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ADS-B Issues

Anyone know why I loose TISB service when I’m well within coverage? Today it blinked on and off 3 or 4 times. As you can see at the bottom of the image I had an excellent signal but not always getting an uplink.

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Those who are worried about privacy might find this of interest.

[FONT=Verdana,Arial,Tahoma,Calibri,Geneva,sans-serif]https://www.aopa.org/news-and-media/all-news/2019/december/24/ads-b-privacy-now-available[/FONT]
 
So with no ADS B, and flying near a class B or C airspace with just a transponder can one still get flight following?


Sent from my Pixel 2 using SuperCub.Org mobile app

My understanding is yes, though make sure you’re not too close to the class B. From the mode C veil inward is where ADS-B is required at a class B.
 
The ADAPT program allows you to fly in ADS-b space as long as you have a mode c xponder. It gives you authorization from FAA but ATC can turn you down if they are busy, if you dont need to talk to atc than you are golden with the ADAPT authorization.
 
The ADAPT program allows you to fly in ADS-b space as long as you have a mode c xponder. It gives you authorization from FAA but ATC can turn you down if they are busy, if you dont need to talk to atc than you are golden with the ADAPT authorization.
The FAA has developed the ADS-B Deviation Authorization Preflight Tool (ADAPT) to manage these authorization requests.
In order to be considered for an ADS-B deviation authorization with ADAPT, requests must meet the following criteria:

  • Aircraft must be equipped with an operational transponder and operational altitude encoder (e. g., Mode C)
  • Request submitted no more than 24 hours before flight
  • Request submitted no less than 1 hour before flight
Please note: The FAA will not issue in-flight authorizations to operators of non-equipped aircraft, nor will air traffic control (ATC) facilities accept requests for these types of authorizations by telephone.
 
The FAA has developed the ADS-B Deviation Authorization Preflight Tool (ADAPT) to manage these authorization requests.
In order to be considered for an ADS-B deviation authorization with ADAPT, requests must meet the following criteria:

  • Aircraft must be equipped with an operational transponder and operational altitude encoder (e. g., Mode C)
  • Request submitted no more than 24 hours before flight
  • Request submitted no less than 1 hour before flight
Please note: The FAA will not issue in-flight authorizations to operators of non-equipped aircraft, nor will air traffic control (ATC) facilities accept requests for these types of authorizations by telephone.

Yes, just a mode C transponder and you’re in like Flynn
 
From a different forum, a controller in Chicago posted this, they don’t even monitor who is or isn’t ADSB
As a controller at the busiest stand alone TRACON in the country I will say that we haven't been briefed on what to do reference ADS-B. We don't even monitor it on the scopes even though the ability exists. Not sure what ATC is or isn't doing around the rest of the country but if you were to fly into Chicago, it wouldn't be any different than last month. Maybe that will change soon and I'll try to report back if we are briefed differently.


 
Not if ATC decides they’re busy. ATC still has to agree.

MTV
This thread has allot of good info and questions,
So, to me this brings up a question about deviations, thinking to the near future such as this coming Oshkosh. Probably even Sun & Fun.
These will be the first real high density controlled airspace with the lowest proportion of ADS B equipped aircraft. I am curious how these events will be handled.
Obviously they have a very well understood visual system that offers little value for the ADSB system, at least in the near future.
But will this be a frustration for the regulators or a technical breeding ground for system and procedure analysis?
 
This thread has allot of good info and questions,
So, to me this brings up a question about deviations, thinking to the near future such as this coming Oshkosh. Probably even Sun & Fun.
These will be the first real high density controlled airspace with the lowest proportion of ADS B equipped aircraft. I am curious how these events will be handled.
Obviously they have a very well understood visual system that offers little value for the ADSB system, at least in the near future.
But will this be a frustration for the regulators or a technical breeding ground for system and procedure analysis?

First, OSH does not lie in “Rule Airspace”, so not required there.

Second, in previous years, the Airventure Notam required all transponders OFF within ~ 30 miles of OSH. This last year (2019) the Notam specifically called for transponders to remain ON. I assumed that was to take advantage of potential traffic avoidance with ADS-B.

Maybe.

MTV
 
This thread has allot of good info and questions,
So, to me this brings up a question about deviations, thinking to the near future such as this coming Oshkosh. Probably even Sun & Fun.
These will be the first real high density controlled airspace with the lowest proportion of ADS B equipped aircraft. I am curious how these events will be handled.
Obviously they have a very well understood visual system that offers little value for the ADSB system, at least in the near future.
But will this be a frustration for the regulators or a technical breeding ground for system and procedure analysis?

Frankly, this doesn’t surprise me at all. Have I mentioned how screwed up this program is?

MTV
 
"The one area where Duke expects the FAA to be serious from the start involves intentionally turning off an ADS-B system when an exception does not apply. According to the handbook, “operating an aircraft without activated transponder or ADS-B Out transmission (except as provided in FAR 91.225(f)) for purposes of evading detection” will generally warrant certificate revocation."

https://www.aopa.org/news-and-media...ooth-start?utm_source=epilot&utm_medium=email

I wonder how the FAA will treat turning off ADS-B in non-rule airspace. I assume they will treat everything as "for the purpose of evading detection".
 
I found it interesting this past week that one of the B-17 tour planes flew half way across the country without it's ADSB reporting. It just came out of it's major wing inspection so possibly it was an anomaly but I do say it seemed a bit odd that a rather long multi day flight flown at rather low altitudes would be done with transponder off.
 
I found it interesting this past week that one of the B-17 tour planes flew half way across the country without it's ADSB reporting. It just came out of it's major wing inspection so possibly it was an anomaly but I do say it seemed a bit odd that a rather long multi day flight flown at rather low altitudes would be done with transponder off.
So if he did not fly through any of the mandatory air space, what's the big deal? It would not have been required.
 
So if he did not fly through any of the mandatory air space, what's the big deal? It would not have been required.
True, they generally cruise at 2500 AGL or less so they are no where near any limits. Chicago must have required a great circle.
Part of me is just trying to make sense of rules that seem to say if the plane is equipped it must be on.
 
I found it interesting this past week that one of the B-17 tour planes flew half way across the country without it's ADSB reporting. It just came out of it's major wing inspection so possibly it was an anomaly but I do say it seemed a bit odd that a rather long multi day flight flown at rather low altitudes would be done with transponder off.

if the transponder was off, AND they didn’t fly in any rule airspace, how would any body with authority know? Do you know for sure that the plane is in fact ADS-B equipped?

Im hearing from various sources that some ATC facilities aren’t monitoring ADS-B. So, who gives a ****?

MTV
 
if the transponder was off, AND they didn’t fly in any rule airspace, how would any body with authority know? Do you know for sure that the plane is in fact ADS-B equipped?

Im hearing from various sources that some ATC facilities aren’t monitoring ADS-B. So, who gives a ****?

MTV

and..... did they figure out you're issue yet??
how long has it been?
 
if the transponder was off, AND they didn’t fly in any rule airspace, how would any body with authority know? Do you know for sure that the plane is in fact ADS-B equipped?

Im hearing from various sources that some ATC facilities aren’t monitoring ADS-B. So, who gives a ****?

MTV

Yes I have hosted tour events with this plane and keep a watch on FR24 and Flight Aware. This time they showed up, not in flight but just that they filed a flight plan for one leg in the middle of their route.
So yes, Who gives****, clearly we still do have some freedom, at least for the time being.
 
Thinking on this a bit, for the past few years I have been planning to host two tower tours, just could not get much chapter interest. We have two training facilities here in the Northeast with very good managers. I was last in one of the towers in 2016.
Now that their new equipment is manned and operating I think there is more value to set up a few tours this coming summer.
 
and..... did they figure out you're issue yet??
how long has it been?

Mike, uAvionix did finally send a replacement unit. Feds turned my signal off in mid November, uAvionix finally delivered a replacement in early January. Life and weather conspired and finally got a flight done a week and a half ago. The PAPR on that flight showed no errors, whereas previous flights had 23% plus errors. I also noted that on the first unit, the red blinking light which indicates the unit hasn’t initialized yet, or has a problem of some kind, took several minutes (ten or so) to extinguish prior to flight. This unit, stops flashing in just a minute or so.

So, I’m hopeful the problem is fixed. I’m told that uAvionix had to replace a number of the early units. And, of course, they’re probably still selling these things like hot cakes. They’ve also just bought a new company that’s producing 3 1/8 inch PFDs and DGs, trying to compete with Garmin G-5. So they’re busy.

It’s a young Montana company, so hopefully, they’ll get it all together and produce good quality equipment.

MTV
 
Glad you appear to have gotten squared away, Mike.
Where in MT are they?
Kinda surprised when your problems weren't getting any attention that you didn't just show up at uAvionix HQ in person.
 
Glad you appear to have gotten squared away, Mike.
Where in MT are they?
Kinda surprised when your problems weren't getting any attention that you didn't just show up at uAvionix HQ in person.

Their corporate address is in Bigfork. The stuff is supposedly manufactured in Columbia Falls, I'm told.

Still a long hike from BZN.

MTV
 
Just got my uAvionix echoUAT installed earlier this week and my test flight done today. Simple install, but I had some problems with iPhone compatibility on the configuration app. Tech support was prompt and super helpful. Shoot, we talked airplanes for about 30 minutes - nice folks.

If you’re having set-up issues in the app, the trick is to put your phone in airplane mode before you try and configure. Turns out the smartphones realize there’s no internet connection from the WiFi signal and although they’re connected they just ignore it.

Easy pass on today’s flight. Glad to have flocked that booger.
 
So with no ADS B, and flying near a class B or C airspace with just a transponder can one still get flight following?


Sent from my Pixel 2 using SuperCub.Org mobile app

Tim--was talking to Boston TRACON a few weeks back and asked them how my ADS-B looked. Took them almost ten minutes to get back to me and then they said fly around for another ten minutes and do some turns--I was well inside the class B veil ( maybe 15-18 miles from the runways) and over the ocean (about a mile off shore) at 1500' over the water ---- so I guess that they are only equipped, at this point, to see your transponder, and have to go look at another screen or whatever to query your ADS-B. There must be computers that cross reference ADS-B out and a radar target broadcasting 1200 on a transponder or a specific code with a lag time. I know from past experience that in a PA12 without a broadcasting transponder is almost impossible to see on radar 25 miles from Boston. But--that said-- the radar facility itself ( antennas etc) is in Nashua NH-- but they have satellite radar on Cape Cod that they can switch to. Cape Approach is now Boston approach, but I understand that they are still using the local radar for the Coast Guard and the islands etc.
 
"The one area where Duke expects the FAA to be serious from the start involves intentionally turning off an ADS-B system when an exception does not apply. According to the handbook, “operating an aircraft without activated transponder or ADS-B Out transmission (except as provided in FAR 91.225(f)) for purposes of evading detection” will generally warrant certificate revocation."

https://www.aopa.org/news-and-media...ooth-start?utm_source=epilot&utm_medium=email

I wonder how the FAA will treat turning off ADS-B in non-rule airspace. I assume they will treat everything as "for the purpose of evading detection".
I believe that your question is answered in the very reply you quoted: "The one area where Duke expects the FAA to be serious from the start involves intentionally turning off an ADS-B system when an exception does not apply."

Further down that same page, it reiterates that, even more explicitly: "The FAA is focused on safety and security," said Justine Harrison, AOPA general counsel. "They will view intentionally turning off your ADS-B unit as a safety and security issue. Pilots can easily make a misstep by turning off their transponder, and there are very limited circumstances which allow a pilot to do so." The next paragraph goes on to say "Civilian aircraft can turn off their ADS-B Out only if specifically instructed to so so by ATC, or if they are the non-lead aircraft in a formation flight," Duke said.

The cited FAA Order 2150.3C Change 3 specifically shows a list (Figure 9-5 "Single Acts Generally Warranting Revocation", starting on
pg 9-13) that includes the following item 30: "Operating an aircraft without activated transponder or ADS-B Out transmission (except as provided in 14 C.F.R. 91.225(f)) for purposes of evading detection."

To me, that's pretty cut and dried: If you are ADS-B Out equipped, the transponder and ADS-B equipment have to be turned on unless ATC tells you to turn it off, or you are part of a formation flight and not the lead aircraft in that formation. The other other "defensible" position would be that the equipment has failed, you've logged that failure in your logs, and placarded the switches accordingly, and you're not flying in rule airspace.

I read another commentary on this topic, and that author stated that the FAA would probably come down very harshly on a pilot who willfully and knowingly violated the rule, and would likely throw the book at them. The FAA has been sending LOTS of "non-compliance" notices to the owner/operators of ADS-B equipped aircraft whose systems are not working as they should (there are threads in every aviation forum I'm involved in to this effect), so they are not only ABLE to monitor ADS-B traffic, they are ACTIVELY doing so.
Don't be the person we all read about when they get truly serious about enforcement. Right now, the FAA is treading lightly, giving the pilot community time to come up to speed and get with the program. Sooner or later, though, they are going to get serious about enforcement. I repeat: Don't be that person!
 
For you folks who are knowledgeable about this topic, is there any prohibition against removing ADSB equipment if an owner no longer intends to fly in rule airspace?
 
The rule reads as ADS-B needed if flying into certain airspace. If installed, it should be on. I see nothing that would prohibit removing it as un necessary if not operating in the specified airspace.

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