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Thread: Hooker shoulder harness

  1. #41
    algonquin's Avatar
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    If I knew he was going to get that upset I would have mailed him one of my magic wands and solved his problem.( I get them at Staples)
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  2. #42
    Steve Pierce's Avatar
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    All the information you got was worth the price you paid.
    Steve Pierce

    Everybody is ignorant, only on different subjects.
    Will Rogers
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  3. #43
    Eddie Foy's Avatar
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    You need more fiber in your diet. You got alot of good advice free!! Geez!

    Quote Originally Posted by Wes K View Post
    This is worse than facebook. I have known for many years many of the seat belts and harness' can be installed as a minor alteration with just a log entry. I have read all the references listed in these posts. All of which never answer my question. Yet the majority of the respondents on this thread insist on trying to convince me I only need a log entry when they have NO IDEA WHAT HARNESS ARRANGEMENT I am looking at. All I have asked of this group is: Are there any existing Approvals for the hooker Y shoulder harness in a PA-12. I went on to clarify that by stating I am only looking for STC's PMA's and field approval copies, OLD OR NEW. At this point only two respondents have actually understood my request and actually answered my question. I appreciate the intent of these folks but their opinion of FAA rules and Regs was not part of my question.
    "Put out my hand and touched the face of God!"
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  4. #44

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    No point in overcomplicating a simple matter.....
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  5. #45

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    Still entertaining. I really like Mike's comment: choose your mechanics wisely.

    IAs need to really study the requirements for form 337. It has four functions - major repair, major alteration using previously approved data, major alteration using an STC, and major alteration using the field approval process. It cannot be used for minor repairs and alterations.

    It is widely abused, and now nobody checks them. Five times as many feds and half as many of us, and they are too busy chasing taildraggers that get a wheel off the runway. Or abort a takeoff.
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  6. #46
    txpacer's Avatar
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    I put military style Hookers in my plane. They have TSO tags on them. That was good enough for my IA.
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  7. #47
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    "Choose your mechanics wisely" indeed. I have been thinking that through this entire discussion.

    And by the way, my 12 has Hooker shoulder harnesses up front.....
    "Always looking up"
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  8. #48

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    I have Air Force 3” belts with sewn loops on the shoulder straps in the Cubs. The Decathlon has a sleazeball TSO lap belt, backed up with a gorgeous Silver Parachute Air Force style five point with ratchets. Next time I will have Alan remove the ratchets - my days of outside loops are over! And my passengers can never figure them out.

    I am hearing a lot about OCD IAs lately. They don’t understand Cubs. One doesn’t replace the bungees annually, one hopes?

  9. #49

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    Front seat, back seat, the Cub has Hookers.

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    Front seats left and right, the Cessna has Hookers. Oh, and the rear jump seats do, too. Every lap belt I have in airplanes is Hooker.

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    And for grins, Here's Hooker's STC attach to the spar in the Cessna. A doubler is riveted on and a through bolt goes through. The adjacent doubler is for an Atlee cargo net.

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  10. #50

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    Wow, all I can say is wow! I got nothing to add, should have strapped myself in


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  11. #51
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    Quote Originally Posted by stewartb View Post
    Front seat, back seat, the Cub has Hookers.

    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	IMG_5345.JPG 
Views:	84 
Size:	195.6 KB 
ID:	42938

    Front seats left and right, the Cessna has Hookers. Oh, and the rear jump seats do, too. Every lap belt I have in airplanes is Hooker.

    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	IMG_5346.JPG 
Views:	75 
Size:	194.4 KB 
ID:	42939

    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	IMG_5349.JPG 
Views:	66 
Size:	76.2 KB 
ID:	42940

    And for grins, Here's Hooker's STC attach to the spar in the Cessna. A doubler is riveted on and a through bolt goes through. The adjacent doubler is for an Atlee cargo net.

    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	IMG_5347.JPG 
Views:	63 
Size:	234.3 KB 
ID:	42941

    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	IMG_5348.JPG 
Views:	69 
Size:	231.2 KB 
ID:	42942


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    Those are essentially what BAS designed years ago. Except BAS uses inertial reel harnesses.

    MTV

  12. #52
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    Quote Originally Posted by mvivion View Post
    Those are essentially what BAS designed years ago. Except BAS uses inertial reel harnesses.
    I have BAS inertia harnesses, and really like them.
    But I think you're giving Bud Blancher a little too much credit.
    All shoulder harnesses for the 4 place Cessnas are gonna mount in about the same location.
    Hooker's method of attachment to the spar carrythrough is quite different than the BAS mounting.
    So more difference than just the inertia reels.
    Cessna Skywagon-- accept no substitute!

  13. #53

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    "Wow, all I can say is wow! I got nothing to add, should have strapped myself in"

    ....but with what harness?


    "Choose your mechanics wisely"

    ...no kidding.
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  14. #54
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    Quote Originally Posted by hotrod180 View Post
    I have BAS inertia harnesses, and really like them.
    But I think you're giving Bud Blancher a little too much credit.
    All shoulder harnesses for the 4 place Cessnas are gonna mount in about the same location.
    Hooker's method of attachment to the spar carrythrough is quite different than the BAS mounting.
    So more difference than just the inertia reels.
    Yes, there are differences, but the basic approach of attachment with BAS and what's shown here is much stronger than the stock Cessna attachments. With this style attachment, for the harness to fail, you're going to have to take out the entire center section of the wing carry through. That's what I was referring to.

    MTV
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  15. #55

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    Quote Originally Posted by mike mcs repair View Post
    Gosh. I seem to have missed the party. He’s forgetting they change all the major/minor stuff back in 2003? Lot of stuff used to be major and now is only minor or covered by second part of 43.13 as approved data since 1998......... just cause it was the right answer doesn’t mean the FAA won’t update the rules. Life is MUCH simpler now. Choose your mechanics wisely.


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    Thanks Mike! Near as I can tell you’re never too late to the party here. Valuable insight and spot on tongue in cheek when needed most it seems!
    Choose your mechanics wisely indeed.
    Choose your IA even more wisely perhaps?

    Oz

  16. #56

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    Instead of asking the internet, have you considered calling the Hooker harness folks? Here, let me use the google machine for you so that you can spend more of your time solving the problem instead of using that time criticizing those that were trying to help.
    Hooker Custom Harness, Inc.
    324 East Stephenson St
    Freeport, Illinois 61032
    Phone- 815-233-5478
    Fax- 815-233-5479
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  17. #57

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    The Atlee Dodge X-brace STC includes welding a 3/4" .049 tube into the X for shoulder harness attachment. No reference as to what shoulder harness needs to be used that I remember.

  18. #58

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    My first question would be how bad can a shoulder harness instillation be to be worse than no shoulder harness at all? My concern is safety.

    Im thankful that Tom (Algonquin) is in my court.

  19. #59

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    Tom, if you look at AC43.13-2b, there is a diagram on the preferred angles for a shoulder harness. If the harness comes from below shoulder level, you are likely to have spinal compression issues upon impact. If the angle is to high above the shoulder, your torso may not be properly restrained in a crash and slide out of it. If the anchors aren’t sufficiently strong they can pull out. All that said, I think any upper body restraint is better than no upper body restraint. There is always the question of impact loads during an accident. Properly restrained, the human body can withstand deceleration forces in the 30-40G range with minimal damage. Depending on the certification basis of your aircraft, the structure supporting your seat and seat belt is only designed to 6, 9, 12, or 18Gs in the forward direction. If you have an impact that exceeds those, expect your seat, belts, and other stuff to come loose and now you are unrestrained.

    Basic rule of thumb, the majority of accidents result in low impact forces, so any restraint system will provide some protection. As the impact forces increase, the design of the restraint system becomes more important.


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  20. #60
    Charlie Longley's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wes K View Post
    This is worse than facebook. I have known for many years many of the seat belts and harness' can be installed as a minor alteration with just a log entry. I have read all the references listed in these posts. All of which never answer my question. Yet the majority of the respondents on this thread insist on trying to convince me I only need a log entry when they have NO IDEA WHAT HARNESS ARRANGEMENT I am looking at. All I have asked of this group is: Are there any existing Approvals for the hooker Y shoulder harness in a PA-12. I went on to clarify that by stating I am only looking for STC's PMA's and field approval copies, OLD OR NEW. At this point only two respondents have actually understood my request and actually answered my question. I appreciate the intent of these folks but their opinion of FAA rules and Regs was not part of my question.
    Life is tough wear a cup! As someone on here is fond of saying. I am an IA and several of the respondents are IA’s. Putting shoulder harnesses of any variety into a PA-12 which I’ve owned 4 of is a minor alteration. End of story.
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  21. #61
    algonquin's Avatar
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    Charlie could you see him at the old ABX.
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  22. #62
    Charlie Longley's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by algonquin View Post
    Charlie could you see him at the old ABX.
    That made me laugh! He would fit in perfectly with the new ABX.

    3 years, 6 months and 15 days until my retirement. But who’s counting.
    Last edited by Charlie Longley; 08-09-2019 at 01:30 PM.

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