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Tradition Ferry Permit issuance method GONE

Yes Mark, Now that the malinformed FAA has decided to micromanage the traditional authority of an A&P, we will reverting to the "old fashioned" method of moving damaged and out of license airplanes. :evil:

Just making outlaws out of everyone


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some interesting photos. Would be great if you could note how you were repairing the specific planes with the photos. Some very clever ways to get things done!

we were advised by my stepfather(gordons dad, 'windy') and others in the photos what needed to happen... but not so much how to accomplish it..."it needs a muffler, a prop and 2 gear shoes..." was about it...(that was the SECOND prop we purchased in less than 2 WEEKS... think they were $5600 a pop.. first one got totaled in six days on other plane 81R, like 9 days before..)

how to get it back on the gear was never mentioned... we just decided to tip it on one wing, shovel till full, slide in a piece of wood... tip it other way.. repeat... till it got scary... then we put a gear leg in, dug a hole.. tipped it other way and repeated... then we would put a inch of soil in hole.. push it to other side of hole... fill soil, repeat...

we were actually at Brent Jones hunting camp on Dog Salmon river... so by the last step we had many people to come push it back and forth....

I was maybe 22 or 23? then... when we got it back to naknek and the Faa inspector visited on next part 135 inspection, and i showed him my winter project(rebuild.. this),(1 of 2) he said I REALLY needed to go write my test for my my A&P..... he was a really good inspector... always took time to work with me for years...4?
 
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many more might be on undeveloped rolls of film... 16 + years old... anyone recommend a place that developed old film, probably got close to 10 rolls....

kids these days have no idea that you had to save up $$ to buy and develop your pictures...
A few decades back a late friend of mine built up a school bus to be a mobile film processing shop for his son. One summer they drove it up to AK where his son settled in. Heard that soon he had two aircraft doing flight seeing tours.
I bet that bus in history now. His last name is Clark, don't recall his first.
 
Left a message with FSDO yesterday. Got a call today to expect a ferry permit in my email tomorrow morning. Painless.
 
A few decades back a late friend of mine built up a school bus to be a mobile film processing shop for his son. One summer they drove it up to AK where his son settled in. Heard that soon he had two aircraft doing flight seeing tours.
I bet that bus in history now. His last name is Clark, don't recall his first.

Tom Clark. Film business didn't last long. Last I heard, he was working for FSS Juneau which was many years ago.
 
Tom Clark. Film business didn't last long. Last I heard, he was working for FSS Juneau which was many years ago.

He was right at the begging of the digital age. Glad he found a way to stay.
 
Left a message with FSDO yesterday. Got a call today to expect a ferry permit in my email tomorrow morning. Painless.

It arrived in my email shortly after 7:30 this morning. Excellent service from the Wasilla FSDO office! Until yesterday I didn't even know they had a Wasilla office.
 
It arrived in my email shortly after 7:30 this morning. Excellent service from the Wasilla FSDO office! Until yesterday I didn't even know they had a Wasilla office.
Stewart, Does it require you to utilize the services of a DAR to authorize it's use? Or can an A&P sign off the flight as it always used to be? Your FAA in Alaska if far more enlightened than ours in the lower 48.
 
Stewart, Does it require you to utilize the services of a DAR to authorize it's use? Or can an A&P sign off the flight as it always used to be? Your FAA in Alaska if far more enlightened than ours in the lower 48.

Certified mechanic signs it. I snap a picture of the signed form and email it back to the FAA prior to the flight.
 
Isn't that the way it used to be (and should still be)?
Why do agencies always want to fix things that aren't broke (and ignore things that are)?
 
Certified mechanic signs it. I snap a picture of the signed form and email it back to the FAA prior to the flight.

that would be problematic if you were in the middle of nowhere, as I usually am when doing ferry work.... I'm sure they have a mechanism to deal with that.....
 
Isn't that the way it used to be (and should still be)?
Why do agencies always want to fix things that aren't broke (and ignore things that are)?

They tell me it’s because they don’t have time to do it. I sometimes think the office manager doesn’t want any potential liability or bad press for their office. What used to be a service paid for with taxes now becomes something that costs a lot of money to the end user. I’ve issued quite a few ferry permits since the change in policy. I try to be flexible with my clients, but a typical certification will start around $1000, just to cover time and expenses.

Now, if you aren’t happy with how ferry permits are now, wait until April when all certification activities have to go through the new”Airworthiness Certification Portal”. The applicant has to go in and fill out a web page that is similar to the 8130-6 form. He can select a DAR, then it goes to the FSDO. The FSDO then either passes it to the requested DAR, or one of their choosing. The DAR is notified via email, has to put a request into the Designee Management System, wait for his “managing specialist” at the FSDO to approve it, then he can finally go and inspect the aircraft, then he has to go into his version of the Airworthiness Certification Portal, complete a bunch of other bs data entry stuff, and then finally print off the ferry permit (or airworthiness certificate). Without internet access at the location where the aircraft is, figure a ride back to town just to fill this stuff out and print before you can go fly. Then we have more BS data entry stuff to finish it all up.

I don’t see this “new” system being very user friendly.


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I don't see any merit in involving a DAR for the FAA or the owner. A ferry permit is a temporary special airworthiness permit for a plane that a certificated mechanic signs off as "safe for the intended flight," which is defined in the limitations of the permit. I don't see where the FAA has any risk or an investment of more than a few moments of time in the process. But I didn't sleep at a Holiday Inn or buy any toilet paper yesterday, so I'm pretty insignificant in the big scheme of things.
 
I don't see any merit in involving a DAR for the FAA or the owner. A ferry permit is a temporary special airworthiness permit for a plane that a certificated mechanic signs off as "safe for the intended flight," which is defined in the limitations of the permit. I don't see where the FAA has any risk or an investment of more than a few moments of time in the process. But I didn't sleep at a Holiday Inn or buy any toilet paper yesterday, so I'm pretty insignificant in the big scheme of things.

Stewart, I can’t agree more on the merit of having a DAR issue vs the FAA issue.keep in mind that when a DAR issues, there is no requirement for an A&P to sign safe for flight as that is what the DAR is doing. That said, if temporary repairs are necessary, even though the DAR is an A&P, FAA considers it a conflict of interest to do those temporary repairs then sign the SFP. Don’t know why, but those are the rules I have to work under. In a lot of ways, using a DAR is easier. Years ago, I ran a repair station where all we did was insurance repairs. Every FSDO from Albany NY down to Atlanta and out to Columbus OH had different “rules” for ferry permits. It was a real pain and a big reason why I applied for getting a DAR.


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I don't see any merit in involving a DAR for the FAA or the owner. A ferry permit is a temporary special airworthiness permit for a plane that a certificated mechanic signs off as "safe for the intended flight," which is defined in the limitations of the permit. I don't see where the FAA has any risk or an investment of more than a few moments of time in the process. But I didn't sleep at a Holiday Inn or buy any toilet paper yesterday, so I'm pretty insignificant in the big scheme of things.

Yeah. But if the faa inspector makes the same money if he does zero field approvals and ferry permits, as he does doing 100 and he has zero liability why would he do any? That’s where I was with field approvals. Came down to they didn’t want the liability.


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We have had no problems at the Fargo office(fingers crossed), I can still get a permit in a couple of hours. At a recent conference the office manager said they are the only fully-staffed FSDO in the US.
 
Question
So the procedure is for a A&P to inspect and sign airworthiness document
Then email to FSDO??

I recall years ago calling FSDO and explaining the aircraft was only weeks past the annual deadline and receiving a faxed permit within hours, no inspection.




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I recall years ago calling FSDO and explaining the aircraft was only weeks past the annual deadline and receiving a faxed permit within hours, no inspection.
It still required an A & P's signature as being airworthy for the flight.
 
It still required an A & P's signature as being airworthy for the flight.

For a ferry permit issued by the FSDO, an A&P has to sign that the aircraft is safe for the intended flight, not airworthy! If it was airworthy there would be no need for a ferry permit.

For a Ferry Permit issued by a DAR, the DAR makes the “safe for flight” determination, and no A&P is required for the ferry permit. That’s not to say if repairs are necessary for the safe for flight determination, an A&P would be needed for signing off those repairs.


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For a ferry permit issued by the FSDO, an A&P has to sign that the aircraft is safe for the intended flight, not airworthy! If it was airworthy there would be no need for a ferry permit.

For a Ferry Permit issued by a DAR, the DAR makes the “safe for flight” determination, and no A&P is required for the ferry permit. That’s not to say if repairs are necessary for the safe for flight determination, an A&P would be needed for signing off those repairs.


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Right, so someone dings a wing on a landing on the north slope, several hundred miles from nowhere.

Now, we have to bring two pilots (one to ferry everyone to the site, and fly that plane home, and another to ferry the damaged one in), an A&P to perform repairs on the wing tip, and the DAR to inspect and sign the ferry permit.

Progress? Safer?

I think not.

Not every ferry flight is about an out of annual condition.

MTV
 
Well, most people up here won't go that route. We'll do the hasty repairs to get the aircraft home (or at least an airport). And since we now don't want to 'get caught', we'll do our best to insure no problems with the flight. So pretty much the same conditions as an old school ferry permit, where we didn't want any problems if our name was on the ferry permit, lol.

Web
 
. That’s not to say if repairs are necessary for the safe for flight determination, an A&P would be needed for signing off those repairs.


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The only thing I write is it’s safe for a single/or multiple flights to get it home.. starting and ending points.. and that no ads prohibit the flight... no details of the repairs, bandaids/tree parts holding it together



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This will look out of context because of all of the posts on the medical thread but here goes anyway. I read this whole thread again, reread my post and here it is, my feelings on the comments made:

That is great Stewart. So we are basically lying about our experiences getting a ferry permit because you called someone at the Houston FSDO and he told you how easy it is. I am glad. Maybe it will be that easy the next time I need one. I spend 30 years of my life doing this kind of work, take my time to share my experiences on a forum and get trolled by someone who has to delete their posts on a regular basis and change their name. I am sorry but I gotta laugh. I am not wasting my time typing all the f'd up experiences I have had in recent years trying to obtain a simple ferry permit. Actually most of them have been posted here already. Use to be easy, phone call, fax, logbook entry, I was on the hook and it was done. Maybe I am all wet behind the ears and it will all be a piece of cake, fill out the online form and all is good, time will tell.
 
This will look out of context because of all of the posts on the medical thread but here goes anyway. I read this whole thread again, reread my post and here it is, my feelings on the comments made:

That is great Stewart. So we are basically lying about our experiences getting a ferry permit because you called someone at the Houston FSDO and he told you how easy it is. I am glad. Maybe it will be that easy the next time I need one. I spend 30 years of my life doing this kind of work, take my time to share my experiences on a forum and get trolled by someone who has to delete their posts on a regular basis and change their name. I am sorry but I gotta laugh. I am not wasting my time typing all the f'd up experiences I have had in recent years trying to obtain a simple ferry permit. Actually most of them have been posted here already. Use to be easy, phone call, fax, logbook entry, I was on the hook and it was done. Maybe I am all wet behind the ears and it will all be a piece of cake, fill out the online form and all is good, time will tell.

link to the medical thread you refer to so i can get up to speed on the pissing match you are involved in????
 
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