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Nails and bullets - just grumbling.

B

bob turner

Registered User
I am swearing off helping folks who insist on wing removal/installation without using nails. What is it that makes folks want their buddies to hold up a wing while they drive an AN-5 bolt out? Or worse, try to force one in when the alignment ought to be done with a bullet?

Grumble.
 
bob turner said:
I am swearing off helping folks who insist on wing removal/installation without using nails. What is it that makes folks want their buddies to hold up a wing while they drive an AN-5 bolt out? Or worse, try to force one in when the alignment ought to be done with a bullet?

Grumble.
Click to expand...

yup....

I made a nice set of 1/4" hanger pegs for setting wings on... that takes 3 people(safety)... then just 2 are needed to swap those to the bolts and bullets....

I'll try to remember to post pictures, makes it so easy and fast... well, as long as wing will fit into the fuselage fittings.....
 
Bullets (old pointed bolts) for the strut bottoms (can use on top also), screwdrivers/tapered punch for top holes. Align hole with punch then push/drive bolt as needed on top. Once bottom strut bullets are in simple pop out with punch and stick in AN bolt works great (wingtip man moves forward/back to align) I am usually strong back and weak mind when it comes to wing work. I stand on stool for better leverage, normal crew 3 man can do a cub wing in 3-5 min even when we have a tight spot or two. Everything has to be in place before the wing is lifted!! If we have to stop to rest front strut is all that is needed to hold the wing. Trying to do it without the right gear can take much longer and result in wing damage.
DENNY
 
Either on or off, it is with nails or Phillips screwdrivers first. Off - be sure to disconnect fuel, wiring, and control cables before your buddies arrive. You can do the bullets and bolts while your buddies relax over coffee or beer.

Only reason I bothered posting - nobody wants to do this. They all want to hammer on the bolts while others hold the wing. Boo!
 
I presume your bullets are headless so they just get pushed through by the bolts? I have seen people use pointed bolts that need to be extracted to then install the true fastener. Never understood their motive.
 
download.jpegFlange alignment bolt, simply made in the sizes we might use.
 

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I like the taper idea. If I did this for a living I would make a set today.

Looks like some serious flap work in the above photo.
 
CharlieN said:
I presume your bullets are headless so they just get pushed through by the bolts? I have seen people use pointed bolts that need to be extracted to then install the true fastener. Never understood their motive.
Click to expand...

Install pointed bolts in opposite direction of intended fastener if there's room. The punch them out with new bolt is how i've seen it done.

Gary
 
BC12D-4-85 said:
Install pointed bolts in opposite direction of intended fastener if there's room. The punch them out with new bolt is how I've seen it done.

Gary
Click to expand...
This method could allow the alignment to shift while the pointed bolt is leaving the hole preventing the new bolt from sliding in without being damaged. I prefer pushing the new bolt against the full diameter of the pointed bolt.
 
skywagon8a said:
This method could allow the alignment to shift while the pointed bolt is leaving the hole preventing the new bolt from sliding in without being damaged. I prefer pushing the new bolt against the full diameter of the pointed bolt.
Click to expand...

I've done it both ways and have bullets, bolts, and phillips. I agree if the offset is large the bullet is best, but sometimes working alone in a closed space there's no third hand. So, insert the pointed bolt backwards to set up alignment and tap in while holding parts (like lift strut or gear leg) with other. Then if needed insert short bullet followed by fastener and tap in/drive out tools.

Gary
 
Gary, there are many ways to skin the cat. Try completely hanging a wing solo without any help at all except for an overhead hoist.
 
skywagon8a said:
Gary, there are many ways to skin the cat. Try completely hanging a wing solo without any help at all except for an overhead hoist.
Click to expand...

Better yet have five people helping and one A&P trying to herd them like cats. I saw it happen and held my coffee cup from a distance. Now then there's the sheetrock hoist(s) method. Saw one doing it alone but first two were needed to move the wings.

I guess one advantage for a tapered bolt with head is the ability to crank it with a ratchet and maybe press it in at the same time. Close quarters inside a wing with no room to swing a tapping hammer.

Gary
 
I know one guy that decided to try to replace front wing attach bolt by himself on a PA-14..... he got real busy as wing started backwards... he ended up using his belt to stop it....
 
flyrite said:
Sounds like some of my machinations!
Click to expand...

Me too.

I'm just glad to finally know the technical terms for all these things. I chucked in my little lathe some big spikes I had laying around to make tapered drifts and round-ended punches, never knowing that I now owned bullets and nails.
 
First bullet experience. Installing floats with mechanic's help and I made a loud "ringing" sound when metal to metal from the hammer on bolt to tight fuselage fitting. Old Mechanic: Hey "dum chit" grab a bullet so you don't break something. Bullet? What's that says me. Here you go "dum azz" (or something like that) now you know.

This is true and every time I use one now I think of Tommy K.

Gary
 
All good ideas. I am just blown away when folks do it the hard way while their friends struggle. If they ask me, I shall say “you got nails in there? If so, sure”.

By nails, I mean real nails or Phillips screwdrivers, or quarter inch bolts - anything that is easily inserted or removed while your buddies strain.

you cannot have enough bullets and tapers.

I just realized you cannot have enough clamps either. And clothes pins . . . It is cover time next week.
 
2nd Lesson in Bullets: Then I insert the bullet and drive home the float bolt in the Cub's fitting. The bullet, like they do, went flying across the hangar floor and got lost under his tool box. Clink! Now he's really hot and into teaching about hand over the fitting to catch bullet....you @#$%^&* @ss! Handed me a magnet and said go fish for it, and Tommy never washed floors.

Gary
 
Next time you need to change an engine,transmission or clutch make some alinement pins.Cut the heads off the same size bolt (2 usually works good) that retains the transmission,bullet the head and cut a screwdriver slot in the bullet.
A 4"-6" bolt works well.Makes life a lot easier.
Oh by the way NEVER try to pull a transmission to the engine with bolts.It must go flush by hand.A little patience and finesse is less expensive than pumps ,converters and broken transmission cases.
I tell my customers "When you start thinking Big hammer,STOP right there!":)
 
willyb said:
Oh by the way NEVER try to pull a transmission to the engine with bolts.It must go flush by hand.A little patience and finesse is less expensive than pumps ,converters and broken transmission cases.
Click to expand...

So you broke a bell housing, too!

Web
 
No but have had customers who did on a freshly overhauled transmission.Welded up a few cases and replaceed broken pump gears when they thought pulling it on the last inch was how to do it.Way worse when they manage to get it on then start it up!
 
skywagon8a said:
Gary, there are many ways to skin the cat. Try completely hanging a wing solo without any help at all except for an overhead hoist.
Click to expand...

Done that, several times. Overhead beam trolley with a chainfall, AND a sheetrock jack.no pain or strain, or drama. Bit more time though, but no excitement or pissed off friends, etc.
 
bob turner said:
Either on or off, it is with nails or Phillips screwdrivers first. Off - be sure to disconnect fuel, wiring, and control cables before your buddies arrive. You can do the bullets and bolts while your buddies relax over coffee or beer.

Only reason I bothered posting - nobody wants to do this. They all want to hammer on the bolts while others hold the wing. Boo!
Click to expand...

You need better (smarter) friends!

I have a friend that believes you can build a house with a chainsaw, sledge hammer and crowbar. We don't often let him near tools or saws. I have, more than once grabbed a hammer from his hands when he was about to 'finesse' something.

Don't ask what he thinks my good screwdrivers are for.:-x
 
Don’t you guys ever use “calibration hammers?” Red on one head, green on the other....wham! Calibrate up, .....wham! Calibrate down.....
 
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