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Thread: Beechcraft Bonanza Stall Characteristics

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    Beechcraft Bonanza Stall Characteristics

    Two or three Bonanza and Debonair pilots at the Sunday beer event insisted that those aircraft will enter a spin each and every time they are stalled. I have less than five hours in such aircraft, including only two approaches to stalls, and I do not remember such nastiness.

    Any truth to this? Difficult to believe . . . I routinely stall any new type aircraft, and have never flown an aircraft that just spins at stall. Even the Cirrus, required to have a parachute because of some stall characteristic, stalls gently.

    If it is true, I will avoid those Beech owners who want flight reviews. I already avoid the throw-over yoke.

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    I have done a lot of Bonanza checkouts, stalled them many times, both V tail and conventional and note no such issues. That all said, I would not do a thrower yoke airplane unless I was comfortable with the pilot in question.
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    Somehow I would have never dreamed that there would be a thread titled "Beechcraft Bonanza Stall Characteristics" on this site... guess the new mantra really is true.
    Remember, These are the Good old Days!

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    Eddie Foy's Avatar
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    I was inverted!
    "Put out my hand and touched the face of God!"

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    Quote Originally Posted by bob turner View Post
    Two or three Bonanza and Debonair pilots at the Sunday beer event insisted that those aircraft will enter a spin each and every time they are stalled. I have less than five hours in such aircraft, including only two approaches to stalls, and I do not remember such nastiness.

    Any truth to this? Difficult to believe . . . I routinely stall any new type aircraft, and have never flown an aircraft that just spins at stall. Even the Cirrus, required to have a parachute because of some stall characteristic, stalls gently.

    If it is true, I will avoid those Beech owners who want flight reviews. I already avoid the throw-over yoke.
    Bob,

    The Cirrus actually passed all required flight tests during certification. The company chose to certificate it with the parachute for stall/spin recovery.

    MTV

  6. #6

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    My guess is you go a lot of pilots uncomfortable stalling the airplane.
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    Richgj3's Avatar
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    I currently own a V35B. I have done stall series with a Bonanza Society Instructor. I have owned and/or flown Cubs, Comanches, WACO’s and Stearman, C170, and a Great Lakes. They all stall and recovered the same way, as far as I’m concerned.

    Having said that, the Beech instructor demonstrated a maneuver in the Bonanza when in trimmed level flight at about 110 mph in smooth air, if you let it go it will start a level shallow bank left turn and stay there until you stop it or it runs out of gas. He said “If you ever fly in one that doesn’t do that, be careful when you stall it”

    Rich
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    Thanks. That's kinda what I expected.

    I asked here, because this crowd generally does know how to do slow flight/stall. Bonanza drivers go from A to B.
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    skywagon8a's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Richgj3 View Post
    ..Having said that, the Beech instructor demonstrated a maneuver in the Bonanza when in trimmed level flight at about 110 mph in smooth air, if you let it go it will start a level shallow bank left turn and stay there until you stop it or it runs out of gas. He said “If you ever fly in one that doesn’t do that, be careful when you stall it”

    Rich
    Rich, Can you elaborate on this a bit? What is the cause of the left bank? Releasing the yoke or taking your feet off the pedals? Does the ball remain centered? I'm trying to understand the aerodynamics of why it turns left and why not right. Is it the offset of the engine? What in the rigging makes the plane turn left and not fly hands off straight and level? Why did Beech not rig out this characteristic? Is this peculiar to the V tail or the Debonair tail or both? Did the Beech instructor elaborate? Curious minds need to know the true answers if they are available. At least my mind does.

    I am familiar with another type of airplane in which some would drop the left wing, some would drop the right wing and some would stall straight ahead. The left or right wing droppers would want to enter spins (easy to prevent). The straight stallers were benign. Some of these planes were dogs. some were super performers. Eventually the factory discovered that when they were built, the leading edge skin was not bent to conform properly to the required airfoil shape. It varied from plane to plane and from wing to wing. The consistency between airplanes was not there. After this was corrected in production, this peculiar characteristic was gone. Yet there does remain a batch of planes out there with this discrepancy. It is not advisable to buy one of these based upon looks alone.
    N1PA
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    SJ's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by GeeBee View Post
    My guess is you go a lot of pilots uncomfortable stalling the airplane.
    Just about the most stressful part of the flight review for many pilots. I've done stalls in Bonanzas with both kinds of yokes, nothing in the POH that I saw that said to do anything different than normal. Some guy overloads and airplane type with an aft CG and gets in an unrecoverable spin and we blame the airplane.

    sj
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    skywagon8a's Avatar
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    sj, I had a friend for whom I did his flight review in his Widgeon for years. Whenever we did stalls or Vmc demonstrations he would get all squirmy when we got close and would refuse to complete them. Finally he went elsewhere out of State for his reviews and said no more about them. Some people have no desire to be proficient nor to be better pilots. Mediocre is good enough for them.
    N1PA
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  12. #12

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    Stalls in Bonanzas of any variety are a non issue. Remember, the E33C and F33C are aerobatic airplanes!


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

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    Skywagon8

    I didn’t ask why at that time. I was too busy being astounded by how fast the airplane builds speed in a spiral if you screw up. In any case, the airplane flys straight in normal cruise. It’s just something it does at the slow airspeed. I think he called it the Bonanza Dance or something. I think this is only a V Tail thing. Rigging a V Tail properly requires tools and jigs available from the Bonanza Society. You shouldn’t try to do it with a protractor, tape measure and a level.

    Just one of those trivia things. Our V35B was rigged with the tools and jigs. It flys in cruise straight. It stalls straight ahead. And it exhibits the left turning tendency clean at 110 mph in smooth air. It’s so subtle you wouldn’t notice it if there was a bump.

    Back to your regular SUPER-CUB programming.

    Rich
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  14. #14
    skywagon8a's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Richgj3 View Post
    It flys in cruise straight. It stalls straight ahead. And it exhibits the left turning tendency clean at 110 mph in smooth air. It’s so subtle you wouldn’t notice it if there was a bump.
    Rich
    Thanks Rich, I think that answers it. When the plane is slowed to and trimmed at 110 the P factor from the prop pulls slightly left. At normal cruise speeds the rigging is the controlling factor.
    N1PA

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    Dave Calkins's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by skywagon8a View Post


    I am familiar with another type of airplane in which some would drop the left wing, some would drop the right wing and some would stall straight ahead. The left or right wing droppers would want to enter spins (easy to prevent). The straight stallers were benign. Some of these planes were dogs. some were super performers. Eventually the factory discovered that when they were built, the leading edge skin was not bent to conform properly to the required airfoil shape. It varied from plane to plane and from wing to wing. The consistency between airplanes was not there. After this was corrected in production, this peculiar characteristic was gone. Yet there does remain a batch of planes out there with this discrepancy. It is not advisable to buy one of these based upon looks alone.

    You gotta tell us which plane.

    Please? d

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    Quote Originally Posted by skywagon8a View Post
    Rich, Can you elaborate on this a bit? What is the cause of the left bank? Releasing the yoke or taking your feet off the pedals? Does the ball remain centered? I'm trying to understand the aerodynamics of why it turns left and why not right. Is it the offset of the engine? What in the rigging makes the plane turn left and not fly hands off straight and level? Why did Beech not rig out this characteristic? Is this peculiar to the V tail or the Debonair tail or both? Did the Beech instructor elaborate? Curious minds need to know the true answers if they are available. At least my mind does.

    I am familiar with another type of airplane in which some would drop the left wing, some would drop the right wing and some would stall straight ahead. The left or right wing droppers would want to enter spins (easy to prevent). The straight stallers were benign. Some of these planes were dogs. some were super performers. Eventually the factory discovered that when they were built, the leading edge skin was not bent to conform properly to the required airfoil shape. It varied from plane to plane and from wing to wing. The consistency between airplanes was not there. After this was corrected in production, this peculiar characteristic was gone. Yet there does remain a batch of planes out there with this discrepancy. It is not advisable to buy one of these based upon looks alone.
    Years ago, while doing major repairs on a Mooney, I plotted out airfoil templates for various wing stations to ensure our new skins conformed to the correct airfoil. Nothing wanted to line up right (skins were match drilled from the originals). Checked another Mooney in the shop and both wings were different. Not only that, but looking inside the wings, about half the rivets were toe nailed over! We finally got the wing we were working on to conform to the correct airfoil after starting from scratch on another set of skins.

    I hate working on Mooneys!


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  17. #17

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    Me too. But I love flying them!

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    skywagon8a's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dave Calkins View Post
    You gotta tell us which plane.

    Please? d
    Dave, They were Lake LA-4-180s. I didn't notice this characteristic on the earlier C-1 and C-2s. The error was discovered prior to the end of the 180 production run so that the last 180s were very good. This didn't effect the 200s.
    N1PA

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    Talking

    Quote Originally Posted by OLDCROWE View Post
    Somehow I would have never dreamed that there would be a thread titled "Beechcraft Bonanza Stall Characteristics" on this site... guess the new mantra really is true.
    I heard sj is coming out with a new cap........embroidered with SCINO
    "Sometimes a Cigar is just a Cigar"

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    Mooney used to and I don't know if they still do, have differing locations of the stall strips on the inboard portion of the wing based upon test reports. They would tape them on to start and move them around until the wings stalled evenly. When they got it right they would tack the strip to the wing.
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