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Thread: Garmin G5

  1. #1
    RaisedByWolves's Avatar
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    Garmin G5

    Had someone ask me a question. Can you put the exp version of the g5 in a certified pa-18? It’s not ifr, and didn’t come with one stock and isn’t required equipment. What do you guys think?


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  2. #2
    wireweinie's Avatar
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    Normally I'd be the first to say yes, lol. But since there is a blessed off version, I'm guessing that you might get some pushback from a fed, if the notice. Talk to your IA and see if he's cool with doing your annual if you install the exp version.

    Web
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  3. #3
    behindpropellers's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by wireweinie View Post
    Normally I'd be the first to say yes, lol. But since there is a blessed off version, I'm guessing that you might get some pushback from a fed, if the notice. Talk to your IA and see if he's cool with doing your annual if you install the exp version.

    Web
    Yeah Tom...just look in the mirror and ask your IA....

    My dad has an experimental one as backup in his airplane, for reference.

    Tim
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    Take it out at annual. Put it back in after.
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  5. #5
    skywagon8a's Avatar
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    I would say yes since the PA-18 is not going to be used for planned IFR. The G-5 would only be an extra going along for the ride adding to the empty weight.
    N1PA
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    I bought one of these, about same $ as a exp g5, but is leaps ahead of it in capability, synthetic vision, can provide an ILS type synthetic approach (flight director or fly through boxes) to any runway in its navigation database, and grass strips are in it, thats another advantage over the g5, this can navigate with and g5 cant. This is approved in your certified plane, GRT Mini GA https://www.aircraftspruce.com/catal...is11-14250.php


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    They've had $100. off Oshosh discounts in past www.grtavionics.com
    Last edited by supercub1999; 07-25-2019 at 08:35 AM.

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    Garmin G5

    A GDL50, a Garmin Pilot subscription, and a smart phone you likely already have in your pocket is a better solution for most guys. Or use an iPad mini if you want a bigger screen.Click image for larger version. 

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    Last edited by stewartb; 07-25-2019 at 09:03 AM.

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    I think its nice to not have to fiddle with phones or tablets, my grt mini is always in the panal and hardwired to the plane which means no charging. Jump in press direct to and go. Takes about 30 seconds to fire up and ready to fly. And when SHTF I have a solid screwed to the panel stand alone AHRS that doesn't require wifi, just push a couple buttons and I am set up with a gps derived (not faa approved but has always been spot on when I tested it) precision approach type guidance to my home grass strip or any airport in its database.
    Last edited by supercub1999; 07-25-2019 at 09:56 AM.
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  10. #10

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    If I initiate GP on my iPhone, which would already be on, the GP screen takes 3 seconds to open and populate. No fiddling required.

    My favorite mount is a Nato Mount and with an iPhone 8 or newer (those with glass backs) Nato makes a magnetic holder with wireless charging. My battery life doesn't warrant the wireless charging but if it did? Easy solution.

  11. #11
    hotrod180's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by RaisedByWolves View Post
    Had someone ask me a question. Can you put the exp version of the g5 in a certified pa-18? It’s not ifr, and didn’t come with one stock and isn’t required equipment. What do you guys think?
    I installed a pre-STC G5 in my C180 with this FAA policy as the basis of approval:

    https://www.seaerospace.com/documents/FAA_vacuum_replacement.pdf

    Two different inspectors at the local FSDO were asked about this, and neither had a problem with it.
    One did say that the $150 back-up battery was required. so I included one.
    Cessna Skywagon-- accept no substitute!
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  12. #12
    wireweinie's Avatar
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    Exactly the point I was trying to make; "I installed a pre-STC G5 in my C180 with this FAA policy as the basis of approval:" Pre STC.

    If you get push back it will be because there is an 'approved' version available now. If you're cool with the experimental version, then fly it and let us know what you think of it.

    Web
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    On that GRT - how does it know "heading?" Does it have an inertial platform? A wind readout? Cost?

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    Garmin G5

    Sipping a Woodford rocks in the back of an airliner with my iPhone. Pretty cool tech to have in my pocket. Or my plane.

    Click image for larger version. 

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    Last edited by stewartb; 07-25-2019 at 11:18 PM.

  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by wireweinie View Post
    Exactly the point I was trying to make; "I installed a pre-STC G5 in my C180 with this FAA policy as the basis of approval:" Pre STC. ...
    I disagree.
    A field approval will often be denied, if an STC is available for the same item or mod.
    However, we're not talking about a field approval--
    this is an installation in accordance with an official, published FAA policy.
    Whether an STC'd version of the G5 is available now or not,
    IMHO installing a non-STC'd (ala "experimental") G5 as a minor alteration with just a logbook entry is still 100% legit.
    Cessna Skywagon-- accept no substitute!

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    Quote Originally Posted by bob turner View Post
    On that GRT - how does it know "heading?" Does it have an inertial platform? A wind readout? Cost?
    www.grtavionics.com/

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    $1500 and it knows heading and wind. I am blown away. It says AHRS, so that must include an inertial platform. This would have been a million bucks a quarter century ago.

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    Quote Originally Posted by stewartb View Post
    Sipping a Woodford rocks in the back of an airliner with my iPhone. Pretty cool tech to have in my pocket. Or my plane.

    Click image for larger version. 

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    You fly a better airline than I do if they serve Woodford... Reserve is amazing!
    Remember, These are the Good old Days!

  19. #19

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    The GRT Mini alone will display the aircraft's Track but no heading. It needs a compass input from a remote magnetometer for the mag heading ($260) and then it will display heading and provide current wind information.

    GRT talks about a $300 heads up display too that uses an automotive Heads up display called the Hudly to display some really advanced stuff if thats your thing.

  20. #20
    SJ's Avatar
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    So, this (link) implies that the GRT- MINI GA can be used in certified aircraft as a backup. Since there is no primary AI, etc in the normal super cub, could you still do it under the terms they describe?

    sj
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  21. #21
    wireweinie's Avatar
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    As long as the instrumentation required by the type certificate is installed, anything else is just fun stuff. Mark it 'for reference only' if you need too. Legal as long as you're not claiming IFR capable or other craziness.

    Web
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  22. #22
    SJ's Avatar
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    Sweet...

    Sent from my Pixel using SuperCub.Org mobile app
    "Often Mistaken, but Never in Doubt"
    ------------------------------------------

  23. #23
    C130jake's Avatar
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    That's what we did in our PA12Click image for larger version. 

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  24. #24

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    Quote Originally Posted by SJ View Post
    So, the GRT- MINI GA can be used in certified aircraft as a backup. Since there is no primary AI, etc in the normal super cub, could you still do it under the terms they describe?

    sj
    The GRT mini is approved for install in certified a/c via PS-ACE-23-01-R1
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  25. #25
    wireweinie's Avatar
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    Gesundheit

    Web
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  26. #26
    wireweinie's Avatar
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    You don't have to justify the install. 'They' have to justify that you can't.

    Web
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  27. #27
    SJ's Avatar
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    Am I missing something or does the GRT not have a battery backup - nice feature of the G5..

    sj
    "Often Mistaken, but Never in Doubt"
    ------------------------------------------

  28. #28
    wireweinie's Avatar
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    Internal battery backup is listed as an option 'for all MINI models'. On the link that you posted, click on 'Options'

    Web
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    Quote Originally Posted by skywagon8a View Post
    I would say yes since the PA-18 is not going to be used for planned IFR. .
    I was not around at the time, but there is an old archived thread here that debated whether a suitably equipped PA-18 can be used for IMC flight. Lots of FARs were quoted. My conclusion after reading that thread is that the PA-18 indeed can be used in IMC if it has the right instruments. Even though it was never specifically certificated for either VMC day/night or IMC day/night in the old days. There have been a plane or two whose owners specifically went after and got IFR certification.

  31. #31

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    Believe if one has say a turn and bank cub equipped from factory, then one can only replace turn and bank with TSO unit. Cannot use experimental stuff to replace any factory equipped instruments with non TSO ones, per my IA. If you keep all then the experimental is ok, but then why do it?
    John

  32. #32
    wireweinie's Avatar
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    Has nothing to do with factory install or not. 'Required equipment' refers to that which is required by the type certificate.

    The FARs and CARs set out what engine and flight instruments meet MINIMUM standards, i.e. piston engines are required to have a tach, oil pressure indicator, and oil temp indicator. All aircraft are required to have an airspeed and altimeter. Some type certificates specifically call this out and some may not. Anything required, above these minimums will be called out in the type certificate for EITHER the engine or airframe. A good example is a Cessna 185. In addition to the minimum instrumentation called out by CAR 3, a vertical speed indicator is required and since it has a constant speed prop, a manifold pressure indicator is required. And if you look at the type certificate for the continental 520, a single point CHT is required.

    If you wanted to REPLACE any of these instruments, a 'certified primary' instrument is required. Think of the CGR-30P and the JPI 900 series instruments. All engine instruments in one package and certified primary. Problems arise with some of the older styles like the JPI 700 series as not all of the systems in the unit were certified. I've seen them installed in Cessnas, replacing the CHT gauge, and the manual states that the CHT system is not certified primary in that unit. So that unit is not legal for that aircraft unless a certified primary CHT is also installed.

    On the flight instrument side, a good example is a vertical speed indicator in a Cub. It was never required to be installed as it is not listed as required equipment in the type certificate. If the owner wants one installed it does not need to be 'certified primary'.

    The rule is, to REPLACE a required instrument, a certified primary instrument is needed. To ADD an instrument, above what's required, does not require a certified primary unit.

    Web
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  33. #33

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    And while we’re at it, what really is “certified”? Any of you guys with Cessna (ARC) radios ever look at the data tags on them? No TSO on the great majority of them yet you are legal to fly IFR. I suspect many of the flight instruments in Cessnas and Pipers from the ‘60s and 70s were delivered with non TSO instruments. That’s because much of that stuff was “certified” on at least one TC and that certification carried over to other installations. It all comes down to the certification basis, and the operating rules. If the Cert basis doesn’t specify a TSO item, then all you need to do is show compliance to the Cert basis and you are good to go. It gets back to the Major/Minor question. If it is a minor alteration, you only need acceptable data, and a log book entry. If it is Major, then you need Approved Data, and that can come in many forms. The problem I see is way to many times someone calls a minor alteration a major and gets tied up trying to find approved data when kits not needed. Use the flow chart in AC43-210a, and document the decisions.


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  34. #34
    SJ's Avatar
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    Web, excellent explanation that even I can understand! Thanks!

    sj
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  36. #36
    wireweinie's Avatar
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    Ugh. The list of non TSOd avionics is miles long. The big manufactures have gone around that by STCing everything now.

    Web
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