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Thread: Garmin 796.. OR... iPad in Air Gizmo mount in center panal ???

  1. #1
    Alex Clark's Avatar
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    Garmin 796.. OR... iPad in Air Gizmo mount in center panal ???

    My panel is still all torn apart. WireWinnie bailed me out with a new Becker radio wiring harness and a new radio coax. Now it is time to reassemble and cut off some of the remaining dead wires that were all tied up behind the old panel.

    I have two thoughts for the center panel were the radio stack used to be...

    Either a Garmin 796 in an Air Gizmo snap-in mount..... OR a ipad in the same type of mount.

    I have used lots of overpriced Garmin products over the years, but I have never used any Apple products.

    So I have no idea how nice an iPad looks with maps.
    The idea is that one day I will be able to buy a transponder that can send ADS-B info to the moving map display. After I sell my kidneys on the black market.

    Any ideas from folks who have used both?
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    Bluebear's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Alex Clark View Post
    My panel is still all torn apart. WireWinnie bailed me out with a new Becker radio wiring harness and a new radio coax. Now it is time to reassemble and cut off some of the remaining dead wires that were all tied up behind the old panel.

    I have two thoughts for the center panel were the radio stack used to be...

    Either a Garmin 796 in an Air Gizmo snap-in mount..... OR a ipad in the same type of mount.

    I have used lots of overpriced Garmin products over the years, but I have never used any Apple products.

    So I have no idea how nice an iPad looks with maps.
    The idea is that one day I will be able to buy a transponder that can send ADS-B info to the moving map display. After I sell my kidneys on the black market.

    Any ideas from folks who have used both?
    I have used ForeFlight with my iPhone extensively. It works great unless it heats up, then the screen brightness fades to unreadable until cooled off. I recently had an Aera 660 wired in with GDL 52. By report, the Aera does not suffer from overheating issues.


    Sent from my iPhone using SuperCub.Org mobile app

  3. #3
    mvivion's Avatar
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    Alex,

    The Garmin 796 has a brighter screen than the iPads do.

    Foreflight running on an IPad gives you a LOT more "tools" than a 796.

    You can use the IPad for other stuff when not in the plane.

    Foreflight or Garmin Pilot require a subscription, so to use the IPad, you're going to be paying a monthly fee.

    But, Foreflight updates are free, as are IPad updates. Garmin updates are spendy, but don't happen very often.

    The IPads do heat up, but in a panel mount, they shouldn't be in the sun, so probably okay. On my knee, I've had them shut down a few times from heat.

    There are a lot more issues, but mostly minor. To me, the IPad would win, for several reasons. It's screen brightness is good enough so that after a while I don't notice the difference.

    Depending on which flavor of IPad you buy, you may have to also buy a remote GPS to connect to it. I don't know how well an IPad works in the panel mounts. I've used mine on a knee board in several planes and never needed an external antenna. If you do buy an IPad, and don't want to use a remote GPS, make certain the IPad you purchase is a Cellular enabled one. The WiFi only IPads do NOT have an on board GPS, so they require an external GPS. Which is one more thing to go wrong, one more thing you have to have wired in or worry about battery state all the time, etc. And, of course, the cellular enabled IPads cost more.

    Foreflight is a big program, so get an IPad with at least 32 G storage, but better yet, get as much storage as you can afford.

    Finally, check in with Phil Whittemore who posts here. He's just bought a new IPad Mini 5 and is having fits with it's GPS locating. He's talking to Apple now, but it sounds like a serious glitch in this new IPad Mini.

    And, if you decide to go with the IPad, buy a Mini. At least a Mini 4.

    MTV
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    I just did a 2200 mile cross country in my Legend Cub across the American South. I really like the panel mount 796, but I carried my iPad with ForeFlight. I used the iPad for planning but not much in flight. I use ForeFlight for all of my charts for IFR in the other airplane I fly so I have it anyway. The 796 seems perfectly set up for Cub flight. It talks with my comm so I can just tap freqs on the 796 and they appear in the standby window. The terrain and tower alerts are great. It just works. My vote is the 796.

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    Gordon Misch's Avatar
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    I've been using Garmin Pilot on Samsung tablet for several years, and am happy with what it can do.

    I understand the I-pad version of Garmin Pilot is more robust than the Android, but I've never used an I-pad so can't offer personal comparison.

    One minor correction to what Mike said, there is certainly an annual subscription fee with either Garmin Pilot or Foreflight, however there is no fee for updates with Garmin Pilot.
    Gordon

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    mvivion's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gordon Misch View Post
    I've been using Garmin Pilot on Samsung tablet for several years, and am happy with what it can do.

    I understand the I-pad version of Garmin Pilot is more robust than the Android, but I've never used an I-pad so can't offer personal comparison.

    One minor correction to what Mike said, there is certainly an annual subscription fee with either Garmin Pilot or Foreflight, however there is no fee for updates with Garmin Pilot.
    Gordon,

    Good catch. What I MEANT to say was that Garmin Portable GPS updates are spendy, not to imply that the Garmin Pilot updates are. Sorry,

    MTV

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    FdxLou's Avatar
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    Lots of good info here. My experience has been that a 796 is for primary navigation and an iPad Mini with ForeFlight is for flight planning and secondary nav. YMMV.
    Lou

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    I flew a MX7-7 Maule from TX to NY . THERE IS A 430W in the plane and we had my old IPod with a bad Elf gps and my wife had her IPod that has all the modern stuf. Both have WingX and we used her IPad and the 430 all the way. Like Mike said there is a lot of information on the IPad and it's easy to use. The Garmin is OK but hard to program in flight and the updates are expensive. Both have there use but if I had to chose one it would be the IPad.
    The ADS-B is simple, UAvionix makes a wing tip unit for 1900.00 and is independent. For "in" for a few hundred dollars you can get a status, it's independent also and blue tooths to the IPad problem solved. Total install is a couple of hours and your in business. I'll be home in a month and would be happy to help install and set up a UAvionix with you.
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    When considering a Garmin box vs. an iPad? Dump Foreflight and use Garmin Pilot. The nav screen with topo looks like the Garmin picture we’re all used to. Tap a finger and switch to a chart view if that’s what you like. I wouldn’t give a nickel for a Foreflight service. I like GP way better and the decision about using an iDevice with a flight app is more about the app than the device.

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    I’ve been using FlyQ EFB on my iPad mini “Velcro panel mounted” for 9 months or so without issues in addition to a Garmin GPS. I like the FlyQ much better as you can flight plan with it, bring in weather and traffic and set it up do display a moving section with tap to view functions. I also like that I can tap to switch to satellite and / or synthetic vision so worst case if i loose the motor at night, I may have a better chance of finding a field instead of trees.

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    My panel (surface) mounted 796 rocks, exceptionally with a secondary gps input. I flight plan and use a pad for backup but given how many times I’ve had it overheat in the sun I wouldn’t trust it for my primary source.
    Remember, These are the Good old Days!

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    SteveE's Avatar
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    From time to time I mount my iPad mini on the v brace. 796 on the right and iPad on the left. To keep ipad from overheating I drape a cotton towel over the back of it. Never had a problem.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

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    Bluebear's Avatar
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    I have a ForeFlight Scout in perfect condition I’ll sell for $100.

    https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&sour...w0244H8WxbmQTJ


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    Is the real advantage of the ipad-access to cell based dataplans-available in much of Alaska? Sometimes the ADS-B information is a little slow to refresh, particularly the metars. You don't need an ipad, I just refresh AeroWeather on my phone.

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    Yes, we actually have modern conveniences like cell service, even in Homer.

    My cell service in TX is worse than in Alaska. Not kidding.
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    mvivion's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by stewartb View Post
    Yes, we actually have modern conveniences like cell service, even in Homer.

    My cell service in TX is worse than in Alaska. Not kidding.
    Says the man from Los Anchorage.... You need to get out more, Stewart.

    MTV

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    I mentioned lack of cell service with envy, not to disparage. I have nightmares about cell towers and powerlines. Being constantly "in touch" hasn't brought much happiness either.
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    Garmin 796.. OR... iPad in Air Gizmo mount in center panal ???

    Quote Originally Posted by mvivion View Post
    Says the man from Los Anchorage.... You need to get out more, Stewart.

    MTV
    I get out plenty. No live in LA anymore, either. But one of us still lives in Alaska.

    Texas is a much bigger market for satellite services that Alaska. I have satellite internet and a wifi repeater to make cell calls in my TX office, and that's a mile from the city GA airport!

    Rain in Anch this morning. Meanwhile, out my window earlier.....

    IMG_5197.JPG
    Last edited by stewartb; 04-17-2019 at 11:10 AM.

  19. #19
    hotrod180's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Alex Clark View Post
    …..I have two thoughts for the center panel were the radio stack used to be...
    Either a Garmin 796 in an Air Gizmo snap-in mount..... OR a ipad in the same type of mount.
    I have used lots of overpriced Garmin products over the years, but I have never used any Apple products. ….
    I started out in my C180 using an old 196 for navigation.
    A few years ago, I added an 8" tablet just to have a (easily kept current) digital sectional,
    but quickly transitioned to using the tablet for everything and eventually removed the 196.
    I use a 8" Samsung Tab A tablet, I see them at Costco for about $120 these days.
    And the free Avare app for Androids, works great.
    Had the tablet overheat in the sun twice-- both times when parked, never when flying.
    Nowadays I hang my ball cap over the tablet when parked in the sun to prevent that.
    The tablet has built-in GPS access, works great- no external antenna needed.
    I have the same app on my Samsung phone, also works great.
    panel 2.JPG panel 7.JPG
    Cessna Skywagon-- accept no substitute!
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  20. #20
    Alex Clark's Avatar
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    Mike, I guess they have a ipad mini 5 out these days. But air Gizmo does not list a panel dock for it. Yet...

  21. #21
    CamTom12's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Alex Clark View Post
    Mike, I guess they have a ipad mini 5 out these days. But air Gizmo does not list a panel dock for it. Yet...
    I've heard first hand reports that it fits in the mini 4 docks.

    EDIT: This might be of interest: https://backcountrypilot.org/forum/b...d-mini-5-22943

  22. #22
    mvivion's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Alex Clark View Post
    Mike, I guess they have a ipad mini 5 out these days. But air Gizmo does not list a panel dock for it. Yet...
    Alex,

    Yes, there is now an IPad Mini version 5. As I noted, Phil Whittemore, who's just up the Kenai Peninsula from you, has had fits getting his new version 5 to track via GPS. Apparently, it simply won't work in his plane. He's exchanged the first one for another, but it has the same problem. Phil is a very tech savvy guy, and he's working with Apple tech support trying to resolve the problem, but at this point, I'd hold off buying a Mini 5 for aircraft use.

    Here's a link to that forum: https://backcountrypilot.org/forum/b...d-mini-5-22943

    According to Phil's last post, Apple has duplicated the problem and are working on a fix.

    I'd hold off buying a new IPad Mini till this is worked out. Thanks for Phil for being the "tester" and having the patience to work this out.

    MTV
    Last edited by mvivion; 04-17-2019 at 01:16 PM.

  23. #23
    Bill Rusk's Avatar
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    I have the 796 in my panel but also carry and use the iPad with foreflight. I greatly prefer the 796 in Canada, just like the maps better. Also the 796 has much better terrain and contouring than foreflight which I find VERY useful in and around the mountains, like Alaska. I also like to give my Pax the iPad so they have something to follow and it gets them more involved in the flight.

    JMHO

    Bill
    Very Blessed.

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    I would not recommend spending a bunch of money modifying your panel for an iPad mount... unless you want to do it all over in a few years. The Garmin portable life span is mush longer than an iPad. People are still using their 10+year-old panel mounted 496’s. Try finding anyone still using a first generation iPad. Apple famously updates, refreshes, and outright changes the physical chassis of their tablets. Three years down the line your once-shiny new iPad mount won’t work on the latest devices.

    I’ve got a panel mounted Aera 660 and use an iPad mini on a RAM mount front-and-center on my panel.

    Best of both worlds, in my humble opinion.




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    Alex Clark's Avatar
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    I have a Garmin 500 on a ram type mount. And I have a google tablet ( Nexus 7) with sectionals and approach plates loaded into it.

    I DO NOT have enough cash left to complete the panel with a good ADS-B transponder. Which was my original goal.

    So in the next few days I will be buying a airgizmo dock of some sort as I put the panel back together. Hopefully something that will link up to a ADSB in one day.

    IF, I do not make any money this year, I will probably have to sell off my plane anyway.
    ( I have almost zero business bookings for this summer and even my guest cabin business is only 25% booked) So part of what I am doing is a thought towards resale if it comes to that.
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    skywagon8a's Avatar
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    This is a Garmin 695 portable which is permanently mounted in the panel with two screws which thread into the back of the case. It is hard wired to the plane and uses it's internal GPS antenna. Very simple and works great. I just use it for the moving map with the topo map chip. With the Garmin power chord it receives fuel flow from The EI UBG-16 and sends GPS course to the Tru-Trak DG.

    SMITHCUBPetes041.jpg
    N1PA

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    Quote Originally Posted by Alex Clark View Post
    I have a Garmin 500 on a ram type mount. And I have a google tablet ( Nexus 7) with sectionals and approach plates loaded into it.

    I DO NOT have enough cash left to complete the panel with a good ADS-B transponder. Which was my original goal.

    So in the next few days I will be buying a airgizmo dock of some sort as I put the panel back together. Hopefully something that will link up to a ADSB in one day.

    IF, I do not make any money this year, I will probably have to sell off my plane anyway.
    ( I have almost zero business bookings for this summer and even my guest cabin business is only 25% booked) So part of what I am doing is a thought towards resale if it comes to that.
    Alex,

    Your Aera 500 will display ADS-B from a GDL receiver but it needs to be hard wired to do it (simple). Or in the same footprint you can switch your Gizmo dock and GPS to a Garmin 660 and you can bluetooth the ADS-B info from the GDL. You could try to lay hands on a GDL39-3D or a newer GDL50 and improve the function of what you already have. Or for another $900 or so get the new dock and a 660. So many options. I really would recommend looking at an iPad that's running Garmin Pilot. And for a Mini you can look at a magnetic mount like a Nato Mount. I'd make sure the magnet isn't going to mess with your compass and I'd probably want to double up on the mount. A single Nato Mount works great with a plus sized iPhone. I like Velcro myself. Easy in, easy out, and rock solid where you place it.

    FWIW I have an Aera 500 in the panel with a Gizmo dock, too. I've used a mini iPad on a RAM yoke mount a fair bit. I have no issue with it there but for impromptu flights I never had my iPad with me so I removed the yoke mount and put my phone's belt carrier on the yoke with velcro and just use my iPhone. It bluetooths to my GDL so I have ADS-B and synthetic vision w/ ADHRS plus an improved topo map from what my Aera offers. And I can toggle to chart view, add all the GP overlays like weather, fuel, blah, blah, blah. For the most part I look out the window and fly.
    Last edited by stewartb; 04-17-2019 at 03:27 PM.
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  28. #28
    hotrod180's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by hotrod180 View Post
    My tablet is sitting on a litte aluminum channel ledge i made,
    held in place with velcro on the back.
    Quick, cheap, easy.
    I've since replaced it with a Ram mount,
    $30 but doesnt really work any better than the velcro.
    Cessna Skywagon-- accept no substitute!

  29. #29
    Barnstormer's Avatar
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    Alex, I’m so sorry to hear that.

    From a resale perspective I’d guess the 796 would be a better choice. When I bought my SQ2 it had a 695 and I flew it from Alaska to Texas like that (although I had my iPad Mini 3 as a back since I was more familiar with it). Once in Texas I bought an Airgizmo mount and switched them out. I prefer the iPad for a number of reasons, but I think it’s like Tritip and Ribeye, which do you prefer,

    Regarding the Airgizmo mount for an iPad Mini 5, the cases of the 4 and 5 are identical in dimension so the 5 fits perfectly.

    And Mike, thanks for the kind words.
    Phil Whittemore
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    FWIIW, the FlyQ app on the latest iPad mini has yet to overheat on me. A previous version got hot and gave bad battery life but they updated it months ago. After three hours running on its own batter I am down to 62% or so battery.

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    Alex Clark's Avatar
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    I just came back from a drive up to Kenai and Soldotna. ( wife's car needed some work done) The avionics place on Kenai field had new in box 796s for $1499. The Air Gizmo docking mount is another $200.
    The folks there also said that Garmin has announced that it is no longer going to be building 796s.

    I looked around on the internet for a used 696 or 695 and they are like hens teeth.

    Then I checked Wally World and Fred Meyers for a iPad Mini 4. NONE IN STOCK.
    The kid at Fred Meyers said they stopped carrying the iPad 4 with the cell phone ( has the GPS ) ...
    Well crap-a-roni....

  32. #32
    Alex Clark's Avatar
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    Phil it is the weirdest thing... Back when I had two person planes on floats everyone wanted me to have more room and load. Now that I have a 4 person plane, I am getting calls and e-mails from people I talked with back in 2002, who now want a float rating or fishing trip in the Cub I sold years ago and at the 2002 price.

    The local cabin rental market is being ruined by yahoos who bought up all the local slum lord apartments and converted the to Air BnB rentals. Lots of dope smoking yarn heads.

    Since I cater to working folks, I have seen a drop in bookings since they are all back at work...

  33. #33

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    Quote Originally Posted by Alex Clark View Post
    I just came back from a drive up to Kenai and Soldotna. ( wife's car needed some work done) The avionics place on Kenai field had new in box 796s for $1499. The Air Gizmo docking mount is another $200.
    The folks there also said that Garmin has announced that it is no longer going to be building 796s.

    I looked around on the internet for a used 696 or 695 and they are like hens teeth.

    Then I checked Wally World and Fred Meyers for a iPad Mini 4. NONE IN STOCK.
    The kid at Fred Meyers said they stopped carrying the iPad 4 with the cell phone ( has the GPS ) ...
    Well crap-a-roni....
    If you don’t already have or don’t want to cut a big hole in your panel just surface mount the stock Garmin clip/mount. Looks great and is rock solid and saves you $200.
    Remember, These are the Good old Days!
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    Quote Originally Posted by Alex Clark View Post
    I just came back from a drive up to Kenai and Soldotna. ( wife's car needed some work done) The avionics place on Kenai field had new in box 796s for $1499. The Air Gizmo docking mount is another $200.
    The folks there also said that Garmin has announced that it is no longer going to be building 796s.

    I looked around on the internet for a used 696 or 695 and they are like hens teeth.

    Then I checked Wally World and Fred Meyers for a iPad Mini 4. NONE IN STOCK.
    The kid at Fred Meyers said they stopped carrying the iPad 4 with the cell phone ( has the GPS ) ...
    Well crap-a-roni....
    Amazon.com. Lots of iPad minis to choose from. A 32G is more than enough for flight apps.

    FWIW, I like the whole glass panel touch screen thing when it's centered in front of me and within easy reach. Like in my Cub. I don't use it as much when it's off to the side and I have to reach for it. There are good things about a yoke mount for a Cessna.

  35. #35
    Alex Clark's Avatar
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    I can't stand having my instruments blocked. Plus I do not like having something on my yoke moving around.

    MTV was saying I need the GPS enabled model, but according to a local tech-geek I can use a Wifi Mini-4 if I have a Stratus 2(s) ( couple hundred bucks) which will feed the gps info and ADS-B-IN to the mini's screen. All of this crap is so subject to change.

    I still use a brush and cup to wipe up my shaving soap...

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    Yes, a Stratus, Stratux, GDL, Bad Elf, etc will provide GPS to a wifi iPad. ADHRS units are the best. Both the synthetic vision and the attitude indicators are useful.

    When you have all that info at your fingertips it's frustrating to not have easy access. In my case if it isn't simple and convenient I just stop using it, and that's why I still have the Aera 500 in the center and my iPhone on the yoke.
    Last edited by stewartb; 04-18-2019 at 03:06 PM.

  37. #37
    Alex Clark's Avatar
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    Bad Elf ?
    That reminds me of a couple gals I met in Belgium back in 1980..
    Now I need to go look up all this stuff. The avionics shop folks tend to only tell me about whatever they have for sale.

  38. #38
    behindpropellers's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Alex Clark View Post
    I just came back from a drive up to Kenai and Soldotna. ( wife's car needed some work done) The avionics place on Kenai field had new in box 796s for $1499. The Air Gizmo docking mount is another $200.
    The folks there also said that Garmin has announced that it is no longer going to be building 796s.

    I looked around on the internet for a used 696 or 695 and they are like hens teeth.

    Then I checked Wally World and Fred Meyers for a iPad Mini 4. NONE IN STOCK.
    The kid at Fred Meyers said they stopped carrying the iPad 4 with the cell phone ( has the GPS ) ...
    Well crap-a-roni....
    https://www.beechtalk.com/forums/vie...?f=44&t=166297

  39. #39
    Alex Clark's Avatar
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    That was sold within a few hours of posting....

    Another pilot up by Fairbanks is running a iPad 5 and so far no problems. He said he had 10 hrs on it with foreflight. I am waiting to see if he ruins into problems like Phil had.

    I need a tutorial on the Stratus vs Stratux vs Naughty Elfs stuff...

  40. #40

    Join Date
    Oct 2012
    Posts
    4,337
    Post Thanks / Like
    External GPS receiver features. GPS location, ADS-B in service, and ADHRS.

    Garmin GDL39-3D, GDL-50, Stratus 2, and some Stratux kits have ADHRS so provide the iPad with attitude information. They also have ADS-B in. I wouldn't want an external GPS without ADHRS but some guys don't use the attitude features. The GDL39 and Stratus 1 don't have ADHRS but do have ADS-B in. Other than that all the external GPS devices will provide the GPS location. Pay attention to how they're powered.

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