Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast
Results 1 to 40 of 42

Thread: A&P training

  1. #1

    Join Date
    Jan 2013
    Posts
    7
    Post Thanks / Like

    A&P training

    Hello all, I have a few questions. Does anyone know of colleges to complete a license going part time? Has anyone done an apprenticeship? Being yourown a&p, has it actually helped financially with maintenance cost or does it offset very little? Thanks!

  2. #2

    Join Date
    May 2017
    Posts
    459
    Post Thanks / Like
    Not many A&P schools offer part time programs. Most schools run about 2000 hours (part 147 requires 1900). Doing it by practical experience can be done, but keep good records, you will need to show 5000 hours (30 months full time equivalent) to qualify for the A& P tests.


    Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
    Likes algonquin liked this post

  3. #3
    www.SkupTech.com mike mcs repair's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2004
    Location
    chugiak AK
    Posts
    10,333
    Post Thanks / Like
    Not cost effective to just be your own A&P. Best to do it by gaining real world experience and then go write the tests. But you will not get rich.....


    Sent from my iPhone using SuperCub.Org

  4. #4

    Join Date
    May 2017
    Posts
    459
    Post Thanks / Like
    Quote Originally Posted by mike mcs repair View Post
    Not cost effective to just be your own A&P. Best to do it by gaining real world experience and then go write the tests. But you will not get rich.....


    Sent from my iPhone using SuperCub.Org
    Even doing it as a career you won’t get rich!


    Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

  5. #5

    Join Date
    Jul 2010
    Location
    Elizabeth, WV
    Posts
    521
    Post Thanks / Like
    One advantage--as an A&P you will form a much closer relationship with the FAA. Bwaa Haa Ha Ha Ha! And you still pay an IA for your annuals.
    You can't get there from here. You have to go over yonder and start from there.
    Likes mike mcs repair, RaisedByWolves liked this post

  6. #6

    Join Date
    May 2017
    Posts
    459
    Post Thanks / Like
    Quote Originally Posted by N86250 View Post
    One advantage--as an A&P you will form a much closer relationship with the FAA. Bwaa Haa Ha Ha Ha! And you still pay an IA for your annuals.
    But after 3 years you could qualify for the IA!


    Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

  7. #7
    www.SkupTech.com mike mcs repair's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2004
    Location
    chugiak AK
    Posts
    10,333
    Post Thanks / Like
    Quote Originally Posted by dgapilot View Post
    But after 3 years you could qualify for the IA!


    Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
    had my A&P since 1991.... never found much need to get the IA for the type work I do, off airport...((re)-builds)

  8. #8

    Join Date
    May 2017
    Posts
    459
    Post Thanks / Like
    Unless someone is going to use the IA, there is little value in getting it, and the opportunity to do a lot of harm! If you aren’t doing inspections and 337s on a regular basis, you are likely to overlook something important. One of the reasons I’m not keen on the 8 hour class as a basis for renewal.

    I’ve had my IA since 1980 and average about 30 annuals a year.


    Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
    Likes algonquin liked this post

  9. #9
    n40ff's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2009
    Location
    WV
    Posts
    910
    Post Thanks / Like
    If you don't want to pay someone else, build your own airplane. But whatever, to properly maintain an airplane you will pay.........now or later.

    Jack
    Likes dgapilot, CamTom12, Southern Aero liked this post

  10. #10

    Join Date
    Apr 2009
    Location
    AK
    Posts
    100
    Post Thanks / Like
    Quote Originally Posted by mike mcs repair View Post
    had my A&P since 1991.... never found much need to get the IA for the type work I do, off airport...((re)-builds)
    I would think you’d need one big time- do you get someone else to sign off all your 337’s?

  11. #11
    Steve Pierce's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2002
    Location
    Graham, TX
    Posts
    18,649
    Post Thanks / Like
    I cannot imagine not having my IA. I hate having to depend on someone else for something like signing off a 337 or annual inspection.
    Last edited by Steve Pierce; 10-01-2019 at 10:23 PM.
    Steve Pierce

    Everybody is ignorant, only on different subjects.
    Will Rogers

  12. #12
    www.SkupTech.com mike mcs repair's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2004
    Location
    chugiak AK
    Posts
    10,333
    Post Thanks / Like
    Quote Originally Posted by ak49flyer View Post
    do you get someone else to sign off all your 337’s?
    yes... and he trained/oversaw me before I even had an A&P.. so no big deal...

  13. #13
    Charlie Longley's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2008
    Location
    Arlington, WA
    Posts
    525
    Post Thanks / Like
    Quote Originally Posted by mike mcs repair View Post
    yes... and he trained/oversaw me before I even had an A&P.. so no big deal...
    Not a big deal to get your IA if needed. I like the idea of a second set of eyes on work though! There’s an A&P in our glider club that I have look at some of my work particularly when I work on flight controls.

  14. #14

    Join Date
    Mar 2016
    Location
    Down low in the hills of Vermont USA
    Posts
    876
    Post Thanks / Like
    Quote Originally Posted by mike mcs repair View Post
    had my A&P since 1991.... never found much need to get the IA for the type work I do, off airport...((re)-builds)
    Same for me, worked on planes under supervision since early '70s, Went to Embry Riddle in 79, came out top of class with A&P late 82. Started my restoration business in 85 and always had IA's wanting to hang around. I always like to have the second set of eyes and hands and they were there for me.
    No muss, no fuss and no paper games with bills between the pages.
    Likes mike mcs repair, rmac liked this post

  15. #15
    behindpropellers's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2003
    Location
    NE Ohio
    Posts
    6,692
    Post Thanks / Like
    Quote Originally Posted by Redtail86 View Post
    Hello all, I have a few questions. Does anyone know of colleges to complete a license going part time? Has anyone done an apprenticeship? Being yourown a&p, has it actually helped financially with maintenance cost or does it offset very little? Thanks!
    Takes a lot of time. But an excellent rating to get.

  16. #16
    S2D's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2002
    Location
    Montana
    Posts
    4,053
    Post Thanks / Like
    Quote Originally Posted by CharlieN View Post
    Went to Embry Riddle in 79, came out top of class with A&P late 82. Started my restoration business in 85
    Wow, parallel universes !!
    I may be wrong but that probably won't stop me from arguing about it.
    Likes CharlieN, Southern Aero liked this post

  17. #17

    Join Date
    Jan 2013
    Posts
    7
    Post Thanks / Like
    Thanks for the input i appreciate it. How do part time mechanics keep their currency or like you said.. 8 hours of continuing education, or so many annual inspections per year?
    What draws the line between the cost of owning as to renting? Or is it always cheaper to own, even just a taylorcraft or stinson?

  18. #18

    Join Date
    May 2017
    Posts
    459
    Post Thanks / Like
    Quote Originally Posted by Redtail86 View Post
    Thanks for the input i appreciate it. How do part time mechanics keep their currency or like you said.. 8 hours of continuing education, or so many annual inspections per year?
    What draws the line between the cost of owning as to renting? Or is it always cheaper to own, even just a taylorcraft or stinson?
    I’m part time, but still do about 30-50 annuals a year. More than a lot of guys that bend wrenches full time. I also do about 15-20 certifications a year. It doesn’t give me much time to relax or work on my own stuff!


    Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

  19. #19
    algonquin's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2013
    Location
    Seldovia,Ak
    Posts
    870
    Post Thanks / Like
    My 2C, being a A&P & IA is a commitment that would be very hard to do well if you didn’t love it. I personally think trying to be a mechanic to save money on the maintenance of your own airplane would not be time or cost effective. I’ve had this conversation with a friend of mine and he wasn’t that crazy about being a A&P , so I said why not do some overtime at your job that you like and make about what a A&P charges. I don’t say this to be negative but getting your lic. Is not quick or easy. If you do decide to go for it you will find a lot of help and support here, good luck.

  20. #20

    Join Date
    Mar 2016
    Location
    Down low in the hills of Vermont USA
    Posts
    876
    Post Thanks / Like
    One thing to consider here is the FAA proposal to allow an increased level of owner maintenance paralleling how Canada is working with aircraft owners to reduce costs. It is going to take some time for this regulation to change but it will be less time and expense than getting an A&P for personal use.

  21. #21
    skywagon8a's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2008
    Location
    SE Mass
    Posts
    9,284
    Post Thanks / Like
    Quote Originally Posted by Redtail86 View Post
    Hello all, I have a few questions. Does anyone know of colleges to complete a license going part time? Has anyone done an apprenticeship? Being your own a&p, has it actually helped financially with maintenance cost or does it offset very little? Thanks!
    I had a friend who did this long ago. He went nights to the Academy of Aeronautics next to LaGuardia airport in New York for several years to get his A&P. Not to make or save money, but because he wanted to. He did this because he loved to work on airplanes. Actually he loved it so much that he drove three hours each way from where he lived just to be at the airport every weekend. He later also earned his IA which he used primarily for himself but also helped friends. He was a pharmacologist running a laboratory in real life.

    Doing what you suggest is a big endeavor which will take a lot of effort and time on your part. Since you don't mention where you live we can't even speculate on a recommendation for a school. If there is no school within a reasonable travel distance from where you live, this idea will not succeed. When you are finished you will have a license to learn about working on airplanes. What is your mechanical aptitude? Only you, perhaps with the help of some honest friends can answer this. What is your past mechanical experience? Will you be able to work along side some old timer who will help keep you on the straight and narrow path? I know that in my case, having many old timer mentors over the years taught me much much more than the basics which I learned in A&P school. These old timers kept me out of trouble, well kept the trouble to a minimum.
    N1PA
    Likes mike mcs repair liked this post

  22. #22

    Join Date
    May 2017
    Posts
    459
    Post Thanks / Like
    Quote Originally Posted by CharlieN View Post
    One thing to consider here is the FAA proposal to allow an increased level of owner maintenance paralleling how Canada is working with aircraft owners to reduce costs. It is going to take some time for this regulation to change but it will be less time and expense than getting an A&P for personal use.
    You won’t see this for at least 5 years. Rulemaking hasn’t even started, and that’s at least a 5 year evolution. As for the Canadian owner maintenance, hasn’t been real successful. Last count only about 600 airplanes signed up for it. Now down to just over 500.

    This may sound harsh, but if the cost of maintaining your airplane is to much, maybe you shouldn’t own an airplane. Find an IA that knows your type airplane, then work with him/her during your inspections.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

  23. #23
    Steve Pierce's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2002
    Location
    Graham, TX
    Posts
    18,649
    Post Thanks / Like
    My Dad got his A&P after he retired as a mechanical engineer for Cummins engine company and 20 years as an avionics tech in the Navy. I live 500 plus miles a way and he is not wired to rely on others to do what he can do. He enjoys the work and learning new things and staying up on things. He maintains his Vagabond and Clipper and a few airplanes in his local area but at 81 he is getting tired of dealing with other's airplanes so he is talking about taking to refresher classes to keep his IA current. I grew up working on things, enjoy it most of the time and cannot imagine relying on someone else to fix my stuff. I also think have the knowledge gained from getting the A&P would be good for any pilot. Yes, it is a big commitment but everything worth while is.
    Steve Pierce

    Everybody is ignorant, only on different subjects.
    Will Rogers

  24. #24

    Join Date
    Mar 2016
    Location
    Down low in the hills of Vermont USA
    Posts
    876
    Post Thanks / Like
    Quote Originally Posted by dgapilot View Post

    This may sound harsh, but if the cost of maintaining your airplane is to much, maybe you shouldn’t own an airplane. Find an IA that knows your type airplane, then work with him/her during your inspections.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
    And that has to be done for all of us that are A&P now. We can not annual our own planes and never could nor will be able to in the future.

    To The OP, your path would be easier to assemble an Experimental aircraft which allows you to do your own maintenance which still will require an A&P for the yearly Condition report.

  25. #25
    skywagon8a's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2008
    Location
    SE Mass
    Posts
    9,284
    Post Thanks / Like
    Quote Originally Posted by CharlieN View Post
    To The OP, your path would be easier to assemble an Experimental aircraft which allows you to do your own maintenance which still will require an A&P for the yearly Condition report.
    Not true Charlie. The original builder of an EAB homebuilt is eligible for a repairman's certificate for that airplane, which allows him to perform the condition inspections on that airplane only. The second and subsequent owners will need the A&P.
    N1PA
    Likes mike mcs repair liked this post

  26. #26

    Join Date
    May 2017
    Posts
    459
    Post Thanks / Like

    A&P training

    Quote Originally Posted by CharlieN View Post
    And that has to be done for all of us that are A&P now. We can not annual our own planes and never could nor will be able to in the future.

    To The OP, your path would be easier to assemble an Experimental aircraft which allows you to do your own maintenance which still will require an A&P for the yearly Condition report.
    I don’t understand your comment “we can not annual our own planes”. There is nothing in the regs that prevents us from doing that, been doing annuals on planes that I own ever since I got my IA. Now, I do have limitations on my DAR that prevents me issuing airworthiness certificates, ferry permits and field approvals on my own airplanes, and on my DER that prevents me from doing DER Approvals on my own airplanes. Likewise if I do a Field Approval or DER Approval I cant sign blocks 6 or 7 on the 337, and that has nothing to do with ownership.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

  27. #27

    Join Date
    Mar 2016
    Location
    Down low in the hills of Vermont USA
    Posts
    876
    Post Thanks / Like
    An A&P cannot perform an annual inspection on a Certified aircraft. This thread is about a person who wants to achieve acquiring his A&P, NOT an IA.
    My comment stands as an A&P, “we can not annual our own planes”.
    Likes mike mcs repair liked this post

  28. #28

    Join Date
    May 2017
    Posts
    459
    Post Thanks / Like
    Quote Originally Posted by CharlieN View Post
    An A&P cannot perform an annual inspection on a Certified aircraft. This thread is about a person who wants to achieve acquiring his A&P, NOT an IA.
    My comment stands as an A&P, “we can not annual our own planes”.
    But an A&P with 3 years experience can qualify to be an IA, then you can.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
    Likes mike mcs repair liked this post

  29. #29
    CamTom12's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2015
    Location
    Huntsville, AL
    Posts
    652
    Post Thanks / Like
    Quote Originally Posted by dgapilot View Post
    This may sound harsh, but if the cost of maintaining your airplane is to much, maybe you shouldn’t own an airplane.
    I agree wholeheartedly with this statement, but not for the same reasons as you intended it.

    If it weren't for the E-AB category, I couldn't afford the airplane I have now.
    Likes Chicken Hawk liked this post

  30. #30
    n40ff's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2009
    Location
    WV
    Posts
    910
    Post Thanks / Like
    I have a repairman cert. on my two E-AB's. Building a airplane is a wonderful experience and you learn much. Indeed you learn enough building the first that the 2nd isn't too bad. I do not have to depend on anyone else to "legally" keep my airplanes in the air. That's great.

    BUT

    Does that mean that I can safely keep my airplanes flying? Maybe, maybe not. Frankly I need help, sometimes a lot of help. One does not need to know very much about engines and maybe other systems to complete a E-AB. You can buy a new engine or buy a core(or something in between) and install it well enough to pass inspection but you may not really know how to maintain it?

    My point is that depending on your experience and ability it will still go a long way to be friends with a A&P/IA who knows your type of aircraft and be willing to even pay for his advice if necessary. YMMV

    Over time one will learn the necessary skills but as other certified mechanics have already said, it's most reassuring to at least have another set of skilled eyes look over your work.

    IMO there is no easy way to learn to "safely" maintain an airplane. But as long as you love airplanes at least it will be fun to learn. Personally I love airplanes and like working on them more than flying, but some days flying does confirm how wonderful they are. After almost 50 years i still look down and feel sorry for those poor folks tied to the ground.....

    With due respect,

    Jack

    Likes dgapilot, RVBottomly, CamTom12 liked this post

  31. #31
    hotrod180's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2008
    Location
    Port Townsend, WA
    Posts
    2,623
    Post Thanks / Like
    I always figured with the time & expense required to get an A&P myself,
    it was probably cheaper & certainly easier to just work with one of my A&P or IA buddies
    when it was time to do some repairs / mods or an inspection on my airplane.
    Cessna Skywagon-- accept no substitute!
    Likes mike mcs repair liked this post

  32. #32

    Join Date
    Jul 2010
    Location
    Elizabeth, WV
    Posts
    521
    Post Thanks / Like
    Quote Originally Posted by dgapilot View Post
    But an A&P with 3 years experience can qualify to be an IA, then you can.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
    This is true IF you are given the authorization to take the test. I had held my A&P for five years when I asked to test for IA. I got my pedigree read by the manager of the FSDO whom I had never met and whom had no knowledge of my skills or lack thereof . I got my letter of authorization but you would have thought I had bedded his three daughters and his wife and introduced his two sons to cocaine. Although everyone since has been professional and helpful that lambasting is still fresh in my mind and the reason for my crack in post #5.
    The OP asked about a financial benefit. If you want to save money on your aircraft maintenance learn everything about your aircraft and all its parts. The guys who know their airplane inside out don't have to take it to a big FBO and write a blank check. These guys know what needs done when and how to do it and they are not A&Ps. They find a good IA and build a trust with him. They will point out the crack or broken cable strand or the flat spot on a tire. Then they do the work with his supervision. It doesn't happen overnight either. If it's too much trouble to learn about your mags, carburettor, electrical system and etc. it's going to be too much trouble to get an A&P. This also is based on you NOT being one of those guys who shouldn't be allowed to hold a screwdriver.
    You can't get there from here. You have to go over yonder and start from there.
    Likes hotrod180 liked this post

  33. #33
    CamTom12's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2015
    Location
    Huntsville, AL
    Posts
    652
    Post Thanks / Like
    Quote Originally Posted by n40ff View Post
    I have a repairman cert. on my two E-AB's. Building a airplane is a wonderful experience and you learn much. Indeed you learn enough building the first that the 2nd isn't too bad. I do not have to depend on anyone else to "legally" keep my airplanes in the air. That's great.

    BUT

    Does that mean that I can safely keep my airplanes flying? Maybe, maybe not. Frankly I need help, sometimes a lot of help. One does not need to know very much about engines and maybe other systems to complete a E-AB. You can buy a new engine or buy a core(or something in between) and install it well enough to pass inspection but you may not really know how to maintain it?

    My point is that depending on your experience and ability it will still go a long way to be friends with a A&P/IA who knows your type of aircraft and be willing to even pay for his advice if necessary. YMMV

    Over time one will learn the necessary skills but as other certified mechanics have already said, it's most reassuring to at least have another set of skilled eyes look over your work.

    IMO there is no easy way to learn to "safely" maintain an airplane. But as long as you love airplanes at least it will be fun to learn. Personally I love airplanes and like working on them more than flying, but some days flying does confirm how wonderful they are. After almost 50 years i still look down and feel sorry for those poor folks tied to the ground.....

    With due respect,

    Jack

    I agree with this 100%. I don't do it any differently. For sure at my level, it's not smart to trust only my experience/eyes on an airplane.

    Here's an unsolicited thanks to Steve and Gilbert Pierce. Those guys are my go-to when I need help. I need to start sending them baked goods or something - but they might just prefer to be bothered less

  34. #34

    Join Date
    Jan 2013
    Posts
    7
    Post Thanks / Like
    Quote Originally Posted by CamTom12 View Post
    I agree wholeheartedly with this statement, but not for the same reasons as you intended it.

    If it weren't for the E-AB category, I couldn't afford the airplane I have now.
    It itsnt so much as afford an airplane but what im asking is does being an a&p help offset the cost significally owning the plane between parts and labor?
    Likes bowenjo liked this post

  35. #35
    skywagon8a's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2008
    Location
    SE Mass
    Posts
    9,284
    Post Thanks / Like
    Quote Originally Posted by Redtail86 View Post
    It itsnt so much as afford an airplane but what im asking is does being an a&p help offset the cost significally owning the plane between parts and labor?
    Being an A&P isn't going to change the parts prices. Being an A&P, you will still need to find a friendly IA to perform the annuals. Why don't you just find the friendly IA and work with him without you having the A&P?
    Back in the day, I as the local IA worked with the pilot owners on my airport with their annuals. They did most of the work and I did the inspections. They knew what I wanted and I knew what their capabilities were.
    N1PA
    Thanks CharlieN thanked for this post

  36. #36
    Eddie Foy's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2014
    Location
    South Florida
    Posts
    3,408
    Post Thanks / Like
    I could never have afforded to redo two airplanes without an IA who trusted me to not screw it up. Spent 14 months and 1100 hours on the 180. The IA bill was reasonable. The catch is that you must gain the trust of an IA to put their name on the line.
    "Put out my hand and touched the face of God!"
    Likes skywagon8a, mike mcs repair, CamTom12 liked this post

  37. #37
    Gordon Misch's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2003
    Location
    Toledo, Wa (KTDO)
    Posts
    3,333
    Post Thanks / Like
    I've been doing all my own work for 40-some years. I'm not an A&P, but have been overseen by skilled, experienced licensed mechs. It has been a good learning experience, and I've reached a point where my IA trusts me quite a bit. And of course I do my very best to deserve that.

    After doing my own overhauls and major maintenance, doing the drudge work at owner-assisted annuals assures that I continue to know the plane intimately.

  38. #38

    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    Location
    Savannah Ga
    Posts
    738
    Post Thanks / Like
    The reason I got my IA was when a supposed knowlegable IA was looking over a Champ that I had just restored and recovered with Stitts he turned to me and said it was a real beauty and then asked me what grade of CANVAS I used to recover it. I just went along with him to get his signature and 3 months later I had my IA. Way to many prima donnas for me to put up with.
    Likes mike mcs repair, 46 Cub, CharlieN liked this post

  39. #39
    Steve Pierce's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2002
    Location
    Graham, TX
    Posts
    18,649
    Post Thanks / Like
    The A&P will save you money on maintenance. Not everyone has an A&P/IA that will work with them or allow them to work under their supervision. I don't know how old you are but think of how many years you have. It is something that cannot be taken away from you unless you do something bad. Great investment in my opinion.
    Steve Pierce

    Everybody is ignorant, only on different subjects.
    Will Rogers

  40. #40

    Join Date
    Nov 2008
    Location
    Saranac Lake, NY
    Posts
    67
    Post Thanks / Like
    Look at the details in the 8900.1 in certification of airmen. I did the experience route and had the 4800hrs of required experience. I did it because I own a maintenance business. It’s not for the faint of heart, the FAA is real careful about handing out permission to take the test. You won’t save any money. Likely cost you more as the knowledge and ability lead to more maintenance not less....once you know what your looking at, you see a lot more broken ****!
    Likes dgapilot, mike mcs repair liked this post

Similar Threads

  1. Ski training
    By canadiancub in forum Member to Member
    Replies: 23
    Last Post: 03-24-2007, 02:59 PM
  2. 185 training
    By N5126H in forum Member to Member
    Replies: 0
    Last Post: 11-01-2006, 12:53 AM
  3. training
    By Ron B. in forum Cafe Supercub
    Replies: 8
    Last Post: 05-26-2006, 08:35 PM
  4. A&P training
    By prichfield in forum Cafe Supercub
    Replies: 3
    Last Post: 12-28-2003, 08:08 AM

Bookmarks

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •