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Thread: Avoid rust in the engine; how?

  1. #41

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    Quote Originally Posted by The Kid View Post
    Yes, I put all the time on this engine flying about 2 hrs a week all year long. I think I will: 1. Add heat in the hanger to keep it 35-45. 2. Get the machine that you plug into the breather pipe when not flying. 3. Don't preheat with a oil pan heater any more. 4. Use 80 oil year round as it seems to me it is good from about 30 to 90 degrees startup. 5. Use Camgard. 6. What else?
    Seems to me having a pan or other engine heater on all the time has a negative impact on engines but certainly not when used as preheat immediately before a flight when engine temps will continue to rise. Reading all of the comments also make me think that putting on an engine cover after all flights to slow the cooling process might have benefits at a low cost.
    Staying alive in an airplane has a lot more to do with mastering ourselves than mastering the aircraft.

  2. #42

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    Leaving preheat on all the time almost certainly results in parts of the engine having cool spots. These will be the first to have condensation. If a Prop is one a large heat sink. So, I imagine a constant speed prop hub as just one issue with fighting moisture and corrosion if a heater is left on all winter.

    The article in post #29 is worthy. A twin cessna owner monitors the temp and dew point inside the case of his engines using different methods. He posted what I think is real scientific data of whats going on inside the case after shutdown.

  3. #43

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    Corrosion is a chemical reaction. Absolute humidity ( moisture content) of the air and temperature are the determining factors. Cold and dry is good. Warm and dry is not quite as good, since warm air can hold more moisture. In my climate (arctic), heating the hangar would not be worth the expense. The outside air in winter contains so little moisture that I prefer to let things remain cold.
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  4. #44

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    Quote Originally Posted by NunavutPA-12 View Post
    Corrosion is a chemical reaction. Absolute humidity ( moisture content) of the air and temperature are the determining factors. Cold and dry is good. Warm and dry is not quite as good, since warm air can hold more moisture. In my climate (arctic), heating the hangar would not be worth the expense. The outside air in winter contains so little moisture that I prefer to let things remain cold.
    Good point. And every chemical reaction happens at a faster rate with increasing temperature. Seems the best thing would be to freeze-dry the engine after every flight. If so, I guess we’re looking for the second-best thing!

  5. #45

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    Maybe somebody should test argon or a similar dry, heavy gas. Inject argon into the oil filler to displace air. No more humidity. It could work.

  6. #46

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    Quote Originally Posted by stewartb View Post
    Maybe somebody should test argon or a similar dry, heavy gas. Inject argon into the oil filler to displace air. No more humidity. It could work.
    MaBell used to set nitrogen tanks to dry out phone moisture prone trunk lines in the pre-fiber days, worked wonders. They would purge at a high rate and then reduce to a maintenance rate for long term.
    Remember, These are the Good old Days!

  7. #47
    Eddie Foy's Avatar
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    Nitrogen will accomplish the same result for a lot less money. "Noble" gases are expensive.


    Quote Originally Posted by stewartb View Post
    Maybe somebody should test argon or a similar dry, heavy gas. Inject argon into the oil filler to displace air. No more humidity. It could work.
    "Put out my hand and touched the face of God!"

  8. #48

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    I have nitrogen bottle in the hangar and several argon bottles in the shop. I may play with this idea as an alternative to an engine dehydrator system in a heated hangar. Like Kirby says you'd need some volume to purge but maintenance would require very little. To devise an automatic metering system would be the trick. They must exist somewhere out there.
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  9. #49
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    Quote Originally Posted by OLDCROWE View Post
    MaBell used to set nitrogen tanks to dry out phone moisture prone trunk lines in the pre-fiber days, worked wonders. They would purge at a high rate and then reduce to a maintenance rate for long term.
    So that's what those were for. I recall seeing bottles tied to the pole but never figured out why.
    N1PA

  10. #50
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    I can recall a certain airplane that sat outside in Fairbanks, engine heater plugged in all winter, engine cover on, just “in case” the operator needed to go fly. There were a couple winters where that plane didn’t fly four or five hours, if that. I figured that engine would be a pile of rust.

    Then, I wound up flying it, for three or four hundred hours......great engine, and I’m pretty sure it went to TBO without any unusual maintenance. Go figure.

    I can testify that these conversations have been going on for at least fifty years, and frankly, I’m not sure we’re any more knowledgeable on how to prevent engine corrosion than we were when I started flying. Of course, nowadays an engine overhaul costs more than most houses did back then.

    The one pretty well proven method to prevent corrosion in an airplane engine: Fly the hell out of it.

    MTV
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  11. #51
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    Quote Originally Posted by mvivion View Post
    I can recall a certain airplane that sat outside in Fairbanks, engine heater plugged in all winter, engine cover on, just “in case” the operator needed to go fly. There were a couple winters where that plane didn’t fly four or five hours, if that. I figured that engine would be a pile of rust.....

    MTV
    Mike, Isn't the humidity extremely low in Fairbanks, especially in the winter? I would think that the low humidity would take precedence over the temperature of the engine being warm. If there was very little moisture in the engine, what does it matter what the temperature is?
    N1PA

  12. #52

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    Quote Originally Posted by skywagon8a View Post
    So that's what those were for. I recall seeing bottles tied to the pole but never figured out why.
    Had a permanent one installed near my house for years and years, any time it rained big the phone got staticky so after a few years of watching I'd just walk by and turn up the regulator... worked wonders
    Last edited by OLDCROWE; 09-06-2019 at 03:10 PM.
    Remember, These are the Good old Days!
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  13. #53
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    Quote Originally Posted by skywagon8a View Post
    Mike, Isn't the humidity extremely low in Fairbanks, especially in the winter? I would think that the low humidity would take precedence over the temperature of the engine being warm. If there was very little moisture in the engine, what does it matter what the temperature is?
    True enough, Pete, but I have seen several other engines in Fairbanks turn up significantly rusty......but I don't know how those engines were treated over a long period of time, other than I know they sat idle for a long time.

    But, in any case, every time you run an engine, you wind up with some moisture inside the engine, regardless of the outside environment, due to water in the fuel.

    You're right, though, if I were going to park an airplane, I'd rather have it parked in FAI than Orlando.

    MTV
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  14. #54
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    Quote Originally Posted by WindOnHisNose View Post
    A good fellow on this website crafts a nice dryer which attaches to the oil filler port on the engine.

    Basically, he makes a tube which is filled with a dessicant that is blue when dry and effective, pink when it needs to be recharged. An aquarium pump is utilized to pump air through a filter and into the bottom of the dessicant tube. The air exits at the top of the tube, through another filter. The tubing is connected to an attachment which then is affixed to a plug that is threaded to fit the oil filler port. He sets the timer to activate for a few minutes at a variety of times throughout the day.

    Our engine gurus at Bolduc Aviation/Horizon thinks this to be quite helpful.

    There is a different plug for each aircraft.

    Attachment 44289
    Note the small clear plastic observation port just below the exit point of the dessicant tube, which allows me to see when it is time to dry the dessicant. When it turns pink I simply take off the top of the dessicant tube, pour the dessicant beads into a bucket, take them home and put them in a turkey roasting oven. I stir them once in awhile and after a few hours the beads have returned to their blue color, which indicates that they are dry and ready to go back into action.

    Attachment 44290

    Attachment 44291

    Attachment 44292

    I like the concept. The engine folks think that this will keep dry air in and keeping the aircraft hangared is also a big plus from their perspective. They also suggest Camguard, which I use in my aircraft. It helps, too, that I fly each aircraft a lot.

    Randy

    Looks fairly simple. Do you have a contact/price on it?

  15. #55

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    Quote Originally Posted by mvivion View Post
    True enough, Pete, but I have seen several other engines in Fairbanks turn up significantly rusty......but I don't know how those engines were treated over a long period of time, other than I know they sat idle for a long time.

    But, in any case, every time you run an engine, you wind up with some moisture inside the engine, regardless of the outside environment, due to water in the fuel.

    You're right, though, if I were going to park an airplane, I'd rather have it parked in FAI than Orlando.

    MTV
    Mid-winter, the ABSOLUTE humidity in the arctic is very low. The RELATIVE humidity, though, is very high,approaching 100 percent on many days. That's why we see ice crystals precipitating out of a clear sky, or ice fog that enshrouds the entire town when triggered by the moisture from chimneys, vehicle exhaust or an aircraft taking off.
    It's the absolute humidity that causes the damage. A 'plane parked outside in Yellowknife or Fairbanks will suffer far less than one parked in New Orleans, summer or winter.
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  16. #56
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    Quote Originally Posted by mvivion View Post
    I can recall a certain airplane that sat outside in Fairbanks, engine heater plugged in all winter, engine cover on, just “in case” the operator needed to go fly. There were a couple winters where that plane didn’t fly four or five hours, if that. I figured that engine would be a pile of rust.

    Then, I wound up flying it, for three or four hundred hours......great engine, and I’m pretty sure it went to TBO without any unusual maintenance. Go figure.

    I can testify that these conversations have been going on for at least fifty years, and frankly, I’m not sure we’re any more knowledgeable on how to prevent engine corrosion than we were when I started flying. Of course, nowadays an engine overhaul costs more than most houses did back then.

    The one pretty well proven method to prevent corrosion in an airplane engine: Fly the hell out of it.

    MTV
    My father put a factory new 0-360 on his 172 in 2005. He has a Tanis heater, cylinder and sump plugs. In the winter he would plug it in on a timer. It would come on every morning and shut off around noon. 15w50 aero shell and no camguard. He was mostly the only one flying it. That engine went to tbo last year. Couple hundred hours over. Only thing I had to do was replace the intake gaskets, they cracked and at almost 2000 hr on the nose the slick mags took a dump. Other then that zero maint. Never had to pull a cyl or anything. Got it overhauled this winter and it looked like new inside.


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  17. #57
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    Quote Originally Posted by RaisedByWolves View Post
    My father put a factory new 0-360 on his 172 in 2005. He has a Tanis heater, cylinder and sump plugs. In the winter he would plug it in on a timer. It would come on every morning and shut off around noon. 15w50 aero shell and no camguard. He was mostly the only one flying it. That engine went to tbo last year. Couple hundred hours over. Only thing I had to do was replace the intake gaskets, they cracked and at almost 2000 hr on the nose the slick mags took a dump. Other then that zero maint. Never had to pull a cyl or anything. Got it overhauled this winter and it looked like new inside.


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    ~150-155 hours a year. That doesn't sound too shabby

  18. #58

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    I have tried to email/contact these guys twice, www.enginedryingsystem.com with no reply, do they have a number I could call, this system looks like it might suit my situation.
    Jim
    Last edited by jimbenbow; 09-22-2019 at 06:08 PM.

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