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Thread: Fine Wire Plugs - How do you clean?

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    behindpropellers's Avatar
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    Fine Wire Plugs - How do you clean?

    Folks,

    If you run fine wire plugs, how do you clean them?

    Tim

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    Tim's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by behindpropellers View Post
    Folks,

    If you run fine wire plugs, how do you clean them?

    Tim
    You don't, every 500 hours replace them, $ 11 a piece

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    eleven bucks apiece, get me in.
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    Tim's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by tempdoug View Post
    eleven bucks apiece, get me in.
    Denso, IK27

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    Quote Originally Posted by behindpropellers View Post
    Folks,If you run fine wire plugs, how do you clean them?Tim
    soak in acetone for an hour, use dental pick, set gap good for 2000+ hr, on my 2nd engine with mine
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    Dave Calkins's Avatar
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    same as Bret said.

    except I use Hoppes 9 gun solvent and an hour in the ultrasonic cleaner

    Also, I do the resistance check.
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    Steve Pierce's Avatar
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    Sandblast them. Just kidding. I have never seen the need to clean them. I have a vibrating tool to clean out the lead balls but they don't accumulate much. I have a wire wheel on a bench grinder that I use to clean the threads on the cylinder end.
    Steve Pierce

    Everybody is ignorant, only on different subjects.
    Will Rogers

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    I was having lower plug problems - AEIO 360- I bit the bullet -$360 worth of fine wires. Changed everything - the entire personality of the airplane is different. Apparently you just fly them!

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    Steve Pierce's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tim View Post
    You don't, every 500 hours replace them, $ 11 a piece

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    Your getting ripped, I pay a little over $9 a piece.
    Steve Pierce

    Everybody is ignorant, only on different subjects.
    Will Rogers
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    are these the same as 38s? in length and reach and heat?

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    Ouch! Why did I spend so much? From Aircraft Spruce:



    Make Selection(s) Below To Order



    From $81.75 to $960.00





    (8) review this


    Package Quantity: Select Package Quantity:Single PlugBox of 12 Plugs
    Part Number


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    Quote Originally Posted by Tim View Post
    You don't, every 500 hours replace them, $ 11 a piece

    Sent from my Pixel 2 using SuperCub.Org mobile app
    Quote Originally Posted by Steve Pierce View Post
    Your getting ripped, I pay a little over $9 a piece.
    You're both getting ripped. $6.67
    https://www.rockauto.com/en/parts/de...park+plug,7212
    N1PA
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    Quote Originally Posted by tempdoug View Post
    are these the same as 38s? in length and reach and heat?
    No, these are a very good quality automotive plug. They essentially will last forever. They do not wear out, if they foul they burn clean very quickly, Might be possible bottom plugs could lead foul in low compression engines.
    These Denso Iridium plugs are superb engineering. The Denso plugs are far better than the other brands as well.
    These are a 14mm X ¾ reach such that they need thread adapters and the wires converted to automotive style. Not something for certified operations.

    One trait with these as well, they need very little power to generate a spark, much less than even aircraft fine wire plugs. The benefit here is considerably lower electric loads of all the rest of the ignition system, be this legacy magnetos of any of the modern era parts. This low voltage greatly reduces the chance for noise generated by the ignition system as well.
    To the best of my knowledge most every car produced in the past dozen years has some version of these plugs. At least every Furrin' engine I have been around. This is part of the mandated EPA 100,000 mile emissions requirement.
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    interesting, but i still like my bungee chords. 9 bucks a plug does catch your attention. guess ive seen this awhile back but have always wondered how it goes adapting the wires to the mag plate? because i would want my own lengths and then id probably need more one time use tools.

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    As stated above the plugs are available considerable less than that. Ebay, Rock auto, I think it was https://www.sparkplugs.com where I have bought many sets long ago. Not sure where their prices are at this time.
    The most recent set of 18MM adapters I bought in England from https://www.gsparkplug.com/ and were right about $32 USD including shipping for all 8 of them. In country they seem to be gold to the retailers.
    I have seen modified mag plates available, check on SDS injection site. Must be other places as well as reworking the originals. I have not done so but I expect it is straight forward.
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    Quote Originally Posted by CharlieN View Post
    As stated above the plugs are available considerable less than that. Ebay, Rock auto, I think it was https://www.sparkplugs.com where I have bought many sets long ago. Not sure where their prices are at this time.
    The most recent set of 18MM adapters I bought in England from https://www.gsparkplug.com/ and were right about $32 USD including shipping for all 8 of them. In country they seem to be gold to the retailers.
    I have seen modified mag plates available, check on SDS injection site. Must be other places as well as reworking the originals. I have not done so but I expect it is straight forward.
    G3 ignition, the guys name is Thomas. He'll give you instructions on how to convert the cap, or he'll do it. If he does it he'll send you cap and wires to what ever lenght you tell him

    http://g3ignition.com/magmod.html

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    Last edited by Tim; 06-16-2019 at 09:51 AM.

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    cool. 200 and some bucks for a harness set, not bad.

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    another way of skinning the cat.

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    I was going to get a roll of the G3 wire, but couldn’t figure out if it could be used with standard aircraft ferrules and connectors. It appeared to be the same as the red stuff that Champion used.

    G3 said no - so they must make their own adapter plates?

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    G3 is using MSD 8.5mm wire. If running any iridium sparkplugs and you are home brewing the harness there is no need for such a heavy jacket since the plugs fire at considerably lower voltage and current than legacy style plugs.
    What G3 offers will pretty much guarantee there is little to no radio noise.
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    Quote Originally Posted by CharlieN View Post
    No, these are a very good quality automotive plug. They essentially will last forever. They do not wear out, if they foul they burn clean very quickly, Might be possible bottom plugs could lead foul in low compression engines.
    Both Champion and Tempest fine wire plugs with definitely lead foul on the lower cylinders if you run rich at idle. I have 40 engines with them I work on and they always need cleaned. New engines come with massives, they last about 350-400 hours, then switch to fine wires, they last until engine is at TBO with the occasional failures. Champions usually always pass the resistance checks now- used to fail frequently. Vibrate the lead out, clean the threads, spray them out with solvent and occasionally grit blast them. Sometimes I have soaked them in Hoppes but haven't in over 2 years.
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    SJ's Avatar
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    First change I make to any airplane - put in fine wires.

    sj
    "Often Mistaken, but Never in Doubt"
    ------------------------------------------
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    Fine wire plugs

    I am surprised to hear you say that. I got a lot of guff for running fine wires and stopped telling people. In full disclosure, I was having some trouble with my o-320 making a weird noise. My A&P could hear the noise too but didn't know what it was either. He tested my massives, and said they checked out. Because it seemed like a cheaper place to start, I swapped them out with tempest fine wires and the problem seemed to go away. Coincidence or not, who knows, but the problem seems to be gone and I am happy with fixed.

    Everyone I talked to said there is no sense running fine wire in small engines and I just wasted a bucket of money for nothing. The argument goes that their only purpose is in turbocharged engines at altitude. On the other hand, I hear folks say even though they don't provide much benefit in small bores, but they last to TBO so over the long haul aren't that much different price wise.

    Why are you running fine wires in a super cub? Are there some other benefits I can point to? I hear some folks say they result in "better" combustion or less likely to foul. What tangible differences have you noticed with fine wires? It would be nice to have some talking points to defend the decision.

    Tim



    Quote Originally Posted by SJ View Post
    First change I make to any airplane - put in fine wires.

    sj

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    Quote Originally Posted by Tnathan View Post
    I am surprised to hear you say that. I got a lot of guff for running fine wires and stopped telling people. In full disclosure, I was having some trouble with my o-320 making a weird noise. My A&P could hear the noise too but didn't know what it was either. He tested my massives, and said they checked out. Because it seemed like a cheaper place to start, I swapped them out with tempest fine wires and the problem seemed to go away. Coincidence or not, who knows, but the problem seems to be gone and I am happy with fixed.

    Everyone I talked to said there is no sense running fine wire in small engines and I just wasted a bucket of money for nothing. The argument goes that their only purpose is in turbocharged engines at altitude. On the other hand, I hear folks say even though they don't provide much benefit in small bores, but they last to TBO so over the long haul aren't that much different price wise.

    Why are you running fine wires in a super cub? Are there some other benefits I can point to? I hear some folks say they result in "better" combustion or less likely to foul. What tangible differences have you noticed with fine wires? It would be nice to have some talking points to defend the decision.

    Tim
    Fouling and life span are the reason I do it. I'm a pretty aggressive leaner, fouling is rarely an issue for me, but it is NEVER an issue with fine wires, even on the plane I have at a flight school where they do not know how to lean.

    They DO sometimes fail before TBO, the last one that failed on me, I suspect the mechanic dropped it but I did not argue that we needed a new one.

    sj
    "Often Mistaken, but Never in Doubt"
    ------------------------------------------

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    ive noticed on some of these 18-14mm adapters, some have a flat shoulder and some have a tapered shoulder, are you guys addressing the tapered shoulder for the washer and just torquing it down? or maybe it dosent matter?
    Last edited by tempdoug; 06-25-2019 at 11:29 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by tempdoug View Post
    ive noticed on some of these 18-14mm adapters, some have a flat shoulder and some have a tapered shoulder, are you guys addressing the tapered shoulder for the washer and just torquing it down? or maybe it dosent matter?
    About a hundred years ago there were some taper seat 18mm plugs. Iron head Harleys or something like that. OK so only 80 years ago.
    If what you got has the full taper they are the wrong adapter, so yes. machining them will do the job.
    Thare are some slight taper / chamfer for centering the gasket, those are fine as long as the gasket gets centered.
    Only issue I see with machining, the brass adapters are fine but steel ones are no longer plated. But that is what antisieze and the gaskets are for.
    Last edited by CharlieN; 06-26-2019 at 07:07 AM. Reason: One word was really weird, dang spell checker that can't spell.
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    its the slight taper like you say charlie, and the spark plug gaskets or washers whatever you want to call them, are soft enough where i put there flat side to the cylinder and the not as flat side up to the adapter i think they will be just fine.thanks.

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    Quote Originally Posted by tempdoug View Post
    its the slight taper like you say charlie, and the spark plug gaskets or washers whatever you want to call them, are soft enough where i put there flat side to the cylinder and the not as flat side up to the adapter i think they will be just fine.thanks.
    That works.

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