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Thread: Suggestions on hangar size

  1. #41

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    I have a setting where I can have a wheel access airplane door on one end of the hangar, and the ability to have a seaplane/water access on the side wall of a new hangar.
    Just wondered if anyone has done a ramp or tracks to park seaplane on straight floats, then winch airplane on ramp into the hangar? Plane on floats would be lined up with side hangar door when parked in water.
    In the planning stage, just wondering the best option to have wheel and float access. Hangar would be deep enough to allow fitting at least two airplanes, one through wheel access door, other through water access door. Hangar would be within say 10' of water.
    Any input or thoughts?
    John

  2. #42
    Eddie Foy's Avatar
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    14 X 60 Hi Power is about $14,000 plus tax and shipping. You provide the skin for the door and hydraulic fluid.
    Quote Originally Posted by stewartb View Post
    Ok, the sticky-outie length. I get it now.

    That's an interesting system and a good idea for lots of applications. I'm pleased with mine. Two hydraulic rams and some hinges. Works great. I wonder how the two systems compare in price?
    "Put out my hand and touched the face of God!"

  3. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by john schwamm View Post
    I have a setting where I can have a wheel access airplane door on one end of the hangar, and the ability to have a seaplane/water access on the side wall of a new hangar.
    Just wondered if anyone has done a ramp or tracks to park seaplane on straight floats, then winch airplane on ramp into the hangar? Plane on floats would be lined up with side hangar door when parked in water.
    In the planning stage, just wondering the best option to have wheel and float access. Hangar would be deep enough to allow fitting at least two airplanes, one through wheel access door, other through water access door. Hangar would be within say 10' of water.
    Any input or thoughts?
    John
    First off your idea makes me envious.
    I flew off of Cambell lake in south Anchorage for about ten years. There were a few rail units as I recall to pull your plane from the water and up on the grass; but there was this one hangar that appeared to be built out over the lake as the 185 floated inside of the building. If you are only ten feet away perhaps you can create a channel / ditch to float inside and then use a lift to raise it out of the water if needed. It could double as an indoor swimming pool as well.
    It would be super cool to open the door and float right out to the lake.

    i was at a friends house in Northern Alberta many years ago that used a track system to get his cub into the water from the hangar and it worked well. He was a good hundred feet back from the shore though.

    Good luck with your plans.
    Ed
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  4. #44

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    Quote Originally Posted by john schwamm View Post
    I have a setting where I can have a wheel access airplane door on one end of the hangar, and the ability to have a seaplane/water access on the side wall of a new hangar.
    Just wondered if anyone has done a ramp or tracks to park seaplane on straight floats, then winch airplane on ramp into the hangar? Plane on floats would be lined up with side hangar door when parked in water.
    In the planning stage, just wondering the best option to have wheel and float access. Hangar would be deep enough to allow fitting at least two airplanes, one through wheel access door, other through water access door. Hangar would be within say 10' of water.
    Any input or thoughts?
    John
    http://www.p2inc.com/graphics/matrix-railway/new%20srs%20brochure.pdf
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  5. #45
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    Quote Originally Posted by john schwamm View Post
    I have a setting where I can have a wheel access airplane door on one end of the hangar, and the ability to have a seaplane/water access on the side wall of a new hangar.
    Just wondered if anyone has done a ramp or tracks to park seaplane on straight floats, then winch airplane on ramp into the hangar? Plane on floats would be lined up with side hangar door when parked in water.
    In the planning stage, just wondering the best option to have wheel and float access. Hangar would be deep enough to allow fitting at least two airplanes, one through wheel access door, other through water access door. Hangar would be within say 10' of water.
    Any input or thoughts?
    John
    John, This is not quite what you were asking, but there was a hangar built into the dam at the Quabbin Reservoir in Massachusetts. It has a set of tracks going from the hangar into the water. There is room enough to taxi an amphib up the ramp next to the tracks. https://www.mass.gov/files/documents...all%202011.pdf
    "A seaplane hangar facing the water beneath the roadway in front o fthe main entrance to the building was also part of the original plan, as it was expected that the reservoir would be patrolled by amphibious aircraft. While that idea never came to fruition, the hanger remains and now serves as an ideal boat storage and maintenance facility." The last picture here shows the hangar.
    More here: https://www.rinkerpipe.com/files/Rin...nReservoir.pdf

    The hangar is under the pavement below that iron fence.

    Years ago I flew the director of the department which controls the reservoir there with the Twin Bee and we taxied up that ramp. At the time they were considering buying an airplane. What a coincidence when we discovered that he and my Dad were boyhood friends. As a result I was given permission to land there whenever I wanted. I doubt that I could do it today without getting in trouble though I did take advantage of the privilege a few times. I've even forgotten his name.


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  6. #46
    skywagon8a's Avatar
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    I've also seen somewhere in Maine a single plane hangar built like a float in boathouse. The plane was floated tailed in, the tails of the floats were set up on a plank with some sort of a lifting device under the bows, the plane was then lifted out of the water inside the hangar.
    N1PA

  7. #47

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    Quote Originally Posted by cubpilot2 View Post
    First off your idea makes me envious.
    I flew off of Cambell lake in south Anchorage for about ten years. There were a few rail units as I recall to pull your plane from the water and up on the grass; but there was this one hangar that appeared to be built out over the lake as the 185 floated inside of the building. If you are only ten feet away perhaps you can create a channel / ditch to float inside and then use a lift to raise it out of the water if needed. It could double as an indoor swimming pool as well.
    It would be super cool to open the door and float right out to the lake.

    i was at a friends house in Northern Alberta many years ago that used a track system to get his cub into the water from the hangar and it worked well. He was a good hundred feet back from the shore though.

    Good luck with your plans.
    Cost of doing that in a hangar that would be heated in winter would be pretty much not possible. Freezing conditions, with water in/against foundation would make that not practical at all I believe. One would be building a heated pool in winter!! Then one does not have the use of the hangar floor area where floatplane would park at all.
    Sounds cool, but not practical.
    Thanks,
    John

  8. #48
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    There was a hangar built on a small lake in Kodiak (Island Lake) with the hangar built out from shore. The bifold door went down to water surface. Door opened with a remote. There was a wood ramp inside and side platforms. When the owner landed his Super Cub, he opened the door of the hangar with the remote, then drove the plane into the hangar, sticking it on the ramp. He could then exit, turn the plane around and heel it up on the ramp, ready for departure.

    inside, he had a hoist overhead, so when cold weather arrived, he could lift the plane out of the water to prevent freeze in. When (if) the ice got thick enough, hed remove the floats and install gear, and run on skis, till water got soft again.

    This was a really well thought out and functional place. Norm Sutliff was the owner and builder. His home was right next to the hangar. Worked fine in Kodiak. Obviously not heated. I was always envious of that setup.

    Have you seen Kenmores setup for getting planes in and out of water? Its a ramp where you stick the plane, tie it to the ramp, then the ramp is electrically winched up a set of rails to level. They then use a forklift to pick the plane, but you could do something similar to bring the plane into Hangar. If the ramp was on tires instead of rails, you could then store the ramp outside during cold when floatplane on wheels.

    MTV
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  9. #49

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    Invent what you want. That's the fun part.

  10. #50

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    High Power question. How do they seal the top? With a fixed hinge edge its pretty simple. And effective. How do you seal an articulating door?

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  11. #51
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    Mine is 54x45. I could get 3 planes in it if the perimeter didn't have items stored. 44 foot bifold door and overhead centered at rear. Allow some feet either side big door for wind load strength. I went bigger for universal storage, it's cheaper than building another garage.
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    Thank a sheepdog today for they are standing guard!
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  12. #52

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    [QUOTE=stewartb;748919]High Power question. How do they seal the top? With a fixed hinge edge its pretty simple. And effective. How do you seal an articulating door?


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    The gap between the top of the door and header is pretty tight. Tighter than most standard garage doors. I still haven’t gotten around to installing the top weather strip on mine. There’s just not much of a gap.

  13. #53
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    Did the weatherstripping on mine IAW the instructions and materials that came with the door. Works well.
    Gordon

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  14. #54

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    [QUOTE=KevinJ;748925]
    Quote Originally Posted by stewartb View Post
    High Power question. How do they seal the top? With a fixed hinge edge its pretty simple. And effective. How do you seal an articulating door?

    The other thing is, the door is inside the building so there is a natural overhang of the wall thickness to shield against water ingress, and the door closes up against the inside header surface. The bad news is, since the door is inside, you do lose the thickness of the door from your inside square footage. We replaced a homebuilt bifold with a Higher Power and no regrets it works perfect, though the nose of the last plane in does have to be 6" further back than before.. Our building was not engineered for the "single-panel-top-hinge" type door so that was never a consideration.


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    The gap between the top of the door and header is pretty tight. Tighter than most standard garage doors. I still haven’t gotten around to installing the top weather strip on mine. There’s just not much of a gap.

  15. #55

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    John Schwamm: This is what I did https://www.bifold.com/photo-of-the-day-dryden.php . Very painless way of getting the plane inside.
    Last edited by Runway51; 06-11-2019 at 06:14 AM.
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  16. #56

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    I started building my new hangar....I took a week off to form and pour concrete....something Im inexperienced at, but thought Id give it a go. Im building a 50x50 stick built building on an engineered slab....estimates for the concrete were $15k to $18k so I decided to pour it myself and hire an experienced finisher that I know to trowel it after....I poured half today...Ill pour the other half in a few days.

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    I bought an Ultimate Door Kit for the door and it will be stick built 24 center with walls and roof fully sheeted then metal over that. I used Gator Bar fiber rebar ....about a quarter the weight of steel bar and is supposed be stronger.
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  17. #57
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dan Gervae View Post
    it will be stick built 24” center with walls and roof fully sheeted then metal over that.
    Don't forget to insulate it under the tin roof to minimize condensation. Do this even if you never plan to heat it.
    N1PA
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  18. #58
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    Dan, Im curious, how much do you figure you saved on your concrete work by doing it yourself?

    Kurt

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    Ok, I've decided on a 60x60 with a 52x14 door. Next decision construction type: stick frame, steel prefab or foam panel. It will be insulated one way or the other. Opinions?
    Staying alive in an airplane has a lot more to do with mastering ourselves than mastering the aircraft.
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  20. #60
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    Quote Originally Posted by MT12 View Post
    Ok, I've decided on a 60x60 with a 52x14 door. Next decision construction type: stick frame, steel prefab or foam panel. It will be insulated one way or the other. Opinions?
    Ok, I will jump in with a few thoughts. I would probably go stick built but would go 16 on center instead of 24 on center. I would stack 4 or more trusses together about 16 feet back from the door so you have a strong point to hoist from. You may find yourself some day wanting to lift your airplane for some reason and doing this during the building stage is not very expensive. Tubes in the floor for heat, even if you don't heat now they will be there for the future. Build it strong, don't go cheap / chintzy, it will cost you more in the long run. Those are just a few random thoughts.

    Kurt
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    Quote Originally Posted by G44 View Post
    Dan, Im curious, how much do you figure you saved on your concrete work by doing it yourself?

    Kurt
    Actually I just looked at the quotes I had received and they were for a 4 inch slab with 8 inch thickened edge...I made mine 6 inch slab with 12 inch around perimeter....that $3,600 more in just concrete...estimates from the more reputable were about $16,000 fo the 4”....I’ll have about $11,500 in mine.....so if the contractor did it like I did I would suppose it would be closer to $20k. Add a whole bunch if you put tubes in because you have to insulate the whole thing then too. I’m just fine with a propane Modine type unit. Each to his own though. I will tell you this....the dirt work and concrete forming work was a hell of a lot of work! And I used vacation days to do it. I probably would rethink some of this, but the concrete guys were booked all summer by April so if I wanted to get going, I had to get going. lol
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  22. #62
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    Dissenting opinion: OK I can’t really argue with the bigger is better, or the theorem that you will always have 10% more stuff than shed. However here is another thought. Cold/hot aircraft storage here in East Texas is affordable $100-$150 for a tee-hangar. Now that is not on my field so there is some inconvenience involved. What is a premium is heated or more important and even more rare cooled hangar space. I have a single plane hangar that I was all set to knock down and rebuild X3 but then got to thinking about heating and cooling it so instead I rebuilt it as is, put in a powerlift door and a wall AC unit along with an old furnace blower and electric heat elements. So while I can only get one airplane in it at a time I can work in comfort.
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  23. #63

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    I think a good plan is to decide what you need for open floor space. My hangar has warehouse racking on two
    walks and a lounge and file cabinets, coat rack, etc on another wall. All the storage is great but it consumes floor space. Decide what you require for floor space and add for racks and work benches.

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    Quote Originally Posted by skywagon8a View Post
    Don't forget to insulate it under the tin roof to minimize condensation. Do this even if you never plan to heat it.
    I’m sheeting the whole building with OSB and wrapping it. That should take care of condensation.

  25. #65
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    Quote Originally Posted by MT12 View Post
    Ok, I've decided on a 60x60 with a 52x14 door. Next decision construction type: stick frame, steel prefab or foam panel. It will be insulated one way or the other. Opinions?
    Try MQS buildings.. www.mqsbarn.com
    We just had them do a barn for us (40x80) and a few others up here have had them do hangars. Very quality work, and they beat everyone's prices by a good margin!! We've all been amazed at the squareness and detail of the building.
    John
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  26. #66

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    Quote Originally Posted by MT12 View Post
    Ok, I've decided on a 60x60 with a 52x14 door. Next decision construction type: stick frame, steel prefab or foam panel. It will be insulated one way or the other. Opinions?
    Wood frame! Warmer. Quieter! The difference between metal and wood framed buildings is hard to miss.
    Last edited by stewartb; 06-23-2019 at 11:25 PM.
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  27. #67
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    Quote Originally Posted by sniffler View Post
    Dissenting opinion: OK I can’t really argue with the bigger is better, or the theorem that you will always have 10% more stuff than shed. However here is another thought. Cold/hot aircraft storage here in East Texas is affordable $100-$150 for a tee-hangar. Now that is not on my field so there is some inconvenience involved. What is a premium is heated or more important and even more rare cooled hangar space. I have a single plane hangar that I was all set to knock down and rebuild X3 but then got to thinking about heating and cooling it so instead I rebuilt it as is, put in a powerlift door and a wall AC unit along with an old furnace blower and electric heat elements. So while I can only get one airplane in it at a time I can work in comfort.
    My work hanger is 65'x80' with office, paint booth and shop taking up 20;x80'. Have been seriously thinking of building a heated and air conditioned hanger just big enough for a Cub to do maintenance in. The older I get the more I dislike the summer heat.
    Steve Pierce

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  28. #68
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    Quote Originally Posted by Steve Pierce View Post
    My work hanger is 65'x80' with office, paint booth and shop taking up 20;x80'. Have been seriously thinking of building a heated and air conditioned hanger just big enough for a Cub to do maintenance in. The older I get the more I dislike the summer heat.

    But but its a dry heat!
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  29. #69
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    Quote Originally Posted by RaisedByWolves View Post
    But but its a dry heat!
    Not this year, and it is still hot.
    Steve Pierce

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    Same at my TX shop. Big fans help until you figure out you're standing in a convection oven. We put in overhead doors at both ends. Changing the air rather than moving the air seems to help.
    Last edited by stewartb; 06-24-2019 at 10:20 AM.
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  31. #71

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    I’ll be able to wedge 3 Cubs in my 50’x50’ hangar if need be....if nothing much else is in there��*♂️
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    Quote Originally Posted by RaisedByWolves View Post
    But but its a dry heat!
    As is a convection oven.
    Remember, These are the Good old Days!

  33. #73
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dan Gervae View Post
    I’ll be able to wedge 3 Cubs in my 50’x50’ hangar if need be....if nothing much else is in there��*♂️
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    I don't know Dan, looks like in the drawing the door goes from edge to edge of the side walls. Thats not good for strength. You want at least a couple feet of wall on each end of the door side. With the door 44 feet or so it may be a bit more challenging to slide the airplanes in. The GoJack wheel dolly's are a must from Northern Tool.

    Kurt

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    If you look closer you will see 4’ of wall on each side....door is 42’ that’s what the truss was designed for...42’ door

  35. #75
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    Dan I sent you a PM the other day.


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  36. #76
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dan Gervae View Post
    If you look closer you will see 4’ of wall on each side....door is 42’ that’s what the truss was designed for...42’ door
    Excellent!

    Kurt

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dan Gervae View Post
    I started building my new hangar....I took a week off to form and pour concrete....something Im inexperienced at, but thought Id give it a go. Im building a 50x50 stick built building on an engineered slab....estimates for the concrete were $15k to $18k so I decided to pour it myself and hire an experienced finisher that I know to trowel it after....I poured half today...Ill pour the other half in a few days.

    Click image for larger version. 

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    I bought an Ultimate Door Kit for the door and it will be stick built 24 center with walls and roof fully sheeted then metal over that. I used Gator Bar fiber rebar ....about a quarter the weight of steel bar and is supposed be stronger.
    Where is it located Dan? Congrats on the new hangar.

    Jeff


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    Almost Truss Time
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    after thought

    Quote Originally Posted by MT12 View Post
    Ok, I've decided on a 60x60 with a 52x14 door. Next decision construction type: stick frame, steel prefab or foam panel. It will be insulated one way or the other. Opinions?
    Mine is 60 wide X 50 deep wood frame 16" ceiling. 3 planes fit nicely but hard to get around.
    In hind sight, just 2 feet wider I could easily jockey the planes around without sweating the wings touching. My planes are 33.5 wide and it always seems like I need the one in the back out. I even thought about notching the wall or selling and build again. I'd go 62 or 64 wide next time.

    I chose wood frame for many reasons. DIY labor, less concrete needed to support weight, easy to insulate.

    I chose Schneider 42' X 14' Bi-fold. $9000 delivered to Alaska. I wish it was a little wide though. Easy to hang and easy to seal. Great people to deal with.
    Thanks MT12 thanked for this post
    Likes MT12, cubnut liked this post

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