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Thread: Hawker SBS J-16 in a Maule Approval?

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    Steve Pierce's Avatar
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    Hawker SBS J-16 in a Maule Approval?

    So I just got a phone call from the owner of a nearby FBO who is doing an annual on an M7 Maule that I replaced a Concord battery with a SBS J16 battery. His mechanic has an issue with it and says it requires a Field Approval. He says he called Maule and the FAA and both agree yet they could not provide any documentation that is was illegal. I have done these on many different aircraft quoting AC 43.13-2B Chapter 10. I also look at the definition of a major alteration and do not see it listed. I want to make sure I am doing this legally for both mine and the customer's sake. Can anyone point out anything I am missing?

    Appendix A to Part 43 - Major Alterations, Major Repairs, and Preventive Maintenance
    (a)Major alterations -
    (1)Airframe major alterations. Alterations of the following parts and alterations of the following types, when not listed in the aircraft specifications issued by the FAA, are airframe major alterations:
    (i) Wings.
    (ii) Tail surfaces.
    (iii) Fuselage.
    (iv) Engine mounts.
    (v) Control system.
    (vi) Landing gear.
    (vii) Hull or floats.
    (viii) Elements of an airframe including spars, ribs, fittings, shock absorbers, bracing, cowling, fairings, and balance weights.
    (ix) Hydraulic and electrical actuating system of components.
    (x) Rotor blades.
    (xi) Changes to the empty weight or empty balance which result in an increase in the maximum certificated weight or center of gravity limits of the aircraft.
    (xii) Changes to the basic design of the fuel, oil, cooling, heating, cabin pressurization, electrical, hydraulic, de-icing, or exhaust systems.
    (xiii) Changes to the wing or to fixed or movable control surfaces which affect flutter and vibration characteristics.
    Steve Pierce

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    Paragraph 1 at the opening of the AC provides all you need to know.

    1. PURPOSE. This advisory circular (AC) contains methods, techniques, and practicesacceptable to the Administrator for the inspection and alteration on non-pressurized areas of civilaircraft of 12,500 lbs gross weight or less. This AC is for use by mechanics, repair stations, andother certificated entities. This data generally pertains to minor alterations; however, the alterationdata herein may be used as approved data for major alterations when the AC chapter, page, andparagraph are listed in block 8 of FAA Form 337 when the user has determined that it is:a. Appropriate to the product being altered,b. Directly applicable to the alteration being made, andc. Not contrary to manufacturer’s data.
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    wireweinie's Avatar
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    The battery meets the requirements of CAR 3.682. Minor mod.

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    Use the flow chart in AC43.210a Figure 3-1, answer the questions, you come up with “consider as a minor repair or minor alteration”!

    Document the decision logic when you make a log book entry and you are done! Use the tools FAA provides and it makes life easy.


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    Steve Pierce's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by wireweinie View Post
    The battery meets the requirements of CAR 3.682. Minor mod.

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    §3.682 Batteries. When an item of
    electricalequipment which is essential to the safe
    operationof the airplane is installed, the battery
    requiredshall have sufficient capacity to supply
    theelectrical power necessary for dependable
    operationof the connected electrical equipment.
    Steve Pierce

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    Steve Pierce's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by dgapilot View Post
    Use the flow chart in AC43.210a Figure 3-1, answer the questions, you come up with “consider as a minor repair or minor alteration”!

    Document the decision logic when you make a log book entry and you are done! Use the tools FAA provides and it makes life easy.


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    FAA inspector I have dealt with before called back and agrees with me. Sees no need for an FAA Form 337 since it does not meet the definition of a major alteration. Informed the mechanic and he want FAA inspectors name and phone number so he could make a logbook entry. What a waste of time. He could have called me to began with and I could have provided him copies of the documents even though they were documented in the logbook entry for him to look up. Talked to him twice and the owner of the FBO, the owner of the aircraft and the FAA inspector. Oh well, the good thing is that it is resolved. I was really curious what leg the Dallas FSDO was going to stand on if he actually called them. Thanks for the additional documents and feedback. All is well that ends well.
    Attached Files Attached Files
    Steve Pierce

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  7. #7
    www.SkupTech.com mike mcs repair's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Steve Pierce View Post
    FAA inspector I have dealt with before called back and agrees with me. Sees no need for an FAA Form 337 since it does not meet the definition of a major alteration. Informed the mechanic and he want FAA inspectors name and phone number so he could make a logbook entry. What a waste of time. He could have called me to began with and I could have provided him copies of the documents even though they were documented in the logbook entry for him to look up. Talked to him twice and the owner of the FBO, the owner of the aircraft and the FAA inspector. Oh well, the good thing is that it is resolved. I was really curious what leg the Dallas FSDO was going to stand on if he actually called them. Thanks for the additional documents and feedback. All is well that ends well.
    Consultation rate is triple shop rate. And this should be at double that. Ask for mechanics credit card number for your time.


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    I need more crankin power than a Hawker J16, I know the J16 is approved by FAA, is there anything saying battery must be blessed with PMA or STC? I like this 400 cca AGM

    Deka ETX30L Battery Specifications:

    • Voltage: 12 Volt
    • Capacity: 26 Ah
    • CCA Rating: 400
    • Chemistry: AGM
    • Length: 6.63"
    • Width: 5.19"
    • Height: 6.88"
    • Weight: 23 Lbs
    • One Year Free Replacement Warranty
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Click image for larger version. 

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    From 43.13-2B
    a. Lead Acid.
    (1) Each aircraft storage battery, whether approved to a Technical Standards Order (TSO) or not, must be designed as required by regulation and installed as prescribed by the manufacturer
    Why do you need more CCA? An Odyssey PC625 has spun my O-520 to life for 20 years. Odyssey batteries are very impressive but EarthX is more impressive.

    Small batteries benefit from short cables.
    Last edited by stewartb; 09-18-2019 at 09:22 AM.
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    wireweinie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by stewartb View Post

    Small batteries benefit from short cables.
    YES!!!

    Thank you! Been trying to push that point for years.

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    Quote Originally Posted by wireweinie View Post
    YES!!!

    Thank you! Been trying to push that point for years.

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    Total resistance is a function of wire length and gage. Bigger wire can pass more electrons, shorter wire can pass more electrons! Make the wire bigger or shorter, more juice to the starter motor!


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    That is funny Maule told you it needed a field approval as they installed that same battery in mine as a log book sign off.
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    Steve Pierce's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by isaac View Post
    That is funny Maule told you it needed a field approval as they installed that same battery in mine as a log book sign off.
    Who knows who he talked to at Maule or if he actually did.
    Steve Pierce

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    S2D's Avatar
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    off topic, but I find this paragraph interesting:

    f. Always pour acid into water, NEVER pour water into acid
    I may be wrong but that probably won't stop me from arguing about it.
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  15. #15
    wireweinie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by S2D View Post
    off topic, but I find this paragraph interesting:

    f. Always pour acid into water, NEVER pour water into acid
    It's something to due with the reaction of the two. Ask Eddie to explain it. He's the chemical engineer.

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    Last edited by wireweinie; 09-19-2019 at 07:12 PM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by isaac View Post
    That is funny Maule told you it needed a field approval as they installed that same battery in mine as a log book sign off.
    Maule being the aircraft manufacturer and TC holder can do that. Someone else can not.
    N1PA
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    S2D's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by wireweinie View Post
    It's something to due with the reaction of the two. Ask Eddie to explain it. He's the chemical engineer.

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    Well us dumb farmers have been pouring water in our batteries (containing acid) for as long as I've known, so what is the point of that paragraph ??
    I may be wrong but that probably won't stop me from arguing about it.

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    Gordon Misch's Avatar
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    Ok, since nobody answered yet and I'm sitting in a hotel room in Idaho enroute New Mexico (yep, traveling in my -12), its cuz if it splashes it's the stuff being poured into that will splash up. Better that it be water than acid in your eyes. In the battery, it's contained. Well, sorta - - -
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