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Thread: ATC guys lonely?

  1. #1
    Scouter's Avatar
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    ATC guys lonely?

    We finally finished the painful planting season. The little woman and I throw some stuff in the cub and tell the kids we will be home Monday

    out to VT to stay with some friends in Shelburne . We’re coming in from the east, drop-down under the outer ring of Burlington international We are well under the outer ring. I start to turn my downwind , voice comes on and says “aircraft at Shelburne how do you copy Burlington approach? Call this number after landing”
    Me: Jeezus now what
    i debated about even calling him, but I did because I thought I messed up
    He said Right off that I did nothing wrong, didn’t Break any FAR. He just said they were landing a commuter aircraft to the north over the top of me when I was coming into land at Shelburne. They had to divert him around me because he said we couldn’t confirm your altitude. And then I said you told me I was well under the outer ring floor of The Charlie air space so you must of been reading my mode C to which you replied yes we could see your altitude just fine. We just couldn’t confirm it. Next time call us when you’re going into Shelburne from the east. I started to say I thought that was your job, but he was pretty pleasant so we left it there I hate making these phone calls, the same thing happened to me last year on the way to Florida at Atlantic City for the same reason. ATC you guys don’t get enough talking in?

    jim
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  2. #2
    Bearhawk Builder's Avatar
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    Burlington is a pretty quiet place , probably just wanted to talk to someone.

  3. #3

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    When I am in the vicinity the approach almost always makes cold calls. Even when I am staying out of their arrival/departure routes. I reply they give me the code first then ask for intentions and sometimes explain what's going on. I don't have ADSB.

  4. #4
    Richgj3's Avatar
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    If everybody here on Long Island called approach when flying UNDER the Class C at KISP they would have to hire three more controllers. Bayport, 23N, is 3 miles from the center of KISP. There is a cut out in the inner ring just big enough for a 600 foot MSL (650 AGL) pattern. No radio communication required. No transponder required for non electrical aircraft.

    When Southwest and Frontier are on final for 33 at ISP and we are using 36 at 23N the vertical separation is 500 feet. That’s if the big iron is on the VASI and we don’t climb through 600 in the pattern. ISP tower doesn’t even monitor 23N Unicom. ISP class C is one of the initial ones, so it’s been that long. No aluminum showers yet.

    Rich

  5. #5

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    The problem is under new rules of engagement, except in rare cases like KSFO, ATC cannot put a TCAS equipped aircraft in a position where it will trip an RA or TA in the cockpit. Even more restrictive most airline operating rules prohibit the pilot from NOT following RA guidance EVEN if he believes he has the offending aircraft in sight. Equally so crews are prohibited from moving the switch to "TA Only". This is why when you are within 1000' of the floor of Class B or Class C a courtesy call is always welcome as it actually lightens the controllers work load.

    In the "old days" circa 1998 I had a Bellanca cross 500' below me on downwind at TUS. I had him in sight but.... it generated an RA which said "don't desend". It was recorded on the FOQA. Which is another reason to help out the airline pilot and the controller because when an RA is generated, it is recorded on the FOQA and the Captain is required to write a report of what happened. So when you trip an airliner's RA, you're making work for your fellow pilot that he really does not want to do on his laptop in his hotel room after a hard day. He like you would rather use that time to have a beer and relax.
    Thanks Oliver, alaskaoe, sjohnson thanked for this post
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  6. #6
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    I knew you would know GeeBee

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    sjohnson's Avatar
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    I assume ATC wants contact with nearby VFR traffic to verbally verify the altitude shown by the transponder. Does ADS-B out make it unnecessary?
    Idaho drinks more wine per person than any other state in the country.

  8. #8

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    This started happening under SoCal about five years ago. We had an ATC guy give a presentation - they have to re-route folks in class B if there is an unverified transponder showing under a class B shelf.

    One day CRQ tower told me to contact SoCal. I said "no, I am staying at 1500' and will be switching to MYF now, guaranteeing my altitude. Not enough; the SoCal controller stopped all NKX departures.

    A local controller's verification is no longer sufficient - they need to talk to you.

    My answer was to talk to a supervisor - he was a Cub pilot. Said we were not doing anything illegal, and to just keep doing what we were doing.

    One of my sharp students in a Chief - no transponder - was dutifully and conscientiously talking to SoCal under the LAX class B. One controller told him he couldn't do that and to immediately land. He recited the applicable FAR over the frequency. Sharp kid.

  9. #9

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    I just had the greatest experience transitioning thru Salt Lake, vfr I-15 corridor, something I dont do very often. Starting with Provo twr and every handoff thereafter the controllers were super and even interested in a cub transiting. At least one checked back in with me just to tell me I was doing fine, whew. Listening it was definitely not a slow day, great service for a country bumpkin
    Staying alive in an airplane has a lot more to do with mastering ourselves than mastering the aircraft.

  10. #10
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    I always call approach/departure when one is available. Why not? If they're busy, all the more reason to talk to them. I'll take all the help I can get avoiding other traffic for one thing. There's no guarantee they'll call out traffic conflict, but another set of eyes in busy airspace is always good.

    Then again, if you're preparing to land at a satellite airport, you really need to be on THAT frequency.

    In Fairbanks, when training on floats, I'd hop off the float pond, request a transition to the Chena River on the west side of the airport, cross over, and Tower would approve a frequency change to the CTAF for the river. We'd be popping up right beside and headed toward inbound traffic to the main runway 19R on the ILS as we launched out of the river to the north, and driving around very close to the big guys. Nobody ever got their undies in a knot that I'm aware of. Tower was great about letting us do that, and it's a great training spot for floats.

    FAI is in a TRSA. Charlie airspace was initially going to be proposed, but some of us whined enough that they went with a TRSA instead. That worked out really well, mostly because of really good controllers and ATC chief. They were always helpful. I flew a no transponder Husky out of there for a while, and they created a "procedure" for me to follow when the airport was below VFR. I'd get a SVFR clearance pretty fast by following that "procedure".


    MTV

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