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Thread: Javron Cub Building for Dummies

  1. #41
    Steve Pierce's Avatar
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    Whoever wrote up the website is not totally informed with information on the original Piper Super Cub. .035" wall engine mount tubes? There was another but I can't remember. I like to install the engine and route controls, hoses and wires like Piper did. Unhook the tach and swing the engine. Takes me a couple of minutes and then I can easily pull a mag off. See many Super Cub rebuilds where this consideration is not made and it makes maintaining more time consuming.
    Steve Pierce

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    Will Rogers
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  2. #42
    Steve Pierce's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by RaisedByWolves View Post
    Steve. It’s a new airplane. You’ll never have to swing the engine. especially if it has slick mags.


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    I remember that well. Primer lines, oil pressure, engine controls, wiring. PITA
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    Steve Pierce

    Everybody is ignorant, only on different subjects.
    Will Rogers
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  3. #43
    RaisedByWolves's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Steve Pierce View Post
    I remember that well. Primer lines, oil pressure, engine controls, wiring. PITA
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    At least it only had a hundred hours on it. I remember telling you man it will suck to swing the mount. Had the pleasure of working on mags on a husky. Now that’s fun.


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  4. #44
    pittsdriver's Avatar
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    The Vetterman exhaust doesn't have the heat muff in back of the engine like the stock Cub so it really opens it up.
    Vans RV7 finished 2008
    Backcountry Super Cub finished 2011
    A&P Aircraft rebuilding, Building assistance
    1956 Supercub complete rebuild

  5. #45
    Steve Pierce's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by pittsdriver View Post
    The Vetterman exhaust doesn't have the heat muff in back of the engine like the stock Cub so it really opens it up.
    So does the Sutton. It isn't that hard to route things like Piper did so you can swing it to pull a mag. Pays dividends the first time you have to do it but I mainly work on certified stuff and prefer to do it like the manufacturer did. I figure they built like 10,000 of these things, they kinda figured out what they were doing. Every time I change or modify something I have to think 3 steps ahead and a lot of times it bites me in the ass anyway.
    Steve Pierce

    Everybody is ignorant, only on different subjects.
    Will Rogers

  6. #46
    RaisedByWolves's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Steve Pierce View Post
    So does the Sutton. It isn't that hard to route things like Piper did so you can swing it to pull a mag. Pays dividends the first time you have to do it but I mainly work on certified stuff and prefer to do it like the manufacturer did. I figure they built like 10,000 of these things, they kinda figured out what they were doing. Every time I change or modify something I have to think 3 steps ahead and a lot of times it bites me in the ass anyway.
    But it’s a new airplane. You won’t have to swing the engine


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  7. #47

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    Metal Headliner

    Metal Headliner

    Apologies in advance, this post is a little like War and Peace.

    I went with the metal headliner when I ordered my kit. This step was fairly intimidating to me since there were a lot of surfaces involved that all needed to work together. It all worked out in the end. But I will say that I would be much better at it a second time through!

    In the Javron kit, you will receive 7 pieces that make up the headliner: 1) a large piece that becomes the top/back, 2) two side pieces roughly cut for the D-windows, 3) two window channel pieces that will connect the sides to the D-windows; and 4) two top front pieces.
    The first thing I did was go to my local art supply store and buy some poster board to re-create the top/back piece. This is not a necessary step but it allowed me to mess around with things to get a sense of how everything would fit together. It made my subsequent conversation with Jay much more informative.

    In talking with Jay, we discussed the basic process as follows (I’ll go into more detail on each item):

    • Bend top/back piece
    • Match drill holes from top/back piece onto side pieces and cleco together
    • Insert D-window channel pieces into channels
    • Position “box” in fuselage and temporarily secure it
    • Mark, on side pieces, where holes in channel pieces hit (those holes you can access), and scribe channel piece edge onto side pieces
    • Remove everything
    • Drill holes that were marked above and, using scribe line, mark and drill remaining holes
    • Remove excess material on side panels so that D-window channels are flush
    • Dimple and flush rivet d-window channels to side pieces


    Here’s “the rest of the story”

    Bend top/back piece

    Here is a picture of the top view of the flat top/back piece. By the way, I know this is the top view because of the notches in the bottom corners which create a “tab”. That tab will be attached to the bottom of a horizontal member that supports the upper baggage shelf. The notches are different sizes because the tubing for the dogleg comes it at different angles – and the larger notch has to be on the right. Look at your fuselage and this should become clear.

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    From top to bottom of the picture: there are two “tabs” at the top which are intended to be bent back to give the front some stiffness. Jay mentioned to me that he believed the front was a little long on his CAD drawing for the standard width cub. I found this to be the case and bent them a little farther back…eventually.

    The hole is for the shoulder harness for the rear seat to pass through.

    Further down you will note that the sides flare out. The point at which the angles of the sides changes is where you will bend this piece to create a top and a back surface. I measured the angle of this bend, based on the side pieces, as 125* but don’t take my word for it!

    On the bottom of the piece, you will put in a couple of bends so that the very bottom tab essentially points straight back and attaches to the underside of a c-channel piece that supports the upper baggage compartment floor. I’ll refer to this part as the “tail” below.

    You will also need to put in a V-bend which starts at the center of the front piece and extends back to the sides at the point where the top bends to the back. This will help add stiffness to the top. It will also put a peak in the front which will maximize the head space for the rear seat passenger. Based on the front pieces that the top sits in, I estimated that the peak at the front would need to be about 10*. So each side of the “V” would be 5*. When bending later, I thought this looked like too little of a bend. So I bent it more…only to soften those bends later!

    Here is a picture of the underside with the top/back bend and “V” bends laid out.

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    I got access to a very nice bending brake and was able to make these bends. The only advice I can add is: 1) practice before you bend the good stuff, and 2) plan the bends in advance – seems like you want to go from the middle out (i.e. start with the top/back bend and work out from there). Also, you may want to delay on bending the front tabs up to confirm that the front of the top piece of the headliner terminates where you want it to.

    Match drill holes from top/back piece onto side pieces and cleco together

    The top/back piece is pre-drilled along the edges. Also, the side pieces came pre-bent along the top and back with little edges that overlap the top/back piece. I turned the top/back piece upside down and took one of the side pieces and matched it up to the top. I secured the two pieces with cleco clamps and match drilled the sides with the top with a 3/32nd bit. As I went along, I inserted clecos in the match drilled holes.

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    This was a somewhat tricky step because you have two odd-shaped pieces that don’t naturally sit in a state to facilitate the drilling. As such, its important to look at all sides continually to ensure the two pieces are mated properly. What may look fine from the inside may have actually migrated a bit when looking at it from the outside. At any rate, I repeated the process with the other side as well and soon had something resembling a headliner.

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    Insert D-window channel pieces into channels
    There are two pieces that go into the D-window channels. One already formed to the window is shown below. By making slight bends between each of the segments, they are easily formed into the shape of the window. Clothes pins are a great way to secure them. Now is a good time to make sure that the tabs which will rest against the side pieces are not bent too far inward.
    Also, keep in mind that the bottom front of each of the pieces will go under an interior panel piece on each side.

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    Position “box” in fuselage and temporarily secure it

    Now it’s time to put the big metal box inside the fuselage. Starting from the back, I slid the “tail” in between the top of the dogleg tubes. I then secured the top by tying a clothes pin with a string* to the top stringer and dropping it through the seatbelt hole in the top of the headliner then tightening it to where it was “about right”. (*In a pinch, I have heard that a daughter’s scrunchie can be used for this purpose.)

    Key learning for me: a number of times, you will need to get things to be “where they want to be”. I first learned this with fuel lines. We’re dealing with light materials and they can easily be “persuaded” to go just about anywhere we want to put them. But its much better to have a part that is in place in its natural state rather than under force to be there. This takes patience (for me!)

    Back to the headliner. It was helpful to me to visualize how the headliner is eventually secured. In the back, as previously mentioned, it is secured to the bottom of the c-channel the supports the upper baggage floor. On each side, it is secured to the D-windows but also secured to three tabs for interior panels (left side) and the channel above the large lower baggage door (right side). On the front, it is connected to the two overlapping front pieces. Those pieces, in turn, will be secured to the peaked channel that sits above the rear spar carry through. I used various clamps to temporarily secure the headliner at these different points.

    The other consideration is the fuel line from the rear of the right tank. It will bend around the metal headliner (if installed correctly!) but will be pretty close. Aside from that, once I got the headliner in, it didn’t come close to interfering with anything else. For instance, I wasn’t sure about the flap pulleys but they are not an issue.

    Once I had the “box” where I wanted it and temporarily secured, I drilled the holes in the “tail” and cleco’d it into position in the back. I also drilled the three holes on the left side where the headliner will be registered to the side tabs. Next, I marked where I needed to take a little off the right side so that it would rest in the channel above the lower baggage door.

    Finally, I marked six evenly spaced holes where the top piece meets the front pieces and drilled and cleco’d these.
    I removed the box for this and re-installed after taking some off the right side. It was now beginning to sit in place semi-permanently.

    Mark, on side pieces, where holes in channel pieces hit (those holes you can access), and scribe channel piece edge onto side pieces


    Now it was time to tackle the window channels. First, I made sure all the tabs on the window channel were sitting flush against the side piece of the headliner. Next, I drew a line to scribe exactly where the side channel piece hit the side of the metal headliner. Finally, for the tab holes that I could reach, I used a scratch awl to mark the position of the holes on the side pieces of the headliner.

    Remove everything. Drill holes that were marked above and, using scribe line, mark and drill remaining holes


    Then everything came out of the plane. (By the way, I put it in and took it out about 6-8 more times than I describe here). I center punched the holes I had marked, drilled them out with a #40 bit and inserted cleco’s. Then, by positioning the window channel piece using the reference line I drew, I was able to mark the position of the remaining holes and drilled, deburred, cleco’d these as well. Note: The top of the left piece should bend out slightly to match the window channel. Be sure to put a bend in the side piece before marking this hole.

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    Remove excess material on side panels so that D-window channels are flush


    Once all the holes were marked on the side piece, I removed the window channel piece and removed the excess aluminum material up to the scribe line. I did this with a few passes of the snips followed by lots of hand filing and sanding. Finally, I re-cleco’d the window channels on the side pieces to confirm that I didn’t have a “lip” and that the channel transitioned nicely to the side piece.

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    At this time, I also re-installed each of the side pieces (with the window channel cleco’d on) into the fuselage. One reason for doing this was to determine which of the side tabs needed to be cut down so that the now-static window channel piece could fit into the window channel. Once I cut down a few of the tabs, I found the easiest way to install them was to position the front of the bottom of the window piece in its place (next to the “nubs” for the cross tube) and then rock the piece back into place. I also, reinstalled the whole box at this time and marked, punched, drilled, deburred and cleco’d the tops of the front piece to the peaked channel above the rear spar carry through (those top holes are not shown in the picture below)

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    Dimple and flush rivet d-window channels to side pieces


    We’re almost there…Next, I dimpled the holes in both the side pieces and the window channel in anticipation of flush riveting. Due to the width of the channel piece, I could not use the rivet squeezer and borrowed a rivet gun to drive the flush rivets.

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    That’s about where I stand right now. I still need to install nutplates – I know that’s probably overkill but I don’t know enough to be 100% certain I won’t need to take this out again after I *think* its in for the last time. I will be covering this with fabric. Also, I need to work out the transition from the sides to the wing root panels and maybe put some nutplates there. Stay tuned…
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  8. #48

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    Excellent work!!! 1/3 or more of my flying involves stuffing the plane to the max with a lot of pointy and odd shaped stuff, having a metal headliner is well worth the effort if you plan on doing any kind of fun heavy/working flying with the plane. Now on soapbox. Everything in a cub should be made to install or remove with the fabric on!!!! This includes headliner/extended baggage/floor/pedals/brakes/dash/lights/cables/ect. Ya you can cut a hole and patch it then try to match 10 year old faded pant. Do it right the first time and any work after that will be simple.
    DENNY
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  9. #49
    Steve Pierce's Avatar
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    A friend brought his headliner over a few months ago and we had to call Jay to clarify where these bends went. Wasn't hard to do but cannot imagine having to figure all this stuff out without a manual. I have sent him numerous Piper drawings, service documents and the pictures from 5 Super Cub rebuilds. Kudos to all Javron builders to building something like this without a builders manual.
    Steve Pierce

    Everybody is ignorant, only on different subjects.
    Will Rogers
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  10. #50

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    Quote Originally Posted by DENNY View Post
    .....1/3 or more of my flying involves stuffing the plane to the max with a lot of pointy and odd shaped stuff.....
    DENNY
    First thing I thought of when you said pointy and odd
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    This is is more than likely what you were referring too...
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    I hope that if I put it on it’s nose the aluminum horse shoes and not the steel are what hits me in the head
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  11. #51

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    This is what happens when the 180 can't make it back to help fly out moose camp.
    DENNY
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Click image for larger version. 

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