Trauma and Egress Kit

[Bobskk]

I will look into the particular AED we have. Our local EAA chapter purchased a couple and we put them in a couple different planes when we go out on EAA get togethers. We always brief on who has them and on the general route of flight etc. So far we have not had to use them, but we do have a lot of older folks in the group and they seem happy to know that we have them along just in case.

I carry a pretty decent kit in my plane, truck, boat, side x side and snowmachine. At one time I had just one that I would swap around, but all to often I would forget to grab it from one mode of transport to the other. Thankfully I have not had to use it due to a major accident, however, I have used many of the items do to me or someone in my party being dumb and careless when stopped for lunch etc. A careless swing of the axe, stupidity when cutting a hot dog stick, digging razor clams, dealing with fishing lures embedded in places they should never be etc. The first aide kit is not just used for a major catastrophe where guts are hanging out and bone is sticking out of the skin. Too many are focusing on trauma where you more than likely need a priest and not a dr.

Regarding the AED, great, thank you for looking into it. I've been looking at these machines so far:

Cardiac Science G3 Plus AED
Philips Heartstart Onsite AED
Philips Heartstart FRx AED
Philips HeartStart FRx AED Aviation Package
ZOLL AED Plus AED

The second to last one listed there appears to be specific to aircraft use, although I haven't studied it enough to understand any meaningful differences.

That makes total sense on the emergency kit usage and is so true. They are so valuable and important beyond major trauma and often under appreciated. Glad to hear you've been on top of it.

Thanks again for your help!

[akavidflyer]

https://www.altramedical.com/frx-with-pelican-case/

This is the one that my brother bought for our EAA functions.

[Tennessee]

I'm a doctor. The kit below is what I came up with for my Maule. It's definitely overkill for most people, but if there is a serious injury at a campsite or elsewhere, I'd be the one taking care of it. I have also added a suture instrument kit and neck collars (2). I have a much lighter kit for my SuperCub - it has a lot of the same kind of stuff, only not as many duplicated items.

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0...?ie=UTF8&psc=1

[Bobskk]

Awesome, thanks for sharing.

[krines]

So I tried to sit back and keep my mouth shut but I just can't do it. My brother used to beat me up every day because I never learned. Let me try to defend the anesthesiologists under attack here. First off I have been through 14 years of college learning my job. I have spent 33 years taking care of trauma patients at a Level I trauma center. ( In Billings we are Level 2 but the nearest Level 1 is Denver or Salt Lake so in essence we are defacto Level 1. I take care of trauma patients every week. I have attended Trauma Morbidity and Mortality review conference with paramedics, flight nurses and surgeons on a monthly basis for the last 33 years. During my career I have 5 patients that I have transfused more than 75 units of blood that lived. The number of transfusions over 50 are too numerous to count. That means replacing all the blood in ones body from 5-8 times. I know when I have one of these cases while driving to work the next day they will be asking for volunteers for blood donation over the radio. On a couple of these cases we had to fly our plane to Denver to get more as we ran out in town. I have attended many field traumas as first on site. One interesting one was a self inflicted GSW from the base of the tongue up through the top center of the head. The police and fire arrived first with their useless first aid kits. Then the paramedics arrived who greeted me with a hey how are you doing because they knew me, I had helped with their training. Guess who intubated that one. On another MVA the EMTs arrived to find me with a 3 year old the only survivor of 3 total. The EMT tried to explain to me that they did not feel comfortable taking care of children. Hell I've done anesthesia for heart surgery on children that weigh less than 2 pounds. That is just a couple of the many times I was first on scene. Oh and for those that are not aware trauma operating rooms are hot because hypothermia kills. Remember one trauma surgeon with sweat sloshing around in the sleeves of his gown. Anesthesiologists are experts at resuscitation and oh yeah as a side light I can secure an airway. So as it goes on the internet there are some that pretend to be experts and others that actually are. I do not intend to demean any first responders in any way, we are all a team. NoFlaps I honor your service to this country if read through the lines correctly, Thanks. I just think you don't have any idea what I do on a daily basis. Hope to have a beer with you one day I am sure we could tell some stories.

[NoFlaps]

Krines,
I’ll buy the first round. You are a true master of your craft. The anesthesiologist I worked with on my last deployment was too. That guy forgot more than I’ll ever hope to learn!


Sent from my iPad using SuperCub.Org

[JohnnyR]

Aren’t you the guy who claimed, “I carry no first aid kit in my plane” (your first posting)? That’s some poor advice right there.

I realize this conversation started with trauma and egress, but there’s so much more to flying in remote areas. Having to leave a wilderness site because of minor common ailments or injuries easily treatable with a basic kit is not good personnel management.

I’ve deployed alongside SF and other ops medics for three tours, and treated folks in the backcountry as an expedition medic for 16 years, and have never come across a competent wilderness or combat leader who didn’t have equipment and/or a plan to treat minor medical issues in the field. I agree with you that major issues may not be effectively managed but that doesn’t mean we should recommend no capability otherwise.

We’re all pretty much back to basics without the fancy equipment, determining field treatable or evac. But, all of us should be able to treat minor issues right there and then to keep them from becoming major issues that require that evac or early departure.

Pardon the break. Back to the trauma discussion...

So I tried to sit back and keep my mouth shut but I just can't do it. My brother used to beat me up every day because I never learned. Let me try to defend the anesthesiologists under attack here. First off I have been through 14 years of college learning my job. I have spent 33 years taking care of trauma patients at a Level I trauma center. ( In Billings we are Level 2 but the nearest Level 1 is Denver or Salt Lake so in essence we are defacto Level 1. I take care of trauma patients every week. I have attended Trauma Morbidity and Mortality review conference with paramedics, flight nurses and surgeons on a monthly basis for the last 33 years. During my career I have 5 patients that I have transfused more than 75 units of blood that lived. The number of transfusions over 50 are too numerous to count. That means replacing all the blood in ones body from 5-8 times. I know when I have one of these cases while driving to work the next day they will be asking for volunteers for blood donation over the radio. On a couple of these cases we had to fly our plane to Denver to get more as we ran out in town. I have attended many field traumas as first on site. One interesting one was a self inflicted GSW from the base of the tongue up through the top center of the head. The police and fire arrived first with their useless first aid kits. Then the paramedics arrived who greeted me with a hey how are you doing because they knew me, I had helped with their training. Guess who intubated that one. On another MVA the EMTs arrived to find me with a 3 year old the only survivor of 3 total. The EMT tried to explain to me that they did not feel comfortable taking care of children. Hell I've done anesthesia for heart surgery on children that weigh less than 2 pounds. That is just a couple of the many times I was first on scene. Oh and for those that are not aware trauma operating rooms are hot because hypothermia kills. Remember one trauma surgeon with sweat sloshing around in the sleeves of his gown. Anesthesiologists are experts at resuscitation and oh yeah as a side light I can secure an airway. So as it goes on the internet there are some that pretend to be experts and others that actually are. I do not intend to demean any first responders in any way, we are all a team. NoFlaps I honor your service to this country if read through the lines correctly, Thanks. I just think you don't have any idea what I do on a daily basis. Hope to have a beer with you one day I am sure we could tell some stories.

[Kodiakmack]

Sorry to link to another site but...

https://backcountrypilot.org/knowled...est-philosophy

I watched this video several times and really enjoy this guy’s presentation and thoughtfulness. I made myself a vest with many of the items he recommends, adding/subtracting for my know how and locale. I used the extras to make an extra trauma/first aid kit that just lives in the airplane.
a half hour to learn how to properly prep and use a tourniquet and an Israeli bandage and I feel reasonably prepared for a somewhat serious problem. Am I ready for ANYTHING? Absolutely not. Better than nuthin’
definitely worth a watch.

[krines]

As I stated earlier I do not carry a first aid kit in my plane and that is the way I do it. After my last post you get some idea of where I come from. To all you military guys I also get it. You guys play in a war zone, I do not. The original post specifically mentions TRAUMA which I know all to well. There is also mention of carrying a needle for decompression of tension pneumothorax which is very serious business. I would only attempt that reluctantly if someone was dying before my eyes and I am well experienced in taking care of major trauma patients. Same goes for cricothyroidotomy to secure an airway. Let's not confused trauma with simple first-aid kind of things. Let me also say that simple problems can turn bad quickly. If you are out there and get say a four inch gash in your leg and you take care of it with your basic first aid kit and feel like you don't need to leave you could be making a huge mistake. Overnight you could become septic and completely incapacitated. The time to leave is now. Almost every day I see patients that have made that mistake with dire consequences. And heck we have a plane that can extract us quickly. Sepsis can only be treated with intravenous antibiotics. Finally I would like to say so there it goes communicating on the internet. NoFlap as it turns out you are one of my brothers, fighting the good fight helping others and you didn't even punch me in the nose. I should have read between the lines a little deeper as I figured you are military but I didn't get the air-conditioning shot. Now I realize you got to go to one of those warm exotic countries courtesy of Uncle Sam. You got to work in the heat while the anesthesiologist worked in the AC. Now I understand the shot and would have laughed it off all day long had I been there with you. Here's to you brother, punch me in the nose any day. Cheers

[mvivion]

Sorry to link to another site but...

https://backcountrypilot.org/knowled...est-philosophy

I watched this video several times and really enjoy this guy’s presentation and thoughtfulness. I made myself a vest with many of the items he recommends, adding/subtracting for my know how and locale. I used the extras to make an extra trauma/first aid kit that just lives in the airplane.
a half hour to learn how to properly prep and use a tourniquet and an Israeli bandage and I feel reasonably prepared for a somewhat serious problem. Am I ready for ANYTHING? Absolutely not. Better than nuthin’
definitely worth a watch.

Yow! I can just about guarantee the vast majority of pilots would not wear a vest with that much junk in it. As Greg says in the video....suit yourself on contents. But, I have seen too many vests hanging on a hook in the hangar or on the seat back of the plane because they were just too bulky or uncomfortable.

MTV

[Kodiakmack]

Yow! I can just about guarantee the vast majority of pilots would not wear a vest with that much junk in it. As Greg says in the video....suit yourself on contents. But, I have seen too many vests hanging on a hook in the hangar or on the seat back of the plane because they were just too bulky or uncomfortable.

MTV

Mike I agree, and as stated I kept it to what I felt I need. Also, I don’t wear it on every flight. Only cross country over or into inhospitable terrain far from help. Otherwise I have the kit that lives in the airplane. Could there perhaps be some overlap where I might maybe could not have everything I could want? Sure. Am I happy with my current risk exposure? Yup.

[OLDCROWE]

One thing I carry I didn’t see mentioned was a couple of israeli bandages. I also carry a Sams Splint and both Quit Clot gauze and powder, caution using the powder if it’s windy as it could get in someone’s eyes.

Being on dual anti-platelet therapy (now for life) I could bleed-out after a shave. Last week, I pinched/nicked a finger tip pretty good that wouldn’t stop bleeding after 7 minutes of pressure (and yes I set my watch timer) so while I continued pressure on it with a gauze pad under a finger I opened a tube of quick clot powder (NOTE TO ALL, take all your critical stuff out of the damn store anti-theft packaging as soon as you get it home) and having not used it on a real bleed before I pulled the saturated gauze pad off and as it started flowing again so I squirted a bit of the powder on the outside of the wound and put a bandage on it and all I can say is WOW that stuff works, the heavy cloth band-aid didn’t even spot... If you don’t carry this stuff you should.

Kirby

[JohnnyR]

Kirby-
Your points are the perfect example of why folks should conduct a pre-departure briefing when flying/hunting/fishing/adventuring together that covers not only the flight profile, weather, etc., but also particular medical circumstances that could dramatically affect outcomes.
We always cover med history, including menstruation (can bring in the bears) before taking people out into wilderness settings.

Glad you shared this. Thanks.

JR

Being on dual anti-platelet therapy (now for life) I could bleed-out after a shave. Last week, I pinched/nicked a finger tip pretty good that wouldn’t stop bleeding after 7 minutes of pressure (and yes I set my watch timer) so while I continued pressure on it with a gauze pad under a finger I opened a tube of quick clot powder (NOTE TO ALL, take all your critical stuff out of the damn store anti-theft packaging as soon as you get it home) and having not used it on a real bleed before I pulled the saturated gauze pad off and as it started flowing again so I squirted a bit of the powder on the outside of the wound and put a bandage on it and all I can say is WOW that stuff works, the heavy cloth band-aid didn’t even spot... If you don’t carry this stuff you should.

Kirby

[JP]

I overhauled my vest last fall. It was a useful exercise as it hadn't been touched in quite a few seasons. Downsized/replaced/upgraded a few things and had a good laugh about others. Especially my medical kit. Stained band aids and a couple of ace wraps....

A buddy is a former SF navy corpsman and I asked him for his input on a basic trauma kit for flying. He thought about it and gave me a basic list. Very basic stuff to deal with what I'm most likely to encounter. It all fit neatly in one pocket of my trusty old Vietnam era surplus AF survival vest. While I was at it I made up another one for snowmobiling and put it in a small molle 8 by 6. I also have a LightningX 8 by 6 in the car, which has a few more items and can also be tossed in the Cub/attached to my vest.

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0...?ie=UTF8&psc=1

[Bobskk]

Out and about again after covid isolation and more aware of medical emergencies these days. Learned about AEDs in First Aid class quite a while back, but have just started trying to find them in various locations I might visit. I suppose its time for a refresher course--I recently heard about AED use in the context of the "chain of survival".

[dgapilot]

This is the one I have, with some other stuff thrown in. https://gearbags.com/shop/stocked-ki...0USA&radius=50


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[Bobskk]

I think investing in an AED is important, as it can potentially save a life in the event of a medical emergency. Having one on airplanes is especially beneficial, as they allow passengers to receive timely and immediate care if needed. Remember to include checking your AED is onboard and ready to go with your preflght checklist.
Aircraft need FAA approved devices. Three brands I know of that are approved for aircraft (including helicopters &#128518 are:
Zoll (AED Plus Aviation package),
Defibtech (View), and
Philips (HeartStart FRx and FR3 )
When it comes to finding the best AEDs for sale, online is probably the best bet. you'll want to consider things like type of battery, size and weight, ruggedness specs, etc. There are deals on refurbished models; if you go this route make sure you are buying from a reputable source and that the machine and accessories are fully updated/refreshed.

[NunavutPA-12]

A couple of times in this thread there has been mention of "potent pain killers", which is something I'd like to add to my first aid kit. I suppose this means something a whole lot stronger than Tylenol. So my question is this: How does one go about getting some of the "potent" stuff, which is likely to be in the "restricted" category (at least in this country - Canada)?

I'm not sure what kind of reaction I would get from a doctor if I were to ask for a bunch of opioids, or even if he would be allowed to supply me with some.

Not sure of the legality of this but curious nonetheless. Perhaps it's simply a non-starter.

[JohnnyR]

Just finished a few weeks ago my wilderness medic recert for the next three years. Discussion arose about this topic of effective pain relief. None of the following is medical advice and I'm not responsible if you utilize the information:
General consensus is that aceteminophen + ibuprofen is about as effective as some opioids. Be sure to follow precautions for both medicines, particularly acetaminophen overdosage and ibuprofen GI issues. Also, ibuprofen has proven to be an effective blood thinner, so if you have a bleeder exercise caution.

Here's a study Ibuprofen Plus Acetaminophen Equals Opioid Plus Acetaminophen for Acute Severe Extremity Pain | AAFP

Ibuprofen blood thinner discussion Is ibuprofen (Advil) a blood thinner? (drugs.com)

[stewartb]

Two weeks out from yet another surgery, my perspective on OTC pain relievers vs opioids? Not even close. Hydrocodone and Oxycodone are fantastic pain killers but the danger in an outdoor survival situation would be that they make me sleepy. Same for Tramadol. That’s a fine feature in a pain reliever in the appropriate setting but not good if you’re cold and wet and alone. Make good choices.

My doctors and nurses have made it very clear that it’s important to stay ahead of pain rather than to try to respond to it. They strongly suggest taking the pain meds before the pain gets bad. It’s a very good strategy. If you get behind the pain it takes a full day to bring it under control. At least that’s been true for me. Know your body, know your meds, know your situation.

[DENNY]

Everybody has different pain tolerance and different response to pain medication. In general the older we get the more tolerant of pain we are and the more narcotic medication effects us. Stewart is spot on!! Know what works for you. We have 3 adults in the house over 65 so seems every year a new bottle of Percocet or Vicodin makes it in from some surgery. We seldom use more than a days worth but I save them for travel and the plane. Make sure if you cross the border the bottle has your name on it. For pain control without narcotic meds I usually alternate Motrin with Tylenol in 3 hour intervals. The dosage of the opioid meds in the study was rather low, so I suspect that their deffiniton of SEVERE PAIN and mine are quite different.
DENNY

[JohnnyR]

The problem posed was what can we carry in a field kit that doesn't require a prescription. I agree that everyone is different and results will probably vary considerably. What I've conveyed is worth a try for some. It's from medical professionals as told to me, plus some studies, plus my own first hand experience as a periodic expedition medic/wilderness EMT. I've successfully used the cited combo with field-reduced dislocations, post-surgical shoulder tears, post-op digit joints, gout pain and other "high level" pain maladies. Just offering it as a viable solution for those who don't have access to or don't want opioids. Be sure to follow medicine directions.

Note that there is now a one-pill combination of the two available OTC.