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Thread: Garmin 796.. OR... iPad in Air Gizmo mount in center panal ???

  1. #41
    algonquin's Avatar
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    I was working with the Avionics guy yesterday and he told me that the supplier of the touch screen equipment is no longer making them and Garmin can't find a new supplier. I don't have any idea if this is true as I'm at the turn on turn off level. Although he did confirm Garmin is discontinuing production on the 796

  2. #42

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    Quote Originally Posted by Alex Clark View Post
    That was sold within a few hours of posting....

    I need a tutorial on the Stratus vs Stratux vs Naughty Elfs stuff...
    It all depends on what information you want. If all you want is an accurate position, then an “add-on” GPS receiver is all you need. That’s what the Bad Elf is. Just a GPS receiver that gets sent to the iPad (it’s either plugged in or sent via Bluetooth). It’s a must with a WiFi only iPad, not so much with a cellular iPad. I run a WiFi only iPad because I don’t want the added expense of an additional device on my cellular data plan.

    https://ipadpilotnews.com/2018/12/ho...for-your-ipad/


    If you want to see ADS-B traffic you’ll need a Stratus, Stratux, or Garmin GDL 39/50. There are quite a few out there, some with attitude sensing chips that will allow your chosen iPad app to display a synthetic vision primary flight display. Don’t get caught up in the FIS-B, or XM weather offerings- they’re useless for us in Alaska.

    https://ipadpilotnews.com/2018/03/wh...-should-i-buy/

    ADS-B traffic works ok over the Cook Inket. I flew between Wasilla and Seldovia last week and could see traffic most of the way down and back. It’s nice to have, but not everybody shows up because not everybody has ADS-B out.



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  3. #43

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    FWIW, a cell capable iPad does not have to be cell activated in order to use the GPS.

    I can open Garmin Pilot on my iPhone or iPad at 36,000' in the back of an airliner and within a few seconds know where I am. I like the built-in GPS.
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  4. #44
    Alex Clark's Avatar
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    Wow learning a few things today.

    I NEED TO FIGURE OUT WHICH PROGRAM OR APP IS BEST FOR ME. Then I can match up the gizmo taking to the iPad.

    I have a Garmin area 500. Just need to fix the power source, since one of the previous A/C owner buggered that up.
    It works fine and has been updated.
    That will be on the far left of the panel.

    As far as a new Mini

    What I want:

    1. I want ADS-B traffic reports
    2. I want Synthetic vision
    3. I want detailed surface maps. ( I already have FAA sectionals and approach charts in a Tablet with a built in GPS. but it is limited and drops signal sometimes. ) I still carry paper charts anyway. I need good topo info.

    I do not need a fancy flight planning program or a list of the best fuel prices in America.
    I do not need anything for IFR flying. I have stripped this plane down to VFR low-level flight.

    SO which has better surface topo maps, Garmin Pilot or Foreflight?
    Last edited by Alex Clark; 04-19-2019 at 04:27 PM.

  5. #45

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    Quote Originally Posted by Alex Clark View Post
    Wow learning a few things today.

    I NEED TO FIGURE OUT WHICH PROGRAM OR APP IS BEST FOR ME. Then I can match up the gizmo taking to the iPad.

    I have a Garmin area 500. Just need to fix the power source, since one of the previous A/C owner buggered that up.
    It works fine and has been updated.
    That will be on the far left of the panel.

    As far as a new Mini

    What I want:

    1. I want ADS-B traffic reports
    2. I want Synthetic vision
    3. I want detailed surface maps. ( I already have FAA sectionals and approach charts in a Tablet with a built in GPS. but it is limited and drops signal sometimes. ) I still carry paper charts anyway. I need good topo info.

    I do not need a fancy flight planning program or a list of the best fuel prices in America.
    I do not need anything for IFR flying. I have stripped this plane down to VFR low-level flight.
    A Garmin GDL39-3D (now superceded by the GDL50) would do everything you want including feeding traffic info to your Aera 500 and bluetoothing the info to an iPad, along with all the ADHRS stuff that drives attitude instrument depictions and full motion synthetic vision. I've seen guys selling their GDL39-3Ds to upgrade to the GDL52 or other ADS-B devices. You should be able to get one for a lot less than a new GDL50. As for the app? Garmin Pilot's topo view looks like other Garmin products. That's the primary reason I prefer it. And Garmin doesn't charge extra for synthetic vision. Foreflight has a nice satellite view page but it requires a wifi connection. Not much use when flying. When you do get an iPad you can get 30 day free trials of Foreflight and GP to try them out.
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  6. #46
    mvivion's Avatar
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    Alex,

    Just get a cellular enabled IPad. That will give you onboard GPS, no need for other stuff which needs to be connected to power, etc. Keep it simple. Yes the cellular IPad costs more, but still cheaper than buying another box, providing a power connection, etc.

    Plus, more points to fail.

    keep it simple. There’s no way I’d buy a Bad Elf, etc if I’m shopping for an IPad....just buy the one with on board GPS.

    MTV
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  7. #47
    algonquin's Avatar
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    Also as a CFI you can have free wingX , easy to do. I've been using wingX for several years and no problem except they don't have Canadian coverage.

  8. #48
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    Quote Originally Posted by mvivion View Post
    Alex,

    Just get a cellular enabled IPad. That will give you onboard GPS, no need for other stuff which needs to be connected to power, etc. Keep it simple. Yes the cellular IPad costs more, but still cheaper than buying another box, providing a power connection, etc.

    Plus, more points to fail.

    keep it simple. There’s no way I’d buy a Bad Elf, etc if I’m shopping for an IPad....just buy the one with on board GPS.

    MTV
    I don’t disagree with you, except I had a cellular enabled iPad that was dropping gps signal. Even though it was an older model, when I upgraded I kept the external gps. It’s an unnoticeable step between climbing in the airplane and getting my inreach started.

    I wouldn’t be staunchly against an external gps device. But I wouldn’t *not* buy a cellular iPad which has an internal gps.

  9. #49
    Alex Clark's Avatar
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    Mike V,
    I think I need something for the ADS-B (in) traffic. The ipad will not be doing that by itself. Nor would the synthetic vision part of the program.
    If I just wanted a GPS, I already have a Garmin 500 and a 7 inch Android tablet ( same size as a Mini-4) with an internal GPS and moving maps.
    I am hooking up wires anyway.... Lots and lots of them...

  10. #50
    algonquin's Avatar
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    When I get to the shop later today I'll take a pic of the stratus in one of the planes and post it. With that and the Uavionics you have in and out and just need a screen to view the in signal.

  11. #51
    mvivion's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Alex Clark View Post
    Mike V,
    I think I need something for the ADS-B (in) traffic. The ipad will not be doing that by itself. Nor would the synthetic vision part of the program.
    If I just wanted a GPS, I already have a Garmin 500 and a 7 inch Android tablet ( same size as a Mini-4) with an internal GPS and moving maps.
    I am hooking up wires anyway.... Lots and lots of them...
    if you already have a tablet (and it’s fairly new and supported) why not mount it instead of buying an IPad? You can run Garmin Pilot on the tablet, and it’ll display traffic.

    If you need ADS-B in, you’re going to have to install something like a Stratus, or (big bucks) Garmin portable anyway. So, now you’ve got one more portable that needs power and mounting.

    So, just figure out what will do what you need, buy the stuff and wire them all up, mount them safely and go fly.

    MTV

  12. #52
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    Alex,

    Garmin Pilot is an excellent app. There used to be (and might still be) some features of the app that were only available on an Apple iDevice (not available on the Droid operating system) so you might want to check Garmin website and get clarification.

    The Garmin GDL 39 will give you ADS-B in and works with both Foreflight and Pilot and is priced similarly to Stratus.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro
    Phil Whittemore

  13. #53

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    I thought about this thread a few minutes ago. Switched from watching a movie to Garmin Pilot at 38,000’ and 577 mph and from the back of the bus not taking any action to put the iPad near a window it took 4 seconds to know where I was. Pretty cool little device.

    If I had my iPad connected to my GDL39-3D the right side of the split screen view would have attitude indication and more detailed synthetic vision just like my G3X. Not like there's much to see in central Texas. It's a great setup.

    Click image for larger version. 

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    Sent from my iPad using SuperCub.Org mobile app
    Last edited by stewartb; 04-20-2019 at 02:06 PM.

  14. #54
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    This is the cheapest stratus I've found Click image for larger version. 

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  15. #55
    Alex Clark's Avatar
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    Ooohhh... I was wondering how I would get a Stratus on top on my panel..
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Click image for larger version. 

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  16. #56
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    Click image for larger version. 

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    This is how and where I mounted a 796 in my Cessna. It doesn’t cover any other instruments and is easy to glance at for the pilot and a pax. Bluetoothed to a Garmin GDL52 for In.
    "Fast is fine, but accuracy is everything." Wyatt Earp
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  17. #57
    WWhunter's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by algonquin View Post
    This is the cheapest stratus I've found Click image for larger version. 

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    I bought a similar unit called the Merlin from Seattle Avionics that included a 10,000Mah battery, charge rwith usb cable, and a little short usb to connect the battery to the unit for $200. I am currently running it on a Samsung Galaxy Tablet with Avare.

    They occassionally put them on sale for $200.

    https://seattleavionics.com/merlin.aspx

  18. #58

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    Question for Alex and Algonquin-

    How effective do you expect ADS-B traffic to be in an airplane environment where most airplanes aren’t ADS-B out equipped and you don’t have FIS-B coverage from a tower? Are you ADS-B out equipped? Even in Anchorage we have enough non-transponder airplanes to make ADS-B less than great. Away from the FIS-B translation I don’t expect traffic to be anywhere close to a complete picture.
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  19. #59
    Alex Clark's Avatar
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    I will be ADS-B out in a few months. Just so I can go into Anchorage or for when I fly out of state.
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  20. #60

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    Land at Lake Hood. No ADS-B required. Heck, no transponder required, which is the gist of my earlier post.
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  21. #61
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    Quote Originally Posted by stewartb View Post

    If I had my iPad connected to my GDL39-3D the right side of the split screen view would have attitude indication and more detailed synthetic vision just like my G3X. Not like there's much to see in central Texas. It's a great setup.
    Stewart, I've been wondering about that. What does a G3X offer that Garmin Pilot with the appropriate inputs doesn't do?

    I'm still trying to figure out far ahead. It seems like a couple of G5s, a well set up tablet, and proper radios would be all one would need.

    Vic

  22. #62
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    Hi Stewart, all the things you bring up are real and accurate, but the government call the shots with no consideration for the general users. Sooo, yes and no on equipping all the planes with ADS_B. Most yes and the Turbine with the 1090 because we use it in the Canadian Arctic. It is expected that the Canadians will go to that as of 2021, it also has a form of Tcas. My 185 and Husky in Alaska will get UAvionex (I'm a dealer) because headed into ANC and the weather craps out you will either need ADS-B or several pens to write why you did everything on that flight wrong and needed to shoot a approach.IMHO ADS-B installed has nothing to do with safety , it's all about doing what you have to for legality. To be honest going into Lake Hood , if everybody had ADS-B by the time you figured out you had a problem ,by looking at a screen, then looked out and finding your target , then taking evasive action or just keeping your head out when Vfr , up to the user.
    Now when your out in bad VIS. Blasting thru Rainey Pass and its living up to its name ADS-B would be great if everybody had it working. But like you said that isn't going to happen so let's just keep announcing on common freq. like we do and head out looking. Sorry for my option but it is what it is.

  23. #63

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    Vic,
    My G3X has a magnetometer, a dedicated ADHRS module, WAAS GPS module, engine information system, remote comm, remote ADS-B out transponder, and auto pilot. It’s far and away a more powerful and more accurate instrument than my iPad with GP. The nav screen is similarly impressive, but it ends there.
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  24. #64

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    Tom,
    Here’s my reality these days. How many planes based at these strips do you think have ADS-B out? Not many, I assure you. I believe the concept of ADS-B traffic is good but the execution is piss poor. The aviation apps being discussed are great tools, especially with ADHRS. To get an app or app accessory for access to ADS-B “in” traffic? In remote Alaska? Not a great plan in my opinion. My only reason for commenting is to help Alex understand the equipment strengths and weaknesses.

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  25. #65
    algonquin's Avatar
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    I agree with you , I must not have gotten across what I intended. What you just posted is about what I meant, the way it's being done makes it not so good. No argument that if done right it would be good and I ,like Alex need to be able to go into Canada and class C airspace so getting the right equipment is importain. There are so many ways to go it spins your head, $2000. To $10,000 plus.

  26. #66
    mvivion's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Alex Clark View Post
    I will be ADS-B out in a few months. Just so I can go into Anchorage or for when I fly out of state.
    Why would you need ADS-B to go to ANC? Have they done away with the cutout of ANC Charlie airspace so you can’t go in and out of LHD without a transponder?

    MTV

  27. #67

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    Quote Originally Posted by algonquin View Post
    Hi Stewart, all the things you bring up are real and accurate, but the government call the shots with no consideration for the general users. Sooo, yes and no on equipping all the planes with ADS_B. Most yes and the Turbine with the 1090 because we use it in the Canadian Arctic. It is expected that the Canadians will go to that as of 2021, it also has a form of Tcas. My 185 and Husky in Alaska will get UAvionex (I'm a dealer) because headed into ANC and the weather craps out you will either need ADS-B or several pens to write why you did everything on that flight wrong and needed to shoot a approach.IMHO ADS-B installed has nothing to do with safety , it's all about doing what you have to for legality. To be honest going into Lake Hood , if everybody had ADS-B by the time you figured out you had a problem ,by looking at a screen, then looked out and finding your target , then taking evasive action or just keeping your head out when Vfr , up to the user.
    Now when your out in bad VIS. Blasting thru Rainey Pass and its living up to its name ADS-B would be great if everybody had it working. But like you said that isn't going to happen so let's just keep announcing on common freq. like we do and head out looking. Sorry for my option but it is what it is.
    It’ll be interesting to see how AIA handles exceptions to ADS-B. It doesn’t seem like no ADS-B would be a problem with a mode C txp. As it is they accommodate no txp ops with permission. Especially when Hood traffic is directed there. I don’t expect that’ll change. Time will tell.
    Last edited by stewartb; 04-22-2019 at 08:01 AM.

  28. #68
    hotrod180's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by stewartb View Post
    It’ll be interesting to see how AIA handles exceptions to ADS-B. It doesn’t seem like no ADS-B would be a problem with a mode C txp. As it is they accommodate no txp ops with permission. Especially when Hood traffic is directed there. I don’t expect that’ll change. Time will tell.
    Dunno if it's applicable to that specific area,
    but FAA has announced a policy re: non-ADSB ops inside SADSB required airspace:

    https://generalaviationnews.com/2019/04/09/faa-issues-policy-for-flying-without-ads-b-after-2020/
    Cessna Skywagon-- accept no substitute!

  29. #69

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    Quote Originally Posted by stewartb View Post
    I believe the concept of ADS-B traffic is good but the execution is piss poor.
    I believe they have shifted the burden of ATC equip costs to us users and have put in place the infrastructure for future user fees. ADS-B bad, not good.
    In addition, eventually they very well may use it for enforcement purposes. My understanding is the 978 "anonymous" mode still sends a signal so that FAA knows who you are. You may be invisible to other aircraft and to the online flight trackers, but not to the feds.
    Last edited by 180_jeff; 04-26-2019 at 12:42 PM.
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  30. #70
    Alex Clark's Avatar
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    Well yeah, The do not care about our safety as much as they simply want to keep track of us. There is a reason they mandated ADSB out , while not giving two hoots for IN.[/I]..

    I wonder how tough the Canadians are going to be if I am just cutting down the coast from Ketchikan to Washington..?

  31. #71
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    Here is the direction I went on the panel for the 180. VFR guy on skis and floats and I hate a loose ipad in the cockpit.

    ADS B out to me was a no brainer with the Uavionics Skybeacon wing tip mount. If the Canucks ever get their specs in line and it turns out I need it I will upgrade and sell the Skybeacon. For now the out is easy peasy and well under $2K installed (by me with my mechanic snickering as I tried to get the wing tip back on.

    ADS B in is with my homemade easy to assemble Stratux flight box with AHAR's. It is on my floor under my seat with power to it and antennas up on top of windshield behind visors. It talks to my iPad mini.

    For the iPad I went to the panel flush mount Guardian. https://www.aircraftspruce.com/pages...nt13-18919.php
    I was close to going to the Garmin G6 but that efis panel market is hyper technology and I am holding out for a cheaper VFR solution. I left the vacuum in for now with the though I can pull it later and go glass(ish) as I need. For now the iPad is right there and it is my primary nav 99% of the time. With ADS B in talking to it I get weather and traffic and I also load up any docs I need in there (my recipes for fish camp etc). The Guardian has an option for an extra USB power outlet and I remoted that behind the panel and run it to my Stratux under the flap handle tunnel along with antenna wires.

    Here is the panel cut and before it went for powder coating. I left a good 6 pack in there and also a LOC/GS in case I have a bad day. I pulled IFR cert on the TXP and will keep that for emergency use.

    Need to clean out the center stack of radios and freshen it a bit. I have a JPI simple engine monitor and EI FPL-5 fuel flow and totalizer and will likely stay with those for a bit. Expense and I don't like everything in one basket theory on upgrading those to single screen all in one units.

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  32. #72

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    ADS-B is a no brainer for me too, however, I reached the opposite conclusion you did.

  33. #73
    Alex Clark's Avatar
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    Paul Jackson:
    Have you compared that mount to the AirGizmo mounts? If so, are there any pros and cons between the two?

    I have not done anything for the last 9 days. I had severe pneumonia and almost cashed in my chips a few days ago.

  34. #74

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    Just saw where an outfit called MGF came out with a cooling pad for the ipad.
    John

  35. #75
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    Alex:

    I did not like the previous air gizmo mount I had for a previous Garmin and was looking for an alternative. The Guardian is very well made and my only complaint would be the wiring is a little hard to do (laugh away I am not good at making multi pin connectors and I am comfortable with that). The flush mount and finished look is what i was looking for and I have hired out the wiring.....

    To John's point there is an optional fan mount on the back available for the Guardian.

    Overall very impressed with Guardian.

    Hope you feel better Alex.

  36. #76

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    Is there a known follow on device to replace the Garmin 796?

  37. #77
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    Rumor has it that Garmin will introduce a 796 replacement in early 2020. It will most likely be thinner like the iPadMini and not have a screen bezel like the 796. Think updated 660.
    Lou1

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