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Suggestions on hangar size

Looks beautiful!

One suggestion - before you cover up your trusses see what it would take to beef one (or more) up for lifting. I requested the truss company to provide a 2000 lb lifting capacity from the bottom chord of one strategically located truss so that I could hang a chain fall and lift the plane (or other stuff).
That is what I have been thinking in my plan for a single plane heated and air conditioned maintenance hanger. Don't know if it will ever happen but the dream get me throught these hot days. ;)
 
I will put an electric motor on eventually. I put a cheap $30 boat winch for now until I get the power run to the building

I have a door just like this one; same company I imagine. I rent and the owner of the hanger installed it on an older hangar so there are a few leaks due to old, uneven concrete but all in all, I like it. I'm 70 and all it has is the hand cranked boat winch and we get along fine. I imagine that the degree of grunt is directly proportional to the weight of the counter balance used. Mine could probably use a little more weight but it works OK.

One thing, at first the clear plastic sounds like a great idea for "free" lighting but unless it faces north (and most don't) there will be unwanted UV rays as well as light at least part of the day. I started to see some items (like tool handles) being bleached by the sun (I face east) and figured that the same thing could be happening to the plane fabric. I ran a cable just under the door trolley guide rails and rigged up 8x10 silvered tarps to slide along the cable. Very easy to slide them to the sides and secure with bungees when I want the door opened. Keeps out the UV and other light when unwanted and also discourages nosey folks when I am not there. Of course, with an all metal plane there isn't as much of a UV concern.
 
Well, I paid all my bills for material which is on site and all I have left is to wrap the building, put the siding on and install my man door. I have all my electrical supplies and will wire it soon...power company is installing new pad mount transformer and meter base in two weeks....grand total $38,200. Lots of of my time though. I spent most of my summer spare time doing something hangar related. How’d I do price wise?
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Dan,
What size are the panels you installed?
Thanks,
Glenn
 
Mine is 42x42 built simply as a T hanger on the important side (runway) and vehicle parking on the other. I have ordered materials for the Ultimate Door system which I plan to get started on shortly. Thanks Tom and Doug!
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Nice job!!!
Your hard work paid off.
You can fully plywood both sides of any one of those trusses & achieve a 2k live load lifting point. Your lifting point should come from the “top” of the truss (peak of roof), not just off the bottom chord. A 5/16” thick x 3” wide flat bar thru bolted vertically from peak to below bottom chord of truss with a 1” lifting hole will serve you well. Install an outlet near lifting point. Then keep your eyes open for a nice electric hoist.


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A similar deal but on more trusses can result in a beam trolley being used the length of the building. I did my 40' shop this way, it has a 4" I beam (light gauge) and two 1 K capacity chain falls on rolling hangars. Used almost daily, not only can I pick but I can move thing with this setup, my earlier shop had the same setup, you just don't get too crazy with the loads! It drives me crazy when I see a tall hangar cramed full of misc stuff plus an airplane, and all the wasted space up high, with no way to utilize it. My shops also have various ceiling hard points scattered around so I can hang 500-700 pounds of rarely used things, like a table saw etc. For sure be qualified or get a qualified person to do it right. I also back off a bit when there's a couple feet of snow on the roof!
 
Height is great if you got stuff. Thinking on a heated and air conditioned hanger I want it just high enough. Can store my treasure in the main hanger.
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I took my wife’s car for a ride tonight to show it where it will live while I finish building my Cub this winter!
 

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If you guys have cool pictures of work bench’s in your hangars...post em so I can steal your cool ideas!
 
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I took my wife’s car for a ride tonight to show it where it will live while I finish building my Cub this winter!


Dan
Im not a building expert, but I have built and maintained a few. Im concerned that there is no knee bracing at the top of your walls to the trusses . Looks like you are in the upper Pen of Michigan, and I sure you have plenty of snow to plow.
A big snow load and the wrong wind will bring it down. It looks like it is studded 12' wall height? i was always planning for the amphib beaver (yea Right) and posted every hangar 16'6" and its more important there. I would check with a builder or engineer or your truss guy.

jim

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Dan
Im not a building expert, but I have built and maintained a few. Im concerned that there is no knee bracing at the top of your walls to the trusses . Looks like you are in the upper Pen of Michigan, and I sure you have plenty of snow to plow.
A big snow load and the wrong wind will bring it down. It looks like it is studded 12' wall height? i was always planning for the amphib beaver (yea Right) and posted every hangar 16'6" and its more important there. I would check with a builder or engineer or your truss guy.

jim

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Good catch Jim.
Only the better truss manufacturers will give you lateral bracing or support wall requirements. Most don’t want the liability / cost of reviewing the supporting sub-structure design.
Wall to truss bracing is super critical in this configuration. Especially the front 2/3rds of the building. The full back wall is what’s keeping that building up in a wind right now.
Get the braces installed ASAP.

Avoid this happening....

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Proper knee brace install will go to the top chord of truss.
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I was concerned about bracing also so I asked my building inspector last week...he said that diagonal bracing on the side walls from gable inward and down to the floor plate should be installed....no knee braces necessary according to him and the truss manufacturer. However....it seems like cheap insurance. That’s why I love this group...I’m no builder either I’m an Electrical Engineer...so your advice is very welcome....thank you so much!
 
If you guys have cool pictures of work bench’s in your hangars...post em so I can steal your cool ideas!

Something I learned from my father's shop and have used twice: instead of building a bench up against a wall, offset it 4' away from the wall, now you can walk around it, put bigger then the bench sized things on it etc. My bench is bolted down to the concrete, and shot in with a laser level so dead nuts flat and straight, and with built in drawers underneath. With more shelves behind it on the wall. The vice steel post was poured in with the slab, so rock solid. I'll post a picture later, I'm pretty proud of it, nothing worse then a wobbly work bench.

Knee bracing? Never seen that in snowy Idaho, a belt and suspenders approach, go with what your local truss guys says they know, the building inspector I can almost guarantee you, is a failed builder. "There those who do and those who inspect others work." Rare to get one with real and good practical experience is my point, official title aside.
 
I was concerned about bracing also so I asked my building inspector last week...he said that diagonal bracing on the side walls from gable inward and down to the floor plate should be installed....no knee braces necessary according to him and the truss manufacturer. However....it seems like cheap insurance. That’s why I love this group...I’m no builder either I’m an Electrical Engineer...so your advice is very welcome....thank you so much!
The angle bracing is for one axis, the knee bracing is for the other (parallel with the trusses) and is critical to help resist the walls trying to rack over which is made worse due to the large door opening. Also, if I remember the code right (but it has been awhile) I thought rigid sheathing replaced the wall angel wind bracing your inspector mentioned.
 
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Dan,
Tuftex info shows they should be mounted with maximum 24" o.c. cross bracing. The standard ultimate door only utilizes cross bracing at a much greater spacing - do you have any concerns on this?

pb

All I saw was for roof installations where snow load is a big factor but it also comes into play on side walls as does wind and if you're over-spanned it may deflect and if severe could possibly fail.

Key will be how much snow is allowed to stack against the door and the wind loading the door is designed to resist and it sees. Their design like all others turns the door into a diaphragm member to keep its shape when moving unsupported but turning that into a wall requires being able to securely attach that diaphragm to the structure in multiple locations. I couldn't see it in your pictures or on the door web site but I'm curious if there is a provision or option for drop pins into the slab to resist side loads and/or even at the jambs? Could be as simple as a couple of large diameter manual thro-bolts that penetrate into the slab, this helps at the bottom. Granted I'm in tornado country but my door (43x14 "Floating Door") has multiple large (1" dia.) pins that auto-drop into holes cored into the slab plus a hook and bale system that auto engages at the top when closed so it is rated to resist a UL-90 wind load and I built the hanger so it is faces away from strong storm winds. Another hanger I was in had manual boomers on the sides plus the drop pins... Just don't ask me how much noise it makes when you hit the open button after you forgot to release the boomers.
 
All I saw was for roof installations where snow load is a big factor but it also comes into play on side walls as does wind and if you're over-spanned it may deflect and if severe could possibly fail.

Key will be how much snow is allowed to stack against the door and the wind loading the door is designed to resist and it sees. Their design like all others turns the door into a diaphragm member to keep its shape when moving unsupported but turning that into a wall requires being able to securely attach that diaphragm to the structure in multiple locations. I couldn't see it in your pictures or on the door web site but I'm curious if there is a provision or option for drop pins into the slab to resist side loads and/or even at the jambs? Could be as simple as a couple of large diameter manual thro-bolts that penetrate into the slab, this helps at the bottom. Granted I'm in tornado country but my door (43x14 "Floating Door") has multiple large (1" dia.) pins that auto-drop into holes cored into the slab plus a hook and bale system that auto engages at the top when closed so it is rated to resist a UL-90 wind load and I built the hanger so it is faces away from strong storm winds. Another hanger I was in had manual boomers on the sides plus the drop pins... Just don't ask me how much noise it makes when you hit the open button after you forgot to release the boomers.

Yup, there are spring loaded pins that drop into holes drilled in the slab, once the door is lowered all the way you pull on the handles bolted to the inside of the door....the pins pop into the holes and secure the bottom. I have considered putting some 1"x1" wood (nailers) to give more places to attach the panels to, but i figured I'd see how it goes....no question the door does have some flimsiness to it in some areas.....the plans say you can use aluminum to sheet the door as well....just no steel (too heavy). since the door lifts almost vertically for the first couple feet....the pins just do their thing, no need to touch them...winter ice will be another issue I'm certain....Time will tell.
 
The angle bracing is for one axis, the knee bracing is for the other (parallel with the trusses) and is critical to help resist the walls trying to rack over which is made worse due to the large door opening. Also, if I remember the code right (but it has been awhile) I thought rigid sheathing replaced the wall angel wind bracing your inspector mentioned.

I think you are right on the sheeting deal, that gives the diagonal support it needs....heck it's 5/8" sheeting on those walls.....I'll mention it to the Inspector. I have never seen knee bracing around here either (we use 80 pSI) for snow load code around here....pretty high, but as I said, it looks like cheap insurance.
 
IMG_2466.jpgIMG_7731.jpgHere are a couple of doors that others have in service and to my knowledge have served well.
 

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I have considered putting some 1"x1" wood (nailers) to give more places to attach the panels to, but i figured I'd see how it goes....no question the door does have some flimsiness to it in some areas....

This is tuftex installation sheet regarding side wall spacing -
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Since a few of you have them, I saw this photo today which I thought was some good ingenuity.

This photo shows the counterweight in the wall slot, but also note the sideways and top mounted residential garage door opener. With proper counterweight that unit allows remote control and up/down limit switches built in. Not a bad thought. According the title it's a Michigan hangar.

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Since a few of you have them, I saw this photo today which I thought was some good ingenuity.

This photo shows the counterweight in the wall slot, but also note the sideways and top mounted residential garage door opener. With proper counterweight that unit allows remote control and up/down limit switches built in. Not a bad thought. According the title it's a Michigan hangar.

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That's cool.
 
It all depends on truss to wall attachment, knee braces are not required unless your attachment of truss to wall is inadequate. All the old pole barns had knee braces (and being on the farm with lots and lots of tall equipment we hated them) with the new truss connectors and corner braces they just aren’t required.
 
That’s an interesting article Jim. Unfortunately they of course don’t dive into any solutions or alternatives other than “don’t do it”.

Like others I’ve built a lot of pole-type barns, and have to say the common practice was used.

My assumption is that the authors are saying that poles, commonly only 4’ down, has enough earth around it to keep the other 16’ sticking out of the ground from being knocked over by the wind?
If there are largely 4 sides with only a few openings I could understand to a degree, but with one side wide open, I’m thinking I need some more data to justify it.

I can understand a slightly increased load on the trusses with a heavy wind against a wall, and the knee braces properly extended from post all the way to the top chord, and attached to the bottom chord as well. But I’d rather have the roof take a small load than have the whole roof come down as one unit on failed walls.

It would be interesting to see if anyone examined and collected failure points on wind/snow demolished pole barns.


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The damage most often seen here in the Champlain Valley is a direct result of snow loads greatly exceeding the designed load resulting in truss failure and building collapse. I have always been pleasantly surprised by how little price increase there is between a truss designed for a particular zone and one which is built with a 50% greater top and bottom cord strength. Cheap money for the piece of mind during a nor'easter.
 
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they sure do start to fill up fast...I have 2 walls to finish and the ceiling. I needed to move some of my stuff though...so
 

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