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J3 Speed mods ?

My first S-7 had a J-3 type cowl, with the Subaru conversion heads and oil pan out in the breeze. I never had any cooling problems (1300 hours). My second and current S-7S has everything tucked up inside. In retrospect, the first flew a lot like a J-3, while my second flies like my T- Craft. Faster, using less fuel. Amazing how much drag that J3 type cowl had!

Can't wait to try Jerry's crusie trim trick...
..
 
[UOTE=skywagon8a;747696]J-3? & Speed?
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My Father, Tony Schwamm used to give float ratings in Juneau area in the later 1930's in an Aeronca C-3. They actually flew on floats with the 2 cylinder, 36 HP engine! Gastineau Flying club trainer back in the day. I donated a C-3 engine to the Alaska Aviation Museum for display at Lake Hood.
John Schwamm

You need more of these.
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This is the only Aeronca that will be passed by a J-3.
[/QUOTE]
 
J3s came from the factory with installed speed mods, close the door and go 2mph faster. But why would anyone want to do that, or go that fast?

Glenn
 
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john schwamm said:
My Father, Tony Schwamm used to give float ratings in Juneau area in the later 1930's in an Aeronca C-3. They actually flew on floats with the 2 cylinder, 36 HP engine! Gastineau Flying club trainer back in the day. I donated a C-3 engine to the Alaska Aviation Museum for display at Lake Hood.
John Schwamm
Click to expand...
Is this it?

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Was this before your time John?

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There is a nice picture of your parents on page 110 of "Alaska Bush Pilots in the Float Country" with more pictures of the Savoia. Also another picture of the C-3 on page 97.

Sorry for the segway Another Cubber. John, stirred some of my memory.
 

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Skywagon,
You got it all right! That was the C-3 my Dad gave float ratings in back before my time. Before he went to Alaska in the late 30's he had a flying school in LA, flew in several Howard Hughes movies, Hell's Angels, Wings, etc. in WWI biplanes.
The Savoia Marchetti was his, quite a story. The Italians flew them from Italy to the Worlds Fair in Chicago, left two of them in NJ not flyable back to Italy. My Dad bought them and built one out of the two, shipped it from NJ through the Panama canal on a ship to LA. Flew it from LA to Alaska. Was wrecked in a taku wind when tied up in Juneau, Dad was in the hospital with pneumonia. Was to be Alaska Airways for flights around SE and Seattle, but never was to be. Dad had the Petersburg Air Service where we lived, WWII came along and he took his Waco into the war until the Navy had their own planes for coastal patrol. He was commanding officer of Navy base just north of Sitka, I was born there in the Pioneer's Home in 1943. After the war we moved to Anchorage in 1949 where Dad became the first Director of Aviation for the Territory of Alaska, built many airports all over, travelled to most of them when I was a kid with him. Then Director of Anchorage International when we became a State.
Flying was in my blood, so always had airplanes in my life.
Thanks very much for posting those pictures.
John
 
John,
your fathers WACO, was it the YKS-S, NC16512 ?
It belongs to a friend here in Germany and
is for sale.
Together with my UKC we did many air shows here in Europe until I sold my UKC last year.
 
wacodriver said:
John,
your fathers WACO, was it the YKS-S, NC16512 ?
It belongs to a friend here in Germany and
is for sale.
Together with my UKC we did many air shows here in Europe until I sold my UKC last year.
Click to expand...

Wacodriver,
Yes, that is one that he bought new, had more than one over the years, on floats in Petersburg, Alaska. I knew of it there, it was in Anchorage for years on floats at Lake Hood seaplane base, yellow and green at the time. There are pictures of it in the Alaska Wings, aviation in southeast Alaska, and Alaska Bush Pilots book. He had a Petersburg Shrimp logo with Petersburg Air Service on the side. Was a darker red/maroon back in the day originally. He took that Waco into the Navy until they got the Kingfishers to Alaska for coastal patrol.
Thanks for the update. I should own it for nostalgia, but have too many airplanes now.
John
 
I snuck in an hour flight between rain squalls since my last post here, (sure is handy flying out of your own place) and tried the "trim up and hold forward" trick. Glass smooth air, perfect test conditions, and could see no gain in speed. BUT, I don't have a moving stab, but a large and very effective electric Ray Allen trim tab, so maybe that changes things, probably. I'll play with it some more, I tried a little up, then quite a bit up, and neither increased cruise while holding zero ROC. I was also very light, without my winter time ski flying survival gear, or my summertime camping gear, or even my e bike, just my tie downs. So, when loaded more normally I'll try it again, worth trying and it makes sense to me.
 
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john schwamm said:
Wacodriver,
Yes, that is one that he bought new, had more than one over the years, on floats in Petersburg, Alaska. I knew of it there, it was in Anchorage for years on floats at Lake Hood seaplane base, yellow and green at the time. There are pictures of it in the Alaska Wings, aviation in southeast Alaska, and Alaska Bush Pilots book. He had a Petersburg Shrimp logo with Petersburg Air Service on the side. Was a darker red/maroon back in the day originally. He took that Waco into the Navy until they got the Kingfishers to Alaska for coastal patrol.
Thanks for the update. I should own it for nostalgia, but have too many airplanes now.
John
Click to expand...
 

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I don’t think Jerry’s trick works unless you have a movable stab for trim - Cub and C-180 come to mind. I never noticed a speed gain in the 180,but that may be because I am lazy and like to fly hands off.
 
I have to try the trim trick. Obviously it's making the H-stab into a makeshift airfoil. Curious to see if I can get anything out of it. Of course it's only going to work (if it does) on a trimmable stabilizer. On the other side of that coin, we have a local Cubber who fancies himself a pretty sharp stick, and he and I got into a rather spirited debate regarding trim a while back. With a servo-tab style trim, you can actually get the most elevator effect by counter-trimming, if you can stand the control force. On a trimmable stab, the reverse is true AND the control force is in your favor. Somewhere he had read about getting the max. effect by counter trimming, but had missed the stipulation about it only applying to trim-tab airplanes...or the author didn't know any better. Anyway he started trimming nose down in his Cub, and swore he could drag it in slower by doing so. He was so adamant about it, I just gave up and walked away. I don't know if he ever figured it out. I guess sometimes perception trumps reality.
 
This might be the most random, diverse and neat thread I’ve read on Supercub.org. The worst part is that there is only two pages of it so far. Who knows what other topics will come up.

As far as Jerry Burrs trick, I’d be screaming Blowing Snow, put down the crack pipe or April Fools if it was anybody else. Obviously, Jerry has forgot more than most of us will ever learn. On that note, I’ll be trying his trick and I will be devastated it he’s pulling our leg;-)
 
KevinJ said:
This might be the most random, diverse and neat thread I’ve read on Supercub.org. The worst part is that there is only two pages of it so far.
Click to expand...

I agree, and enjoying it very much so. As it pertains to my original topic, ( is there a way to add a few mph to a j3 without permanently scaring it ? ), i think Jerry Burr is the winner assuming " buy a taylorcraft" wasnt implying it somehow be bolted onto the cub. The other topics that bloom make for some great reading. oh well, guess i had better get at it a bit.
 
Go look at a tripacer. Use the strut and gear fairings from one of those, and a set of early Supercub bungee covers.
Then a set of wheel pants. (I've got a perfect set off a PA-11)

None of those are permanent and should get you about 10 mph.

Of course you will have to have the right engine/prop combo to make it work.
 
Another Cubber said:
….if i use a slight dive to pick up speed in my cherokee, it will maintain an extra 7-8 mph until it's disturbed. …...
Click to expand...

I've heard this referred to as cruising "on the step". Seems to work.
Another similar, related phenomena:
sometimes it seems my cruise speed isn't quite what it should be, although I'm in level flight (not climbing or descending)--
adding a little nose down trim sometimes bumps the airspeed back up to normal.
Again, sort of getting it on the step.
 
Looks like Jerry Burr gets two thumbs up for one on the stick ! Anyone else seen a before and after with wheel pants aside from figuring out how to get in with them on ?
 
I don’t know how I’d get in a Cub with wheelpants, I’m not sure where I’d put my feet to push off and get in. I have a C85 stroker in my J3 and have to push forward to stay level in cruise. It’s a solid 80 mph like that, real cross country machine.
 
Years ago I knew a guy with a 200 mph tweaked Long Eze. We started talking about all the places we had flown since we last saw each other, and at one point I asked him the TT on the Eze now, with all the flying he'd been doing I was expecting something more then what he said. He laughed and said it was hard to build time at 200 per! If I am flying, short of a long XC or trying to beat weather, I just about always fly at the lower fuel burn speeds, sometimes the very lowest fuel burn speed. That way, besides the fuel savings, I get to log more time! I don't really care if more speed may result in equal or maybe even better MPG, if it means getting there quicker.Obvious, I guess but for us slow fliers a fact that we may take for granted. I'd rather take an hour then make the same flight in 45 minutes, all things considered. Like many I think, as long as I'm going faster then any car traffic below, that's fast enough, so the bumping up of the Idaho speed limit to 80 a few years ago, kinda pissed me off! Now and then, it's fun to bump it up a bit, but the majority of the time I LIKE to go slow.
 
I heard from a guy in Montana who was putting T-cart wings and spring steel gear on Cubs and getting 130 mph.

I am a skeptic - my 180 Decathlon with speed fairings and C/s prop barely does that at cruise power settings. But used Decathlons are plentiful and inexpensive - maybe that is a no hassle answer.
 
The easiest way to add some knots are to change out the struts to Pa-11 struts as well as the ling and short struts for the gear. The factory did do it to a few planes. I know specifically of one. You will gain about 8 knots which percentage wise is pretty good.
 
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