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Thread: SuperStol VS Supercub Pros/Cons...Im looking to buy

  1. #81

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    Ive burned AV gas on long trips in my Rotax 80 hp 912...i just use the decaline lead scavenger additive to help reduce the build up. What did they have for engines in the S7's? What do you have for an engine in your cub?

    Quote Originally Posted by thaefeli View Post
    Two guys here with S-7's. We do a lot of goofing around together. Solo. the S-7 will kick my butt on takeoff and landings. Put a passenger or bags into the equation and everything changes. When we go camping, guess who gets to carry all the extra stuff ( belly pod)? Oh yeah, two precautionary landings now with the 912 crowd (realistically, one carb shutdowns, meaning they have the choice of where to land but not going too far since they are running on two cyls) Apples and oranges for sure.
    They also brag about the 3.5 gph fuel burn. Awesome! They have to drive 14 miles to get premium, non ethanol fuel with lots of five gallon cans in the back of an SUV to do so. They are retired, keeps them, out of trouble.......

  2. #82

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    What engine do you have? You fly a Rans S7 ?

  3. #83

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    I was trying to "reply with quote" to the couriorguy with the pic...still getting used to this site...and my computer was locking up when i tried to reply with quote...must been because of the big photo
    , thanks for all the replies guys

    Quote Originally Posted by Backpacker View Post
    What engine do you have? You fly a Rans S7 ?

  4. #84

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    Good stuff BDA...
    “Safety is a big one for me, I have not been able to get the XL to wing over yet. The slats just keep it flying.”
    I have heard several guys claim that regarding their cub with slats as well. However I have slats on my cub and find that I can still wing over if I choose, as well as enter a spin...maybe I am just that good at being bad...to spin you really have to get the thing “ugly”...and it will enter a spin...however when flying normal, and even getting a bit uncoordinated in a tight turn it will NOT spin... However, we all did see the exp cub in Talkeetna STOL comp start to fall out of the sky...technically the beginning of a spin...

    on another issue...I do not feel stats add to surface area for wing loading as one poster posted...if I understand they force air over the wing, aiding it to hold on logs...thus creating a better vacuum...I could be wrong...

    again...good stuff...be safe everyone!

  5. #85

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    Handley Page style slats add wing area.
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  6. #86

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    Quote Originally Posted by CharlieN View Post
    Handley Page style slats add wing area.
    I guess I respectfully disagree from a couple standpoints...one the structural integrity of carbon fiber stats would not withstand “load”, but can withstand horizontal pressure due to aerodynamic design - unless they were positively connected to the spar which mine are not...leading edge. Next in my research of slats prior to putting on my cub I reviewed hours and hours of Handley page information and studies. I believe in my reading H.P. slots did contribute to surface area and wing load...however they also contributed to increases drag...Page first tried slots on the
    H.P. 17. around 1917. In 1919 Page developed the H.P. 20, which were fitted with what he first called controllable slots, and later became know as slats Slots and slats do increase lift coefficient when deployed in takeoff or landing configurations at high angle of attacks.

    As as usual I could be completely wrong, but feel pretty confident my slats, the carbon fiber version would rip off if they were a significant factor in surface area for wing loading purposes.

    Fun discussion...for what it’s worth on the original topic, I am a cub guy, but have been intrigued by the numbers of small STOL type aircraft. I feel they are WAY overpriced, but pretty neat planes...on that note I feel many cubs a way overpriced as well.

    Respectfully,
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  7. #87

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    If you think your slats would rip off you had better do a major rethink of your engineering and material properties.
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  8. #88
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    Quote Originally Posted by J5Ron View Post
    I guess I respectfully disagree from a couple standpoints...one the structural integrity of carbon fiber stats would not withstand “load”, but can withstand horizontal pressure due to aerodynamic design - unless they were positively connected to the spar which mine are not...leading edge. Next in my research of slats prior to putting on my cub I reviewed hours and hours of Handley page information and studies. I believe in my reading H.P. slots did contribute to surface area and wing load...however they also contributed to increases drag...Page first tried slots on the
    H.P. 17. around 1917. In 1919 Page developed the H.P. 20, which were fitted with what he first called controllable slots, and later became know as slats Slots and slats do increase lift coefficient when deployed in takeoff or landing configurations at high angle of attacks.

    As as usual I could be completely wrong, but feel pretty confident my slats, the carbon fiber version would rip off if they were a significant factor in surface area for wing loading purposes.

    Fun discussion...for what it’s worth on the original topic, I am a cub guy, but have been intrigued by the numbers of small STOL type aircraft. I feel they are WAY overpriced, but pretty neat planes...on that note I feel many cubs a way overpriced as well.

    Respectfully,

    Ron , ya might want to rethink your mindset on the slats adding to the wing area. Good post , Would love to see some pic’s of your bird.

  9. #89

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    Quote Originally Posted by flyrite View Post
    Ron , ya might want to rethink your mindset on the slats adding to the wing area. Good post , Would love to see some pic’s of your bird.
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    Mine basic Carbon concept slats, with a minor change in positive connection to the leading edge...my exp cub is basic cub design...lots of carbon fiber parts. I can only imagine flyrite you have vast experience with these slats...I am poised to learn...would love some pics of your slat equipped plane. I am here to learn...
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  10. #90
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    Wow, Like the plane. Ya got it setup right, belly pod, slats, Do you have the VG’s as well?
    On the slats adding to wing area, Obviously slats add to the cord so that adds wing area.I Like the trailing edge adjustable slats like yours and the Backcountry planes, Got to help cruise. Simpliar and lighter to install , Unlike the Super Stol and the Helios that retract , Reducing cord.
    Mine are fixed , Wasn’t that concerned bout the cruise hit so kept it as simple as possible. Below is a link to my Vimeo page that tells about my plane.

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  11. #91

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    Wow, ya got a lot going on there flyrite! Viva la experimental!

    I see Joe Dory now has slats on his cub, not sure what type, but I would really like to pick his brain as to exactly how they have changed his off airport ops. As in, landing shorter places, getting off shorter, whatever, out in the real world as it were, not just in STOL demos at paved airports.

    I know Bruce of Back Country Cubs has slats on the Rans S-7 he uses as a coyote getter, and I heard that he had tried them earlier, but with the stock Rotax 912S they for some reason could not reach their full potential. Then he had the engine hot rodded and had enough "extra" power to make them work real well. Which got me thinking, I get in pretty darn short right now and don't want or need to get in so short I can't get out, so what the ratio is between getting you in AND back out is my interest. Pic is from a couple days, rocks were camoed real well, blended right in from the air, not so bad where I landed but up at the turnaround....damn.

    I did something I never needed to do before, after walking my takeoff slot, I realized there were some real embedded tire rippers out there, and I have brand new Airstreaks, so I took short pieces of toilet paper (never fly without it, unused) and marked my departure lane, which worked well.
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  12. #92

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    Quote Originally Posted by J5Ron View Post
    I guess I respectfully disagree from a couple standpoints...one the structural integrity of carbon fiber stats would not withstand “load”, but can withstand horizontal pressure due to aerodynamic design - unless they were positively connected to the spar which mine are not...leading edge. Next in my research of slats prior to putting on my cub I reviewed hours and hours of Handley page information and studies. I believe in my reading H.P. slots did contribute to surface area and wing load...however they also contributed to increases drag...Page first tried slots on the
    H.P. 17. around 1917. In 1919 Page developed the H.P. 20, which were fitted with what he first called controllable slots, and later became know as slats Slots and slats do increase lift coefficient when deployed in takeoff or landing configurations at high angle of attacks.

    As as usual I could be completely wrong, but feel pretty confident my slats, the carbon fiber version would rip off if they were a significant factor in surface area for wing loading purposes.

    Fun discussion...for what it’s worth on the original topic, I am a cub guy, but have been intrigued by the numbers of small STOL type aircraft. I feel they are WAY overpriced, but pretty neat planes...on that note I feel many cubs a way overpriced as well.

    Respectfully,
    Think TOP of the wing. My Back Country slats move the LE forward approx 7". The LE to aft aileron edge is 74" and they're extended in length. They're huge compared to stock wings. Longer, deeper, and the slats energize the flow on top of the wing. Triple whammy!

  13. #93
    Southern Aero's Avatar
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    Coming soon ...…………………… WIP passive slat based on Piper style construction with 31" spar centers

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    ......... It doesn't cost any more to go first class! You just can't stay as long.
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  14. #94
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    Quote Originally Posted by Southern Aero View Post
    Coming soon ...…………………… WIP passive slat based on Piper style construction with 31" spar centers

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    That looks very interesting. I assume based upon the Helio design? I like the idea of being totally retracted creating no drag in cruise conditions. What is your plan for the ailerons, flaps and wing span? It looks as though you also have a considerable gross weight beef up as well.
    N1PA

  15. #95
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    Sky

    I guess I put this in the wrong place but the discusion turned to slats/slots .................... I'll probly get spanked. This particular wing is 165" spar, short wing, extended slightly but going on an extended fuselage. …… has already been referred to as a "bastard", I've heard. ………….. might be its new name! Also building another wing with the "standard" 17' spar. Helio was the inspiration, obviously, but I have never seen this done to a rag wing so had to do it. ……………...…… been a challenge. Larger chord flaps and ailerons with ailerons moved outboard to tip. Spoilers too, for low speed roll control and plus descent rate.
    ......... It doesn't cost any more to go first class! You just can't stay as long.
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  16. #96
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    Quote Originally Posted by courierguy View Post
    Wow, ya got a lot going on there flyrite! Viva la experimental!

    I know Bruce of Back Country Cubs has slats on the Rans S-7 he uses as a coyote getter, and I heard that he had tried them earlier, but with the stock Rotax 912S they for some reason could not reach their full potential. Then he had the engine hot rodded and had enough "extra" power to make them work real well. Which got me thinking, I get in pretty darn short right now and don't want or need to get in so short I can't get out, so what the ratio is between getting you in.
    Tom, What I can tell you from putting 1000 hours on my wing before them to a little over 1000 since adding them.....They add a small amount of wing area which is a noticeable seat of the pants improvement in carrying the same weight (lower wing loading) !
    Also As Stewart said, They make the wing more effective at ALL angles of attack which is another VERY noticeable improvement by any pilot with a lot of time in the mount there added to!
    These two improvements made the wing so docile at slow speed at any bank angle or angle of attack that my low altitude playing is off the charts . It definitely made my approach’s slower. I can hang it on the slats at high alpha to show off, But don’t do it to get in short. I’m all about performance and balancing the airframe improvements to the negatives (weight added) Slats are right there with flaps in priority!
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  17. #97
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    Quote Originally Posted by Southern Aero View Post
    Sky
    Spoilers too, for low speed roll control and plus descent rate.
    Got any photos or drawings of how your going to incorporate the spoilers, Would love to see them?

  18. #98
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    Quote Originally Posted by flyrite View Post
    Got any photos or drawings of how your going to incorporate the spoilers, Would love to see them?
    Quote Originally Posted by Southern Aero View Post
    Spoilers too, for low speed roll control and plus descent rate.
    That sounds as though it could be a rather complicated mechanism with both functions.
    N1PA

  19. #99
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    Quote Originally Posted by flyrite View Post
    Got any photos or drawings of how your going to incorporate the spoilers, Would love to see them?
    They will be on stand-offs or pylons on the backside of the front spar holding a bearing/bushing for a torque shaft running behind the spar near the top. Will get some pics up when I get then in place.


    sky....... yep, will be some "trickery" going on behind the front spar..........
    Last edited by Southern Aero; 09-12-2019 at 11:06 PM.
    ......... It doesn't cost any more to go first class! You just can't stay as long.
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  20. #100

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    I sure know the mechanism I have drawn up for the spoilers going in my plane have a fair bit of trickery involved. Nothing is near being fabricated yet so lord knows they will all get more complex but sometimes less so.

  21. #101
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    Southern Aero; CharlieN--I'm sitting over in the corner watching intently while I still try to work out geometry for simple differential ailerons....

    I really like your ideas.

    Vic

  22. #102
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    Vic

    With that high lift wing just go with Friese type ailerons and no differential......................
    ......... It doesn't cost any more to go first class! You just can't stay as long.
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  23. #103

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    Quote Originally Posted by Southern Aero View Post
    Vic

    With that high lift wing just go with Friese type ailerons and no differential......................
    There is some good logic in that, once I am done with the B-17 tour I am hosting a week form now I will sketch what the bellcrank for the differential motion, once it clicks it is logical.
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  24. #104
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    I will sketch what the bellcrank for the differential motion
    Piper already did that, at least in the -12 However, I'll say that the 12 has plenty of adverse yaw, so no doubt can be improved upon.
    Gordon

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