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Thread: SuperStol VS Supercub Pros/Cons...Im looking to buy

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    SuperStol VS Supercub Pros/Cons...Im looking to buy

    Anyone owned/flown both? Heard some Cub pilots that tried a Superstols got rid of their Superstols...hope they can chime in on why. I only have 3 hrs in a 160 hp stock cub, and been in a couple flights in a Superstol(not near where i live), and trying to decide which to buy. Looking at the Rotax Edge 156 hp in a Superstol, this would shine at small high altitude lakes above tree line i think, I would have it on and off wheels/floats each year, cheaper on fuel, fuel injection(no carb ice), i like the idea of folding wings in case in the future i cant rent a hanger(but apparently wings must be no more than 1/2 full), like the idea of being able to haul on trailer if needed, cheaper maintenance and the ability to do work on it myself, Cons would be a Super Cub flies much nicer, Cub would be tougher, lots of Cub parts/mods around, Cub more proven, Cub more payload, Cub better re sale value. I backpack hunt sheep and mostly Solo...if i have to make a second trip to get a friend out or in i wouldn't care. As long as i can get in and out as short as a Cub Solo on wheels or floats and save some money in the long run that would be my goal. Im a Private pilot. Ive been passenger in a Helio lots while guiding and Cubs too, but ive been a passenger more in a Helio...so i know the sensation of slats moving around and making noise.
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    hottshot's Avatar
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    I have both at the moment give me a call and I can answer what ever you would like to know.
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    Excellent that’s exactly what I was hoping for, what’s your #?...I’ll call after I finish dinner

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    hottshot's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Backpacker View Post
    Excellent that’s exactly what I was hoping for, what’s your #?...I’ll call after I finish dinner
    541-263-2968 I'm at work for another hour or so ...😭

    I'm in Oregon

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    Another thing to consider is cold weather flying. Most of the newer small stuff I have looked at do not have much for heat and are not built tight enough for cold weather flying. Also you will need tailwheel steering if on skis. The bottom line is it is all about the mission.
    DENNY
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    Its extremely easy to tie into the liquid cooling system and run it through a heater core, and have a small 12V fan blowing through it, i did that in my drafty Chinook Ultra light, and i also have heat from the exhaust heat muff, -20C is totally fine, i did try to close as much of the larger air leaks.
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    Steve Pierce's Avatar
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    Have you got much time flying the Super STOL Wup? I knew you were selling one for someone. Why not share your experiences here rather than in private?
    Steve Pierce

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    If flying is a recreational motor sport to you the Highlander might be a good choice. The Yamaha Apex motor is gaining popularity. Toy airplanes are all the rage in some circles. Just big enough for the pilot and a camera for him to take pictures of himself. I guess it's all about what a guy wants. It would be fun to fly.
    Last edited by stewartb; 08-26-2019 at 08:03 AM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Backpacker View Post
    Its extremely easy to tie into the liquid cooling system and run it through a heater core, and have a small 12V fan blowing through it, i did that in my drafty Chinook Ultra light, and i also have heat from the exhaust heat muff, -20C is totally fine, I did try to close as much of the larger air leaks.
    One advantage of a liquid cooled engine for winter ops, is with a divertor valve in the radiator line, cockpit controlled, I can bypass the radiator and pipe all the coolant through my under panel heat exchanger/fan. This is in addition to the muffler heat source. But besides the extra BTU's, the big advantage of this is more control over the engine temps:quicker warm ups and less over cooling when faced with a big descent. I utilize this plus a movable cockpit controlled shutter over my oil cooler, as my winter ops involve a lot of throttled back descents due to the big ridge lines in my area.

    Kind of a snarky comment stewartb, but this is after all a Super Cub site, and the OP's subject matter is just asking for it! All I know about the Super Stol is that they are heavy (800 plus? heavy for an LSA type) slow/draggy, but land short. My own S-7S gives great performance, when loaded with full camping gear, my 55 pound folding electric mountain bike, and 8 hours (at least) of fuel, and me. And landings (and takeoffs) are still super short when loaded this way and we're talking 7- to 10K elevations, when it's hot. All with sub 3.5 GPH low octane auto fuel. 2500 hours and going strong. Nothing like a SC for load carrying, granted, but for sure more capable then some may know. I'll gladly take the label of "toy" airplane, as in lots of fun, and I'm not interested in packing a fat friend and his 1/4 moose along anyway.
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    The truth isn't snarky. The play toy segment of aviation is new and growing. If that's what you like? Go for it. When comparing a Super Stol to a Supercub? It's not apples to apples. It'd be like taking an upholstery hammer to a framing job. There are a lot of Supercubs being used as toys, too.

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    flyrite's Avatar
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    Hell Tom, were you to have the money tied up in your Cub knockoff that some do in their knockoffs(although I’m amazed at the $ some knockoffs are bringing)....you’d be look’n to Down play the so called Toys to! In the acro community, It’s what we call “A case of Pet*r Envy”. Guys with the high $ toys (and lets be honest that’s all 90% of cubs are for the owners) are always protective of their investment, Ego demands it!
    Your right though bout this being a Cub site, But seems to me that all the new mounts are ALL KNOCKOFFS! Whether it’s a Backcountry or Legend or Rans or Highlander or etc,etc....They all are trying to replicate Mr Pipers Brilliance!
    Besides were you to look at any metric of comparisons, Pound for pound , HP to HP ,The new knockoffs out perform the legacy mounts in most .
    I’ll put my throw away mount against ANY with 90HP , In load carry, Stol performance, I do give up bout 10 mph in cruising, and as hard as I try , I still can’t convince nobody I’m a knockoff!
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    hottshot's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Steve Pierce View Post
    Have you got much time flying the Super STOL Wup? I knew you were selling one for someone. Why not share your experiences here rather than in private?
    Will do, was working last night but will gladly share. Info coming shortly.. stay tuned for more
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    A friend flew Steve Henry's Apex powered Highlander a few weeks ago. He said it was impressive.
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    I've only been flying since 1957 and I can assure you that every plane that I have flown could be considered a toy, whether I was paying or I was being paid to fly it. It didn't matter whether it was a Pitts special or a Boeing 777, they are all toys. Now back to the original question.
    N1PA
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    Quote Originally Posted by Backpacker View Post
    Anyone owned/flown both? Heard some Cub pilots that tried a Superstols got rid of their Superstols...hope they can chime in on why. I only have 3 hrs in a 160 hp stock cub, and been in a couple flights in a Superstol(not near where i live), and trying to decide which to buy. Looking at the Rotax Edge 156 hp in a Superstol, this would shine at small high altitude lakes above tree line i think, I would have it on and off wheels/floats each year, cheaper on fuel, fuel injection(no carb ice), i like the idea of folding wings in case in the future i cant rent a hanger(but apparently wings must be no more than 1/2 full), like the idea of being able to haul on trailer if needed, cheaper maintenance and the ability to do work on it myself, Cons would be a Super Cub flies much nicer, Cub would be tougher, lots of Cub parts/mods around, Cub more proven, Cub more payload, Cub better re sale value. I backpack hunt sheep and mostly Solo...if i have to make a second trip to get a friend out or in i wouldn't care. As long as i can get in and out as short as a Cub Solo on wheels or floats and save some money in the long run that would be my goal. Im a Private pilot. Ive been passenger in a Helio lots while guiding and Cubs too, but ive been a passenger more in a Helio...so i know the sensation of slats moving around and making noise.

    https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=6WzzVBBje8I&t=410s
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    When you say "diverter valve" did you mean thermostat?...i have a thermostat on my Chinook that i ordered online from the UK and works great. If yo have a link to that valve that would be great, i saw pics before of what i think you mean but never found where to buy one??? I dont care about any comments snarky or not...everyone is entitled to their opinion...and the header i put this under is "everything else" and "discussion about all kinds of other airplanes" If money was no object i would buy both and test both with same loads video it and document it.
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    Quote Originally Posted by courierguy View Post
    One advantage of a liquid cooled engine for winter ops, is with a divertor valve in the radiator line, cockpit controlled, I can bypass the radiator and pipe all the coolant through my under panel heat exchanger/fan. This is in addition to the muffler heat source. But besides the extra BTU's, the big advantage of this is more control over the engine temps:quicker warm ups and less over cooling when faced with a big descent. I utilize this plus a movable cockpit controlled shutter over my oil cooler, as my winter ops involve a lot of throttled back descents due to the big ridge lines in my area.

    Kind of a snarky comment stewartb, but this is after all a Super Cub site, and the OP's subject matter is just asking for it! All I know about the Super Stol is that they are heavy (800 plus? heavy for an LSA type) slow/draggy, but land short. My own S-7S gives great performance, when loaded with full camping gear, my 55 pound folding electric mountain bike, and 8 hours (at least) of fuel, and me. And landings (and takeoffs) are still super short when loaded this way and we're talking 7- to 10K elevations, when it's hot. All with sub 3.5 GPH low octane auto fuel. 2500 hours and going strong. Nothing like a SC for load carrying, granted, but for sure more capable then some may know. I'll gladly take the label of "toy" airplane, as in lots of fun, and I'm not interested in packing a fat friend and his 1/4 moose along anyway.

    When you say "diverter valve" did you mean thermostat?...i have a thermostat on my Chinook that i ordered online from the UK and works great. If yo have a link to that valve that would be great, i saw pics before of what i think you mean but never found where to buy one??? I dont care about any comments snarky or not...everyone is entitled to their opinion...and the header i put this under is "everything else" and "discussion about all kinds of other airplanes" If money was no object i would buy both and test both with same loads video it and document it.

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    It's a hand machined,one off, valve, and they only made a few! No more.....
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    Quote Originally Posted by courierguy View Post
    It's a hand machined,one off, valve, and they only made a few! No more.....
    I think the one i saw a pic of before looked like copper. Do you have a pic of it(even an installed pic? Any trouble with a leak around it ?

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    All cnc machined aluminum, no leaks at all, ever! I did struggle with the concept of more fittings/complexity/stuff to go wrong, versus it's benefit, but in 12 years it's all good. Single digits temps in the leaky S7 and just a light jacket= cozy. Biggest benefit though is keeping engine cozy, once below135 or so oil temp, carb ice can happen if you're not alert to it on short final when you go to idle. Guess how I know?
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    Quote Originally Posted by courierguy View Post
    All cnc machined aluminum, no leaks at all, ever! I did struggle with the concept of more fittings/complexity/stuff to go wrong, versus it's benefit, but in 12 years it's all good. Single digits temps in the leaky S7 and just a light jacket= cozy. Biggest benefit though is keeping engine cozy, once below135 or so oil temp, carb ice can happen if you're not alert to it on short final when you go to idle. Guess how I know?
    If you have a pic of it that would be excellent. Yes carb ice, that's why I'm looking at the fuel inj.

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    hotrod180's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by stewartb View Post
    If flying is a recreational motor sport to you the Highlander might be a good choice..... Toy airplanes are all the rage in some circles. Just big enough for the pilot and a camera for him to take pictures of himself. ....
    A superstol is a toy to a supercub owner,
    a supercub is a toy to a skywagon owner,
    a skywagon is a toy to a beaver owner,
    a beaver is a toy to a Twin Otter owner,
    etc etc.
    Cessna Skywagon-- accept no substitute!

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    Backpacker, to my "toy" comment. A neighbor has a SuperStol parked next to his hangar. I look at it a couple of times a day as I walk the dog. I watch it with curiosity every time it starts up. It's an interesting machine. At a glance it appears more fragile than a standard Cub. Tubes are small. Structures are minimal. It's a simple, lightweight, very small airplane. How it fares with actual use in an off airport environment? Time will tell. I view standard Supercubs similarly, for what that's worth. For what you say you want to do and in the locale you want to do it? Strong advantage for a Supercub, both in utility and parts availability.
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    flyrite's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by hotrod180 View Post
    A superstol is a toy to a supercub owner,
    a supercub is a toy to a skywagon owner,
    a skywagon is a toy to a beaver owner,
    a beaver is a toy to a Twin Otter owner,
    etc etc.

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    Of course the structure is lighter/smaller diameter, the gross weight is less. Appropriate size for the gross. Cub structure looks wimpy to a Beaver pilot I'm guessing!
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    Dave Calkins's Avatar
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    I hope HOTSHOT posts his thoughts here. Am thinking of a “toy” next to my Skywagon. am trying to decide to build one of my Cub frames up, or a 4 place Cub, or a Courier, or such.

    the Garrett Otter I fly for a living will smoke your toys, by the way, but I can’t own one on my wages. d
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    flyrite's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by courierguy View Post
    Of course the structure is lighter/smaller diameter, the gross weight is less. Appropriate size for the gross. Cub structure looks wimpy to a Beaver pilot I'm guessing!
    Have thousands of hours in the lite stuff(ultralights, And such) most all of which were aluminum pop riveted together. Generally you repalaced the fabric and repair what YOU broke . If ya didn’t hit nothing with them they lasted and lasted and lasted!
    Many of the designers originals are still flying. My experience is that most pilots who have no experience with the lite stuff are pleasantly surprised when they bypass the common fables propagated by people who really don’t know what they don’t know.
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  28. #28
    wireweinie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by hotrod180 View Post
    A superstol is a toy to a supercub owner,
    a supercub is a toy to a skywagon owner,
    a skywagon is a toy to a beaver owner,
    a beaver is a toy to a Twin Otter owner,
    etc etc.
    They're all toys to the mechanic.

    Web
    Life's tough . . . wear a cup.

  29. #29
    wireweinie's Avatar
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    I'd like to hear more about the engine choices for these small aircraft. 2 stroke vs 4 stroke. Ignition and charging systems. Cooling systems. Etc.

    Web
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    Rotax is always in the mix. Viking is converting Honda car engines and some guys are loving it. Yamaha Apex snowgo engines are the hot topic with the Highlander crowd. The Apex is a great motor. My fat track uses that motor and it's smooth as silk with plenty of power. They sure sound different than what we're used to.
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    Dave Calkins's Avatar
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    boosted Apex a cool idea
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dave Calkins View Post
    boosted Apex a cool idea
    https://www.wildwestaircraft.com/firewall-forward-kit/
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    I thought about buying a Highlander, which of course is not a Super Stol, but similar.

    Cons: Didn't like sitting side by side. If you sit in the left seat you fly with your left hand, and I'm right handed. Of course nothing says you have to sit in the left seat. Smaller than the Cub. My son and I both weigh around 225 and thought we would be uncomfortable sitting next to each other for any length of time. Not all mechanics are familiar with the Rotax engine. Other engines are available of course, including a 180 HP Continental. Resale value.

    Pros: 4 gallons per hour on the Rotax.

    Just my 2 cents worth...
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  34. #34

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    Wish I weighed 225. Ask any flight instructor, you.get used to flying with either harnd real quick.
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    Flew Boeings with my left hand. Just prefer flying sticks with my right. To each his own...
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    I would ask myself (if I was you backpacker) while Steve Henry flies a Highlander (though with lots of mods) and not it's variant, the SuperStol. I mean he's doing the STOl drag thing, and hits many of the STOL contests, but not in a SuperStol. Just a separate comment from the entire Cub V. SS thing. He knows the breed better then anyone on the planet.

    No pictures of the radiator divertor valve, yet, as I'd have to take off the upper and lower cowls, pm me and I'll send you one next oil change, in a couple weeks or so.
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  37. #37
    RVBottomly's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JWE View Post
    Flew Boeings with my left hand. Just prefer flying sticks with my right. To each his own...
    A guy could put one stick in the middle like Paul Claus's four place supercub (or the Zenith CH 750). Then the left seater could use his right hand. Simpler setup because you don't need to link two sticks.
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  38. #38
    Steve Pierce's Avatar
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    Having picked up a few wrecks I like the Super Cub structure vs my experience with the lighter structures. I know they fly great but I will compromise and keep my Super Cub.
    Steve Pierce

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    Quote Originally Posted by RVBottomly View Post
    A guy could put one stick in the middle like Paul Claus's four place supercub (or the Zenith CH 750). Then the left seater could use his right hand. Simpler setup because you don't need to link two sticks.
    One stick, one throttle, and one set of rudder pedals-- all on left side.
    Are dual controls really necessary, esp on something like this?
    Cessna Skywagon-- accept no substitute!
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  40. #40
    Flying Dave's Avatar
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    MTV will love this.....

    Just buy a Husky....



    (Runs and hides to watch the fireworks)
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