowing what's dead and what's repairable. As soon as I get home I'm going to start dissecting the wing and making some repair lists.
 
Gnarly.....all things considered, you've got a great attitude about this whole ordeal. A lot of guys would throw their sucker down in the dirt. You will no doubt be successful in this endeavor and end up with a better cub in the long run.
 
Thanks. I appreciate the kind words. I forgot I took this shot. It seems like this was the initial failure point.

Hydrosorb.jpg
 

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Maybe, but seems to me a failure of the shock strut will result in a 45 minute repair - especially if you have a spare gear leg.

We had badly corroded shock strut fail on landing. We replaced the gear leg and shock strut and taxied to the hangar in 45 minutes flat. A thorough inspection and log book entry (really important if you work at a controlled field) and we were airborne again.
 
To be clear my personal opinion is that the ground loop came first and the gear failure second. I don’t fault my buddy (and former boss) for ground looping...there are those that have and those that will. He is also a former student, a mentor and we went through type ratings together and have flown together for over 10 years and both of us have flown for over 20 years. Neither he nor the A&P who was with him think it was gear failure prior to ground loop. I think the slopping runway and tire tread contributed greatly. I do not believe that corrosion played a role. The upper gear arm is bent but not broken. But I still have a lot to learn about cubs so I’m keeping an open mind. The piston rod inside the hydrosorb snapped. The picture doesn’t show it well. It didn’t bend which I find interesting but not significant or explanatory of the accident. I’d love to hear theories.
 
Seems to me I saw a metal flap or aileron in the back of Stoddards. It would be worth a call. If you have some Morebetterdisease as you fix the plane AOSS gear is one of the best bang for the buck upgrades I did for my cub.
DENNY
 
If you feel like it and if you have time maybe you could tell the story on the history of that cub. Kind of unusual to find an unmolested 79 in Alaska. I would guess it is a pretty low time airframe. Anyway it's pretty cool, nice find.
Thanks,
Mark
 
Well it's a little bit of a long story, and in some ways really makes me look like the dumbass I can be on occasion. The airplane is owned by The Dirt Strip Dirtbags. There are three of us. One of the owners is a young college student and former flight student of mine (and great friend:). His grandfather has owned the airplane since 1979. It was (supposedly) the raffle prize for the 1979 Iditarod. The person who won the raffle either sold or traded it to my partners grandfather who kept it for the last 40 years. The airplane has 670 hours on it. Myself and the other partner bought it sight unseen without a pre-buy (no regrets haha). I think I really want to keep it as stock as possible. I'm concerned about operating the aircraft with it's current tires from paved runways. If anyone has advice on the tires I'm all ears. We had an annual performed immediately after purchase. There were no major discrepancies. Although it has low hours, the previous owners had all the maintenance records dating back to 1979 and a log of all AD compliance. The AD log noted one compliance that had in fact not been completed, but that was corrected (tail wheel strut if I'm not mistaken). My partner got his tail wheel endorsement in the airplane two years ago so it's not a hangar queen. After taking the wings and tail feathers off I feel like I have a good idea of the material condition and what needs attention. The plan is to get it in flying condition and then re-skin and refurbish as necessary gradually over a three year period, then put it on a yearly maintenance and refurbish schedule. I have a lot to learn and would love to have ideas about how to keep it stock as possible but make it as safe as it can be.
 
Pavement only - 8:00 x 6 look good, but are pricey. 6:00x6 are stock for that vintage - look like crap, but work fine. Big tires may look gnarly, but on pavement they are lousy and very expensive. Older Super Cubs and earlier ragwings all use 8:00x4, and all of mine are so equipped. $310 each for tires! Ouch!
 
They will give the authentic restoration look. Of course fabric flaps and ailerons will help - and the metal stuff you have might bring good prices.

There are folks who can repair metal control surfaces. Takes way more skill than covering with Dacron.

If you decide to modify anything, my opinion: 160 HP, X-brace, and Hooker harness.

By the way, I just found out that Stits fabric is now 72" wide, meaning one should never ever do a wing with a sewn seam anywhere.
 
I have a good flying cub that is not does not look that good from even from 30 ft, every time I ask my IA should we paint the wings he says a pilot of your skills should wait a year or two and the wings will get painted!! If you and the other owners are low time taildragger pilots just fix the wing and get the plane flying!!!!! Your chance of getting the prop or bigger damage as you learn is pretty good. That is just the way things work when we are not 18 years old. In todays world everyone thinks if you bend a plane you are a bad pilot!!! Reality is that is just part of life. Your plane of extended rebuild program is great. I would say give it 5-7 years, fix what you need and upgrade when you can.
DENNY
 
Thank you. 8:00x4 is probably a good place to start.
Those are not 8:00x4 wheels. The 8:00x4s had expander tube brakes. You have double puck Clevelands which means you have 6" wheels. The wheels on your Cub look like 6" with Gar-aero adapters to 10". Those adapters are glued on to 6" wheels. I'm not sure whether the adapters can be removed or not.
 
put the wheels in the oven at 400 degrees and then in my press and the adapters popped right off. I would imagine a 1979 Piper Super Cub came originally with 800x6 tires on 6" Cleveland wheels.
 
The AD log noted one compliance that had in fact not been completed, but that was corrected (tail wheel strut if I'm not mistaken).

Sounds like the plate that was added between the tailwheel spring bolt and the two bottom tail brace wire pulls on the fuselage.
 
Does this plane have gear safety cables? Would that have helped? Or they way the gear bent/collapsed would they not have helped?

What prop is that? If it's a Borer, you might check the STC before going to the effort of taking the adapters off and buying new tires.

Regarding the grooves in the tires contributing to the ground loop, don't lots of planes with grooved tires land on lots of paved runways,...like every day?

Jim
 
Regarding the grooves in the tires contributing to the ground loop, don't lots of planes with grooved tires land on lots of paved runways,...like every day?

Jim
The Gar-aero modification used stiffer tires than the "bush" wheels. They were primarily larger diameter and footprint for off airport use. Many used to grind off the extra rubber making them smooth to reduce weight and more pliable. The tires on this Cub could be used with higher pressures on pavement lasting for a long time. We don't know the exact circumstances which caused this ground loop. If it were me, I would air up these tires and get used to them on pavement and cow pastures. I had a 90 hp Cub on Gar-aeros and found them to work just fine.
 
The Gar-aero modification used stiffer tires than the "bush" wheels. They were primarily larger diameter and footprint for off airport use. Many used to grind off the extra rubber making them smooth to reduce weight and more pliable. The tires on this Cub could be used with higher pressures on pavement lasting for a long time. We don't know the exact circumstances which caused this ground loop. If it were me, I would air up these tires and get used to them on pavement and cow pastures. I had a 90 hp Cub on Gar-aeros and found them to work just fine.

Exactly. I owned a 79 Super Cub that I put on Gar Aero adapters and 8.50 X 10 tires like this is equipped with. I have never heard of anyone buffing the tread off those tires.....that’s a 29 X 11 X 10 tire thing when used on the Adapters.

Theres nothing wrong with those tires, on or off pavement. They are no more difficult to handle on landing than any other tire. Learn to fly the plane and get on with life. Frankly, if anything, I find landing a taildragger on big tires to be easier....it’s those little bitty tires that spook me.

Sorry it got wrecked.

MTV
 
The newspaper clipping is going in my maintenance file. That is awesome! All three owners have tail wheel time. I've done some pro flying in Carbon Cubs doing post hurricane mapping. Ironically all my cub time is in big wheel 180 HP carbons and legends operating off paved runways. After my buddy ground looped it I decided that I needed to check my attitude and come at this with a fresh attitude. A few years back as part of the company I was flying for, myself and another good friend (we both have military test backgrounds) did test and evaluation for a demonstration under contract by the special forces community. I'm sure there are a few folks on this forum who remember the week long test. Legend, Cub Crafters and Just aircraft brought their LSA class and high HP versions to North Carolina. I think flying those airplanes made me overconfident. I think it's critical that myself and my partners start this process and learn the right habits as if we are learning to fly all over again. I'm not home so I can't really speak to what's on the plane and it's clear that most of you know my airplane better than I do. The advice on this forum is amazing. My first issue is to get that wing fixed, and one of the tail feathers got beat up while we were taking it off. It really didn't want to come off haha. After that I'll run it up, do an engine oil analysis and see where I'm at. I'm not going to take it back to 79 condition. The plan is to keep it the way it is. It has shoulder harnesses and I plan to implement any other critical safety items regardless of whether it was original. Questions I'm trying to answer right now: should I upgrade the gear? change the tires? put skin on the new right gear or take the skin off the left gear? tear down the engine? It definitely didn't have a prop strike. I'm told the prop is a high performance prop but I don't know who makes it. I'm definitely learning more every day.
 
follow up to what others have posted, if that's the 82" prop there is a minimum ground clearance required... so really small tires might not be an option

I saw safety cables, but he folded the gear under, so they can't help that condition
 
I have seen a lot of ground loops lately. Only one resulted in that kind of damage, and that is because the pilot went to full power and full back stick on the bounce. It almost went inverted.

The smaller cubs just go around in a little circle. Often no damage at all, though we take a good look. The strut failure resulted in a six inch scuff on the wing tip - Duct tape stuff.

The Club Super Cub has had two, to my knowledge. The silly fiberglas wingtips needed a little bondo and Rustoleum. One cracked a wheel, but we didn't discover that until it got home.

The J4 used to go around routinely. My student would get freaked out and slam on a brake. Never any damage, except to my ego -
 
Good place to ask - what is the technique for those rib stitches below the gas tank? Right now I am using a curved needle and poking an extra hole some distance from the stitch to get around the capstrip.
 
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