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ADS-B Issues

I put in the uAvionix tail beacon about 10 days after it was certified. I used a Dremmel to make some room in the cup and save all the material I could. Seemed to work well. Removal of the material took maybe an hour. Did a little magic with the mounting bezel as I didn’t make enough room in the cup to allow it to twist enough for a standard install. But the operational flight test went good. No issues. IMG_1230.JPG


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C130jake said:
Installed skybeacon on our PA12 and worked great right out of the box. I put one on my CCEX and get an ID error.
View attachment 45797

My Xpdr is a Garmin GTX23ES remote running thru my G3X Touch.
Any idea on what setting I’m messing up? (I realize my Xpdr has ADSb out but the Garmin certified GPS and wiring was the same cost and hours or days of wiring headaches vs 10 minutes.

Thanks,

Jake
Click to expand...

You've probably already done this, but I would verify the ICAO and N Number were saved correctly in the configuration first. If it's not that, I'd give uAvionix a call. I would expect this to be something pretty obvious in the configuration table.

-Cub Builder
 
wireweinie said:
... if the interrogation signal is coming from the left and the unit is mounted on the right wing tip, does the airframe block out all or part of the signal?
Web
Click to expand...

Cub Builder said:
The interrogation of the transponder usually comes from radar sites. Some areas of the country have sketchy coverage. Any time a Mode-C transponder replies to an interrogation, it sends the squawk code and Baro Alt as part of the data packet. .. The uAvionix ADS-B Out units are passive as far as the transponders go. They just listen in and sniff the data being broadcast by the transponder on 1090 MHZ, then incorporate that data into the UAT Output on 978 MHZ. If the transponder doesn't reply to an interrogation from RADAR, the ADS-B unit doesn't get updated data. After 45 - 60 seconds without getting refreshed data from the transponder, the data is considered stale and times out, so the ADS-B unit stops sending the squawk and Baro Alt data causing Mode 3A and Baro Alt failures respectively. These seem to be pretty typical of the uAvionics units in areas with poor radar coverage. If you fly the plane in an area with good radar coverage, the same unit will pass the PAPR.
-Cub Builder
Click to expand...

Cub Builder said:
......to help with the issue if you see the transponder is getting interrogated but the ADS-B unit isn't picking up the data reliably. However, those adjustments don't help if the transponder isn't being interrogated or isn't replying. If you don't see the "reply" or "transmit" light on the transponder flashing regularly, the ADS-B unit is not getting data if it is relying on sniffing the data from the transponder broadcast. If the transponder is flashing regularly indicating that it is being interrogated and replying to the interrogation, and you are seeing Mode 3A and Baro Alt failures, then it's time to start looking at antenna locations, reflectivity, blocking, RF interference or transponder output.

-Cub Builder
Click to expand...
I must be misinformed. It was my understanding when the FAA sold us on the idea of this new ADS-B mandate, they wanted to eliminate the radar ATC system and move all of the current radar functions into this new ADS-B system. Their eventual goal was to eliminate the excessive operation and maintenance costs of Radar?

Now, since these ADS-B out systems require a transponder output and that output does not happen unless the radar asks for it, how will this ADS-B system work when the radar is shut down? OR have we been lied to again and this is just one more step into being totally controlled by "big brother"?

I understand that the 1090 mhz units talk to satellites, however the 978 mhz units must be interrogated by radar. Since the 978 units are approved as being acceptable, then it must be another false premise that the radar is to be shut down.
 
mydoghasa170 said:
I put in the uAvionix tail beacon about 10 days after it was certified. I used a Dremmel to make some room in the cup and save all the material I could. Seemed to work well. Removal of the material took maybe an hour. Did a little magic with the mounting bezel as I didn’t make enough room in the cup to allow it to twist enough for a standard install. But the operational flight test went good. No issues. View attachment 45799


Sent from my iPhone using SuperCub.Org mobile app
Click to expand...

No issue with the depth of the tailBeacon hitting the fabric?
 
skywagon8a said:
I must be misinformed. It was my understanding when the FAA sold us on the idea of this new ADS-B mandate, they wanted to eliminate the radar ATC system and move all of the current radar functions into this new ADS-B system. Their eventual goal was to eliminate the excessive operation and maintenance costs of Radar?

Now, since these ADS-B out systems require a transponder output and that output does not happen unless the radar asks for it, how will this ADS-B system work when the radar is shut down? OR have we been lied to again and this is just one more step into being totally controlled by "big brother"?

I understand that the 1090 mhz units talk to satellites, however the 978 mhz units must be interrogated by radar. Since the 978 units are approved as being acceptable, then it must be another false premise that the radar is to be shut down.
Click to expand...

Bingo!

MTV
 
mvivion said:
….Last week, I got the “next” email from FAA, stating tha EVERY flight since September 9 exhibited at least one “fatal” (my term) error. As in every flight failed. ...
Click to expand...

Mike, I'm curious if your Skybeacon was in "anonymous" or regular mode?
 
skywagon8a said:
I must be misinformed. It was my understanding when the FAA sold us on the idea of this new ADS-B mandate, they wanted to eliminate the radar ATC system and move all of the current radar functions into this new ADS-B system. Their eventual goal was to eliminate the excessive operation and maintenance costs of Radar?

Now, since these ADS-B out systems require a transponder output and that output does not happen unless the radar asks for it, how will this ADS-B system work when the radar is shut down? OR have we been lied to again and this is just one more step into being totally controlled by "big brother"?

I understand that the 1090 mhz units talk to satellites, however the 978 mhz units must be interrogated by radar. Since the 978 units are approved as being acceptable, then it must be another false premise that the radar is to be shut down.
Click to expand...


The 1090-ES system is a RADAR transponder. The FAA isn't going to eliminate RADAR. The ADS-B system is to "enhance" radar. This was the next step after Mode-S, and they gave many of us a less expensive option to use UAT instead of Mode-S with Extended Squitter. The whole system is completely RADAR dependent, so there was never any plan to eliminate RADAR. Only to enhance it.

The UAT systems broadcast once a second. There is no interrogation to trigger it. In some configurations (tail and wing tip beacons) the Mode-C transponder has to reply to an interrogation in order for ADS-B unit to read the Squawk and Baro Alt data from the Mode-C transponder so it can rebroadcast the data on 978 mhz. That was part of the FAA's TSO requirement is that the Transponder and ADS-B Out are required to use the same source for squawk and Baro Alt Data. Some units can be wired directly to the transponder (if you have a modern transponder with a serial output) so they always have current data without needing to decipher the transponder replies.

The 1090-ES systems can be received by satellite, which will be a requirement in Canada, but most transponders are not capable of driving a top antenna as well as a bottom antenna (labelled as antenna diversity), so that is creating a whole new issue. But they are getting a lot of industry push back and have pushed back the implementation date and it doesn't look like it will affect the airspace most of us use for some time yet. Good Article on that on the AOPA web site.

-Cub Builder
 
hotrod180 said:
Mike, I'm curious if your Skybeacon was in "anonymous" or regular mode?
Click to expand...

FWIW, Anonymous mode will only mask your registration number for purposes of privacy from web site trackers. You still broadcast your ICAO number, so the FAA still knows who you are.

-Cub Builder
 
hotrod180 said:
Mike, I'm curious if your Skybeacon was in "anonymous" or regular mode?
Click to expand...

It's been on "regular" mode ever since I started getting error reports, since one possibility was that the anonymous mode was at least partially responsible for the error reports. Made no difference.

MTV
 
mvivion said:
It's been on "regular" mode ever since I started getting error reports, since one possibility was that the anonymous mode was at least partially responsible for the error reports. Made no difference.

MTV
Click to expand...

I’d start simple. Like bad connection somewhere or bad breaker or switch breaking down as it transmits... I bet it draws more than a light


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Cub Builder said:
FWIW, Anonymous mode will only mask your registration number for purposes of privacy from web site trackers. You still broadcast your ICAO number, so the FAA still knows who you are.
Click to expand...

Are you sure about this? Assuming a Mode C transponder squawking 1200 coupled with a 978 UAT-out device configured for anonymous mode, I don't see how this would happen. Disregard if we're talking about a Mode S transponder.

The SkyBeacon install manual says both ICAO code and Call Sign (N-number) are randomized.

In anonymous mode, skyBeacon transmits a randomized temporary address instead of the aircraft’s assigned ICAO address code, and a non- identifying Call Sign. The temporary address and Call Sign are disabled if the operator selects a non-1200 squawk code on the transponder. When enabled, the operator will not be eligible to receive ATC services.
Click to expand...

Same for GDL-82

In anonymous mode, the GDL 82 transmits a temporary address instead of the aircraft’s assigned ICAO address code, and a temporary Flight ID.
Click to expand...

Aside from the firmware bugs which were present in earlier versions of both SkyBeacon and GDL-82 (now corrected), these units should not be transmitting uniquely identifying information when in anonymous mode.
 
fancypants said:
Are you sure about this? Assuming a Mode C transponder squawking 1200 coupled with a 978 UAT-out device configured for anonymous mode, I don't see how this would happen. Disregard if we're talking about a Mode S transponder.

The SkyBeacon install manual says both ICAO code and Call Sign (N-number) are randomized.
Click to expand...

I stand corrected. Thank you.

-Cub Builder
 
Cub Builder said:
FWIW, Anonymous mode will only mask your registration number for purposes of privacy from web site trackers. You still broadcast your ICAO number, so the FAA still knows who you are. -Cub Builder
Click to expand...

That seems to be a common opinion.
However, it's my understanding that in anonymous the Skybeacon / Tailbeacon
transmit a "random temporary address" as per Fancypants' post.
I know that if I request a PAPR report for a flight when my Tailbeacon was set for anonymous,
I get a reply that says "your performance report request ….failed to generate a result."
That says to me that I am anonymous to the guvmint.
 
Steve Pierce said:
No issue with the depth of the tailBeacon hitting the fabric?
Click to expand...

No. Not on this one. If one presses, or pitches on either side of rudder, to “find” it, you can, but it’s well away from the fabric. I did, very slightly, “improve the radius” of the back of the unit, just in case. I’ll soon do another on a maule. Just eye-balling that one, I’ll be surprised if there is a not clearance issue. I’ll report back for the Maule dudes. I’d guess there will be some variances among the cubs as well.

As an aside, Maule tail navs (some at least) are grounded through the NAV bezel itself (no ground wire). A thread In a Maule blog reports the aluminum case of the uAvionix NAV unit is a sufficient ground when screwed to the mounting structure. Wild.


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Isn't it great that we are being chastised for a faulty system we didn't ask for. When Mode S became mandatory in Europe, all the new mode s transponders overloaded the system in Amsterdam and they had to shut them off. This is really about tracking us and sending a mileage bill, as planned for the highway system as well. I smell a rat, big time. BTW... Is anyone actually looking where they're going anymore? Would the public accept tracking of cars by anyone and everyone? No way. The thin edge of the wedge, once again.
 
WhiskeyMike said:
Isn't it great that we are being chastised for a faulty system we didn't ask for. When Mode S became mandatory in Europe, all the new mode s transponders overloaded the system in Amsterdam and they had to shut them off. This is really about tracking us and sending a mileage bill, as planned for the highway system as well. I smell a rat, big time. BTW... Is anyone actually looking where they're going anymore? Would the public accept tracking of cars by anyone and everyone? No way. The thin edge of the wedge, once again.
Click to expand...

I was thinking the same thing as I was scud running my sorry behind to an airport up here in AK today. I wouldn’t be too enthused about folks knowing where i was; unless I schucked a motor, of course. But then, on the way back, I passed a like minded idiot going the opposite direction but differed by 200’!! Would have been nice to see that guy before he was that close! The nice part of (most) of the “big brother” switches is that they can be turned ON/OFF. Take it or leave it on a daily basis.


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skywagon8a said:
I must be misinformed. It was my understanding when the FAA sold us on the idea of this new ADS-B mandate, they wanted to eliminate the radar ATC system and move all of the current radar functions into this new ADS-B system. Their eventual goal was to eliminate the excessive operation and maintenance costs of Radar?

Now, since these ADS-B out systems require a transponder output and that output does not happen unless the radar asks for it, how will this ADS-B system work when the radar is shut down? OR have we been lied to again and this is just one more step into being totally controlled by "big brother"?

I understand that the 1090 mhz units talk to satellites, however the 978 mhz units must be interrogated by radar. Since the 978 units are approved as being acceptable, then it must be another false premise that the radar is to be shut down.
Click to expand...

I question how radar fits into this when ship to ship talk to each other when out of radar coverage? I can see other Out equipped planes on my In and they can see my Out when we’re both in the backcountry and well out of radar coverage.
 
spinner2 said:
I question how radar fits into this when ship to ship talk to each other when out of radar coverage? I can see other Out equipped planes on my In and they can see my Out when we’re both in the backcountry and well out of radar coverage.
Click to expand...
Which frequency is your equipment operating on, 978 mhz or 1090 mhz? It is my understanding that only the 1090 mhz units talk to each other. The 978 mhz units have to communicate through a ground station prior to passing the signal to other aircraft.
 
skywagon8a said:
Which frequency is your equipment operating on, 978 mhz or 1090 mhz? It is my understanding that only the 1090 mhz units talk to each other. The 978 mhz units have to communicate through a ground station prior to passing the signal to other aircraft.
Click to expand...

1090 in the Cessna and 978 in the Cub.

I think the upcoming system in Canada is where 1090 talks to satellites. Our 1090 is ground based or ship to ship as I understand it.
 
It's complicated, and I don't fully grasp all of it, but the scenario spinner2 is talking about is not dependent on radar coverage. Both implementations of ADS-B out (1090ES and 978 UAT) will regularly transmit position and velocity data, regardless of radar coverage. So if your ADS-B in equipment can receive both 1090 and 978 (as most consumer portable ADS-B in equipment can), you should be able to see everything that's being broadcast near you. Some ADS-B in equipment only listens on 1090, requiring a ground station to rebroadcast (ADS-R) the 978 UAT data on 1090.

This PDF seems to lay it out pretty well: https://www.sigidwiki.com/images/8/85/ADS-B_Overview_Rev00_Avidyne.pdf
 
Radar will not go away. Radar is needed to see the bad guy’s basic skin paint when they turn off the transponder including any ads-b transmission. So there will always be some form of basic radar coverage within national airspace.


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I find it "interesting" that this system, which has been in the building for years, is nationwide in scope, and will become mandatory at least in some airspace in a little over a month is still incredibly misunderstood by a high percentage of pilots and airplane owners. And, I'm one of those, even though I've spent a fair amount of time trying to understand it's nuances.

I've said this before, but this has to be the most screwed up program the FAA has ever put together.....and that's saying something.

MTV
 
PA-12 Uavionix ADS-B out install

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mvivion said:
I find it "interesting" that this system, which has been in the building for years, is nationwide in scope, and will become mandatory at least in some airspace in a little over a month is still incredibly misunderstood by a high percentage of pilots and airplane owners. …..
Click to expand...

I agree.
ADS-B is just a month away from being mandatory.
Seems like active pilots, at least those in or near "rule airspace", would know more.
Of course, LSA & sport pilot rules have been in place for what, about 10 years now,
and lots of pilots still don't get that.
Ditto BasicMed.
 
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