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It's Ramp Check season in Alaska

cubflier

MEMBER
Palmer, AK
Although word is getting around, the FAA with Troopers in tow are making rounds at all the local airports from Anchorage to Talkeetna. It's not a bad time to look in the wallet and your aircraft to make sure you have your paper stuff together in case you get a courtesy inspection.

Jerry
 
They were at birchwood today and a few days ago. They show up early in the morning like 7 ish. Gone by lunch.... or so it seems.


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They checked me last Friday, there were 2 and were just doing training. So I unloaded on them about someone stealing gas out of my airplane on the gravel strip. They gave me the standard governmental answer said it wasn't there problem. Also turned out a bunch of my neighbors had there gas stolen too
 
I suppose it's a little like a cop sitting on the side of the freeway. No intention or expectation of writing a ticket but the presence makes all the drivers behave.

I get that commercial operators with a tight schedule (always running behind) get annoyed by the interruption. I've got no heartburn with it myself. My own ramp experiences have been friendly and uneventful.
 
I had to go in to see the fellas at the Rapid City FSDO last week after Wiley made off with my airworthiness certificate. I will have to say them folks treated me well and timely. You have to remember, like most law enforcement folks, their bosses (i.e. fed, state, & local govmts) use them as a revenue gerating arm.
 
There was one season when all Inspectors were required to meet a “quota” of ramp checks, in Fairbanks, at least.

I got ramp checked so many times that summer it was ridiculous. I finally asked one of the “good” Inspectors what was going on. His response was: “You’re Flying a Public Aircraft. If we find something, we can’t actually do anything about it.....no harm, no foul.” So I asked him to pass on to other Inspectors that they should ASK me if I have time for a ramp check. From then on, they did. If I was busy I’d say nope, and they’d leave. If not, we’d do the dance. Most times, I think they counted it either way.

None of them took more than ten minutes in any case....filling squares.

There was one exception, but that story is for another day.

MTV
 
I once got ramped checked, at Merrill, twice in the same afternoon by the same inspector. Must have been a slow day.
 
Does anyone have a thorough knowledge of what the FAA can and can't do in a ramp check?

A specific question of mine is are they allowed on my lease property? I'm talking the actual property and not about going inside my hangar.

Jerry
 
Does anyone have a thorough knowledge of what the FAA can and can't do in a ramp check?

A specific question of mine is are they allowed on my lease property? I'm talking the actual property and not about going inside my hangar.

Jerry


I believe were I trying to be confrontational, I would not allow them on MY property. Or as has been done on a public airport where a pilot was confronted with a a check, He told them he didn’t have time and went a waited them out.
https://www.aopa.org/news-and-media...25/preparation-takes-sting-out-of-ramp-checks
 
Last edited:
Does anyone have a thorough knowledge of what the FAA can and can't do in a ramp check?

A specific question of mine is are they allowed on my lease property? I'm talking the actual property and not about going inside my hangar.

Jerry

Extend that question to include private airports. I'm not at all concerned with ramp checks but I do wonder about the rules of engagement.
 
I believe were I trying to be confrontational, I would not allow them on MY property. Or as has been done on a public airport where a pilot was confronted with a a check, He told them he didn’t have time and went a waited them out.
https://www.aopa.org/news-and-media...25/preparation-takes-sting-out-of-ramp-checks

It has nothing with being confrontational. It has everything to with understanding your rights. I have read chapter 56 and all the AOPA stuff that I can find and can't find out where limitations are placed on inspectors as to property access. I would assume it's covered by other legal authority. With regards to lease property access this is something I was told by another pilot and I do not think that this is correct.

Other issues are access to the inside of your aircraft. It states in chapter 56 that FAA may not board an aircraft without your knowledge. Some of the articles I have read use the word permission instead of knowledge. Here is an example. https://studentpilotnews.com/2013/08/07/faa-ramp-checks-know-your-rights/

Knowing your rights is something I take as an individual responsibility.

Jerry
 
Would assume this below applies to private property as well as aircraft itself!



As it pertains to Private pilots and so-called "ramp checks," the Fourth Amendment means that an FAAInspector does not have the right to board or enter your private property(your aircraft) unless he has a search warrant.
Oct 9, 2013
 
All the FAA regulations are just that, regulations under Title 14 of the code of federal regulations. They are not LAWS in the same sense as the criminal code. They are issued by an administrative agency that is part of the Executive branch of the Federal Government. Under Administrative Law, unlike criminal law, you have no presumption of innocence. That does not negate those rights affirmed under the Bill of Rights. All FAA inspectors are supposed to identify themselves, and can’t use entrapment methods to get you. If there is someone unknown around your airplane you should do 3 things, 1. Close the airplane (or hangar) door. 2. Ask if they are with the FAA. And finally if they respond yes, 3. Shut your mouth!

You have the right to remain silent. They can’t inspect your property without either your permission, or a warrant. Once the door is closed, they can look around the outside and look in the windows, but they can’t trespass and open doors or inspection panels. Most FAA violations are prosecuted based on statements made by the defendant. Self incrimination is the biggest issue with any enforcement case. If they press the issue, just respond that you will be happy to answer any questions when your attorney is present. If you ever get from the tower “call us when you get on the ground” DON’T, just by calling you have incriminated yourself!

As far as your airplane, the most they can do is hang a “condition tag” on it that says something like “ if you operate this aircraft, you may be in violation of 14 CFR”. They have no power to “ground” the airplane. They can only issue a letter of investigation if they see a possible violation, or if someone else sees and reports a possible violation. In truth, it is very hard for them to even move forward with a letter of investigation unless you admit you did something wrong.

I’m not a lawyer, and this is not legal advise. Consult an attorney for any legal issues.


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As far as your airplane, the most they can do is hang a “condition tag” on it that says something like “ if you operate this aircraft, you may be in violation of 14 CFR”. They have no power to “ground” the airplane. ..

they used to come out to naknek and red tag airplanes...... laughably ones that obviously hadn't flown in decades and were missing parts... or sunk into the ground it had been so long since they moved.... ernie tagged one of ours, for a crack he could see in a brake shoe, like they do by the rivets... except he couldn't figure out what to call it....
 
How many of you have had an enforcement action result from a ramp check or know someone who has? Myself? Nada.

On the provide permission thing? I have no motivation to deny it and I'd be much more concerned with a PO'd FAA guy with a warrant than a brief visit that usually turns into talk about cool airplane mods, fishing spots, and the like. I have strangers stop and ask to see my planes and that doesn't bother me. The FAA guys are no more threatening than passer-by pilots. If an FAA guy wants inside my hangar? He'd better bring beer.
 
I keep waiting for them to visit. I need a new CO detector card and they sometimes have them. Checking a 78 year old plane is always interesting.

Gary
 
misguided advice

As a FAA air traffic controller at a Center I must say, you most definitely are not incriminating yourself by calling us if you are asked to. Most of the time we want to educate and that's about it, obviously there are pilot deviations that go further, but we aren't the FSDO. If you screwed up bad enough to warrant a "please give us a call" maybe you should be careful with your answers as the line will probably be recorded, but it takes a pretty big mistake for it to go anywhere past us needing a statement. Most of us on here are just bombing around VFR and having fun, when part 121 carriers have pilot deviations and loss of separation happens, sure, you might want to have a lawyer when you call. Your mileage may vary, but I encourage all pilots to take tours and call their local control facilities, it helps knowing the other side of it. My 2 cents.

All the FAA regulations are just that, regulations under Title 14 of the code of federal regulations. They are not LAWS in the same sense as the criminal code. They are issued by an administrative agency that is part of the Executive branch of the Federal Government. Under Administrative Law, unlike criminal law, you have no presumption of innocence. That does not negate those rights affirmed under the Bill of Rights. All FAA inspectors are supposed to identify themselves, and can’t use entrapment methods to get you. If there is someone unknown around your airplane you should do 3 things, 1. Close the airplane (or hangar) door. 2. Ask if they are with the FAA. And finally if they respond yes, 3. Shut your mouth!

You have the right to remain silent. They can’t inspect your property without either your permission, or a warrant. Once the door is closed, they can look around the outside and look in the windows, but they can’t trespass and open doors or inspection panels. Most FAA violations are prosecuted based on statements made by the defendant. Self incrimination is the biggest issue with any enforcement case. If they press the issue, just respond that you will be happy to answer any questions when your attorney is present. If you ever get from the tower “call us when you get on the ground” DON’T, just by calling you have incriminated yourself!

As far as your airplane, the most they can do is hang a “condition tag” on it that says something like “ if you operate this aircraft, you may be in violation of 14 CFR”. They have no power to “ground” the airplane. They can only issue a letter of investigation if they see a possible violation, or if someone else sees and reports a possible violation. In truth, it is very hard for them to even move forward with a letter of investigation unless you admit you did something wrong.

I’m not a lawyer, and this is not legal advise. Consult an attorney for any legal issues.


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How many of you have had an enforcement action result from a ramp check or know someone who has? Myself? Nada.

On the provide permission thing? I have no motivation to deny it and I'd be much more concerned with a PO'd FAA guy with a warrant than a brief visit that usually turns into talk about cool airplane mods, fishing spots, and the like. I have strangers stop and ask to see my planes and that doesn't bother me. The FAA guys are no more threatening than passer-by pilots. If an FAA guy wants inside my hangar? He'd better bring beer.

In my years of flying I can count the number of times (personal flying) I’ve been ramped. I watched a couple of private individuals years back in DLG get ramped that threw a big stink and I had to laugh cause doing just that raised sh@#loads of red flags. The inspector kindly told one to have a airworthiness cert reissued and the other to get a medical. That was it. I get the fact that some of us don’t want ANY encroachment from any law dog types and I can’t blame one for whatever reason that might be.
Many years ago though there was an ANC FSDO inspector that would fly his plane out to the Nushagak during King season and literally wait in the bushes and ramp ANY individual and operator. Wearing a fishing vest and hip boots approach you then and then sling his badge on a lanyard out pull a video camera out and go to work. Caused lots of pilots to avoid Portage Creek.LOL Rumor was that he got Alaska Airlines to change their FOM to accommodate bearded inspectors in the cockpit when one of our Captains booted him off the jumpseat for having a full beard. FOM said needed to be clean shaven for O2 mask to seal properly (urban legend).
I could care less about being ramped/route checked on my free time or at my 121 carrier. Unless they are being jerks. Nothing to hide.....anymore.LOL
 
..... Unless they are being jerks. Nothing to hide.....anymore.LOL
:lol: That is when the fun starts. It is possible to turn those jerks around into being your best bud with them actually kissing your behind forever after. Over the years I have managed to get a few of them wrapped around my little finger. :cheers
 
While i have never been ramp checked :bang (knock on wood) I have been in their offices a couple times. My observation would be that they are usualy chin deep in paper work in their little holes and ramp check days would be a fun day at the airport for them and they would be in a fairly good mood.

When I was on final one time with a CAP 182 tower told a md11 to hold short for landing traffic (me). They pulled in to position while i was on short final so i broke right and went aound. I then heard tower tell them to call tower on the phone when they land. Bet it wasn't exchanging pleasantries.
 
Last time I was asked (ordered?) to call tower after landing, I spoke with the local (contract) ATC Chief. He explained to me that if I were to use a different runway for my departures in future, they (ATC) could get me out much quicker with no hold. He explained the flow of traffic, and all this made sense. I’ve almost exclusively used this little “secret” since, when departing.

He didn’t have to make that effort, but it made operations smoother for both of us.

MTV
 
….All FAA inspectors are supposed to identify themselves, and can’t use entrapment methods to get you. If there is someone unknown around your airplane you should do 3 things, 1. Close the airplane (or hangar) door. 2. Ask if they are with the FAA. And finally if they respond yes, 3. Shut your mouth! ….

Couple years ago, my mechanic buddy was talking to a guy in his hangar when I wandered in.
He introduced me to the guy, his name rang a bell but I wasn't sure, so I asked "are you an FAA guy?"
He replied "maybe".
Found out later he was the FSDO's new maintenance inspector for our area.
I thought that was a BS way to respond.
Saw him a few years later at an aviation show,
he was the only guy (of many) manning the FAA booths that wasn't wearing a name tag.
 
Been ramp checked more times than I got fingers over the years at IAC contests. Generally good experience with most, But , As with anything, depends on the person doing it! A few bad experiences will forever put a bad taste in your mouth.
Have seen some really piss poor bureaucracy demonstrated a few times. Once at a contest in the N.E. After watching the way they were behaving with others , I refused them and this was after passing tech inspection by the IAC which is more detailed. Kinda pissed the one with attitude off. Eventually he left and life continued.
 
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