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Thread: Taxiway Blocked?

  1. #81
    WhiskeyMike's Avatar
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    Hand propping doesn't need to be dangerous, though it is too often fatal. I started as the line boy at 13 propping J-3's and propped everything up through a 600HP Stearman that had no electrical system. I guess we're off subject, but there's a right and wrong way for everything, and with the internet any fool can propose swinging their leg under the prop, pushing the prop to test the brakes and so on. Still beats blocking the taxiway. Shall we talk about helicopter pilots hovering where they damage things on the ground, injures people, and create chaos. How about hovering over aerial banner set ups, so they blow the banner away while you're on final to launch it? The list goes on and on... Pray for peace.
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  2. #82
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    'Animals are great!'

    People not always so much.

    Web
    Life's tough . . . wear a cup.
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  3. #83

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    I got a complaint for overflying a helicopter at 400 feet. When I pointed out that they routinely overfly me at 100 feet I was told "that's different". Apparently the difference was the helicopter was on an inactive runway, but I was only on a taxiway.

    I have had two incidents with rotor wash - once at the fuel pump, where the Super Cub I was fueling was turned 90 degrees, and once in a SC on a taxiway where one main was lifted off the ground. When a chopper overflies me, I get a clearance to stop and set my brakes.

    Our helicopter crossing is 600' above the runway. That is exactly where a Cub is on climb out, or where a 172 is on a simulated missed approach. Fortunately, about three years ago we stressed separating fixed wing and choppers, and now the tower does so, even though apparently they are not required to do so. Lots safer now!

    Every single time I have a helicopter incident I file a NASA report.
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  4. #84
    aviationinfo's Avatar
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    Bob— back to the original problem. Maybe I missed it, but is there an explanation for towing the school airplanes out of their parking spots instead of taxiing out? Are they parked on a hill and worried about prop blast? If they’re not, then last time I checked, the breakaway thrust requirement of a C-172 parked on level pavement is about... oh... idle thrust. Why can’t they do all their prestart work in the tiedown and just taxi out when ready as is common everywhere else?
    Aviationinfo
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  5. #85

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    Good question. Their Seneca starts in the tiedown. Almost blew me over when I passed behind it a couple weeks ago. I have witnesses.

    School owner says his insurance demands that they start with nosewheel on the taxiway centerline. I would need to see that in writing.

    Things are quiet - but today they tell me Gary was blocked both on the taxiway and the ramp. Maybe he will chime in.
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  6. #86
    aviationinfo's Avatar
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    How interesting. So the “insurance demands it” seemingly doesn’t apply if the airplane is too heavy to move by hand. Hard to guess why it’s so important an issue with the 172s but not with the Seneca..
    Aviationinfo
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  7. #87
    moneyburner's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by n40ff View Post
    That's what I was taught from my first lesson. But my current CFI suggests not to buckle-up until after engine start as fire is most likely after start and egress would be easier. I do what he wants for my BFR but confess I buckle-up first otherwise.......

    That said, I was safety officer in a military flying club with a large fleet of C150's and we did have several losses from induction fires probably because of pumping throttle instead of using primer. I chalked it up to poor training. Two total losses over about 10 years/students were buckled-up and still managed egress. Several other fires with less damage. Majority were students of one CFI.

    Oh well,

    Jack

    PS. I buckle-up
    I remember reading an article a long time ago about a guy who started before strapping in, and was surprised when the throttle was stuck wide-open. Hit a hanger because he couldn't get his feet on the STOP pedals. Something like that. Same idea in a dozer; you can't operate it if you aren't in the seat; you're just along for the ride.
    Quidquid Latine dictum sit, altum videtur
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  8. #88

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    After 50 years of flying I'm still trying to get em to understand where your prop blast is going, whether you pull out of the hangar or pull up to the hangar!!! A little prop wash can make a mess of things.
    If you get lost while flying, don't try hail a cop. Pick up the first railroad you find and hug it until you get somewhere.

  9. #89
    Eddie Foy's Avatar
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    At X58, we have the misfortune of sharing a frequency with a nearby training airfield. When I am in the pattern at home field, I have to listen to "upwind", "downwind", "crosswind", "base", "final", "traffic advisories", "what is the active" (at an uncontrolled field). I sometimes turn the radio down and clear alot. And oh yes. I visited this field recently and had to follow one of these folks in his B-52 pattern. Plus, every student's voice tells me that "he ain't from around here!"

    Quote Originally Posted by txpacer View Post
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  10. #90

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    Ah, Eddie - I have a thread for you. It needs new blood. Go here:
    https://champcitabriadecathlonforums...-airports.191/
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  11. #91
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    Quote Originally Posted by Eddie Foy View Post
    ….. I have to listen to "upwind", "downwind", "crosswind", "base", "final", "traffic advisories", "what is the active" …...
    Lets not forget "clear of the active", "taxiing to parking", "at café / fuel pumps, taxiing to active", and the ever popular "overhead at 5,000 feet, northbound".
    Makes me envy the NORDO guys.
    Cessna Skywagon-- accept no substitute!
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  12. #92

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    It is the instructors' fault. A companion thread delves into callups and readbacks in controlled airspace. One of my favorites:

    Montgomery Tower, this is Cessna1234, over here ready to go, holding short, actually going straight out.

    At least she gave the local her direction - he had to ask which runway.

    Another, when the tower had to beg for direction of departure:

    Yeah, Montgomery Tower, this is Cessna 1234, we are just going to fly to the coast, then turn north for a tour of the beach before proceeding to Long Beach around the restricted area and through LA via the Coliseum route, to San Luis Obispo, Cessna 1234, still holding short.
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  13. #93
    Steve Pierce's Avatar
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    I have been hearing some 20 miles out lately, makes me want to key the kic and say "who care?".
    Steve Pierce

    Everybody is ignorant, only on different subjects.
    Will Rogers
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  14. #94
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    Had a guy come over to me at the fuel pumps asking me if I had a radio in the stearman. Said yeah, you didn’t hear me key the mic and hear wind noise? I flew a pattern and he was upset I wasn’t using the radio for his 10 mile straight in. I asked him if he had one of those things... what’s it called, most airplanes have them... oh yeah. A windshield? He looked dumbfounded. I said maybe if you flew a pattern and looked out it, you would see a giant yellow 4 wing plane flying the correct pattern. He stormed away unhappy. I fly tight patterns in the stearman. Guess that’s not for everyone


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  15. #95
    cubdriver2's Avatar
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    I get alot of joy while flying around and hear someone 50 miles away say " straight in for ........" . I will say something like " I just left that airport and there was a nordo champ with a new pilot practicing landings, "

    Glenn
    "Optimism is going after Moby Dick in a rowboat and taking the tartar sauce with you!"

  16. #96
    Steve Pierce's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by cubdriver2 View Post
    I get alot of joy while flying around and hear someone 50 miles away say " straight in for ........" . I will say something like " I just left that airport and there was a nordo champ with a new pilot practicing landings, "

    Glenn
    I hear "any traffic in the area please advise" and I key the mic and tell them there are 3 Cubs in the pattern.

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    Steve Pierce

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  17. #97

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    Quote Originally Posted by RaisedByWolves View Post
    Had a guy come over to me at the fuel pumps asking me if I had a radio in the stearman. Said yeah, you didn’t hear me key the mic and hear wind noise? I flew a pattern and he was upset I wasn’t using the radio for his 10 mile straight in. I asked him if he had one of those things... what’s it called, most airplanes have them... oh yeah. A windshield? He looked dumbfounded. I said maybe if you flew a pattern and looked out it, you would see a giant yellow 4 wing plane flying the correct pattern. He stormed away unhappy. I fly tight patterns in the stearman. Guess that’s not for everyone


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
    Thought you were used to unhappy folks stomping up to you, did you ask if he was by chance the son of an Idaho rancher?
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  18. #98

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    Quote Originally Posted by Steve Pierce View Post
    I hear "any traffic in the area please advise" and I key the mic and tell them there are 3 Cubs in the pattern.

    Sent from my Pixel 2 XL using SuperCub.Org mobile app
    Best response to that one I’ve heard was “Negative Ghost Rider, the pattern is full”
    Remember, These are the Good old Days!
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  19. #99

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    I am different. I will ask that, and I will respond. I will not call ten miles out, and I don't make mindless transmissions at airports without other traffic. My initial call is:

    "Yellow Cub four miles southwest for left traffic 25 Hemet." If nobody responds to that I assume nobody else is there, but I still look for Stearmans.
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  20. #100
    Gordon Misch's Avatar
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    Bob, same as you, except I believe it's best to precede with the airport name because at least around here, there are multiple airports on a given CTAF. If I hear a call for an airport 30 miles away, I can ignore the content. Concluding with the airport name is a tidy confirmation. I do not ask about traffic in the area though - I prefer to just listen from 5 or 10 miles out, knowing the probable runway from the AWOS.
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  21. #101
    Eddie Foy's Avatar
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    And one of them crashes alot!

    Quote Originally Posted by Steve Pierce View Post
    I hear "any traffic in the area please advise" and I key the mic and tell them there are 3 Cubs in the pattern.

    Sent from my Pixel 2 XL using SuperCub.Org mobile app
    "Put out my hand and touched the face of God!"

  22. #102

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    I often ask "anybody in the pattern at Hemet?" An answer or lack of one is semi-useful info.

    As for repeating the airport name twice, I would rather hear it once, clearly. I recall a Cub trip just south of Chicago - two of us listening on a relevant frequency. Three very busy uncontrolled airports, lots of students all making AIM-approved calls.

    We both listened carefully - we were down low where such traffic was of interest. All were native English speakers, rushing through all the AIM calls every segment, including leaving the active and taxiing to the ramp.

    We never did figure out the airport names.

    Say it once, slowly. Then folks can figure out where you are. If you are the only aircraft in the pattern, be polite and cut it back to one downwind and one short approach call.

    "Yellow Cub, left downwind 25, HHemmett!"

    Non-standard opinion.
    Last edited by bob turner; 05-05-2019 at 01:24 PM.
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  23. #103
    Eddie Foy's Avatar
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    I would rather hear the airport up front.
    "Put out my hand and touched the face of God!"
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  24. #104

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    I prefer the location name at both ends of the call, it’s an extra word or two and it makes a difference especially when the goober calling clips the half of the first word.
    Remember, These are the Good old Days!

  25. #105
    Eddie Foy's Avatar
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    "Goober" Is that an Okie redneck?


    Quote Originally Posted by OLDCROWE View Post
    I prefer the location name at both ends of the call, it’s an extra word or two and it makes a difference especially when the goober calling clips the half of the first word.
    "Put out my hand and touched the face of God!"

  26. #106

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    Is it an airpark?

  27. #107
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    In my book, it's situational, and some cases need different calls than others.

    I really like the airport name at the beginning and end when a) it's a goober on the radio, or b) when several airports share the same CTAF or runway orientation.

    Most times I'll call "Taxiing to [runway number]" because it alerts inbound traffic and lets them know the active. If a plane is inbound within five miles or so they should respond (although the traffic farther out sometimes responds, too).

    On climb out I'll announce that I'm "Off [airport name] for [airport name or direction of travel]" and may mention "Climbing to X,XXX"

    Inbound I'll typically make a call at ten miles, five miles, and entering the pattern. It would be something like "[Airport name] Navajo 10 southwest, planning overhead left traffic for [runway number]. Three calls allow for planes that are cranking up and taxiing with haste. It's probably not needed at a busy airport, but definitely helps at slower airports where people might be accustomed to cranking up, taxiing for just a moment or two, and going out on the runway without really listening to the radio.

    I add or subtract (mostly subtract) according to the situation. But I hate the "any traffic please advise" or its variants.
    Speedo
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  28. #108

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    A lot of folks hate that. I cannot figure out why. I agree that it would be better if folks just answered your initial call.

    I guess if I were flying a Navajo maybe a ten mile call would be appropriate, but in the Cub it is better to just listen until you are maybe five minutes out. Opinion.

  29. #109
    mvivion's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bob turner View Post
    I am different. I will ask that, and I will respond. I will not call ten miles out, and I don't make mindless transmissions at airports without other traffic. My initial call is:

    "Yellow Cub four miles southwest for left traffic 25 Hemet." If nobody responds to that I assume nobody else is there, but I still look for Stearmans.
    Why would anyone RESPOND to a call like that? The call is fine, but the call is to let OTHER traffic know where YOU are, not a solicitation for every one else to yak up a storm on the freq. So, if I hear a call like that, I keep my mouth shut and watch for you. That’s what an “advisory call” is intended to do...inform, not generate a bunch of tongue wagging.

    MTV

  30. #110
    skywagon8a's Avatar
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    You guys are reminding me why I like to fly floats away from airports.
    N1PA

  31. #111
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    I'm with Bob. I fly slow airplanes and make only a 5 mile call. The last fly in at KCBE some gal in a C150 started making 5 mile calls from 50 miles out.

  32. #112

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    I disagree with MTV. The unicom frequency is intended to prevent collisions. One way to efficiently use that frequency is to coordinate. Once everybody knows where everybody else is, you are safer.

    If I am in the pattern at Hemet and some person calls 4 miles out on the 45, I am going to respond:

    "Yeah, look for a yellow Cub in the pattern and a no radio Pietenpol behind."

    just me, but I shall keep on doing that, and keep hoping that others will let me know where they are when I call inbound.

  33. #113
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    You should try to get a word in on 122.8 in Texas on a sunny Sunday afternoon. "Bweeeeee traffic, Cessna bweeeeee taxiing bweeeeee any traffic bweeeeeeeeeeeeeee twenty six mile straight in."

    Less is more.
    Last edited by txpacer; 05-09-2019 at 10:20 PM.

  34. #114
    Speedo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bob turner View Post
    A lot of folks hate that. I cannot figure out why. I agree that it would be better if folks just answered your initial call.
    Consider two scenarios. If one makes the “please advise” call, then God and Everybody is prompted to respond. But if you’re planning to stay in the pattern you don’t need to hear from that guy who is five miles out. And you don’t need to hear from the two other planes in the pattern because you can see them. You can pull up to the hold short line and visually check for traffic on final, base, and downwind. If you don’t see anybody on final you can announce your intentions, make a second visual check, and depart. If someone listening thinks you’re announced intentions are going to cause a conflict, then they’re definitely going to say something, and you can change your plans accordingly. And that guy who was five miles out will know to look for you as he gets closer.

    Let’s say you’re going to depart the pattern. The planes approaching from the direction opposite your planned departure direction don’t need to let you know they are inbound because you’ll be flying away from them. You typically don’t need to know about that inbound guy who is five miles south if you’re heading north, right, because you’ll be long gone by the time he enters the pattern. So if one pulls up to the hold short line and visually checks the pattern, then announces “[airport name] traffic, Cub XYZ taking runway XX, downwind departure to the north,” the traffic that’s approaching the airport from the south won’t need to make a radio call. But if one uses the “please advise” call instead, nobody knows your intentions and therefore Everybody approaching the airport is prompted to make a call, and the frequency gets jammed up.

    I believe these are some of the reasons the AIM explicitly discourages making the “please advise” call.

    Quote Originally Posted by bob turner View Post
    I guess if I were flying a Navajo maybe a ten mile call would be appropriate, but in the Cub it is better to just listen until you are maybe five minutes out. Opinion.
    Absolutely agree. It’s definitely situational. And it’s probably why the Canadians give time to the airport instead of distance to the airport in their position reports.
    Speedo
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  35. #115
    hotrod180's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Speedo View Post
    ......If someone listening thinks you’re announced intentions are going to cause a conflict, then they’re definitely going to say something, and you can change your plans accordingly......
    In a perfect world, yes.
    But IMHO less and less people these days are staying aware of the "big picture".
    AKA situational awareness.
    The other day, I was riding with a friend, he made a "6 miles west" call.
    Just as we're entering about a 2-1/2 mile 45, we hear a "on the 45" call from someone,
    and there he is--
    perfectly set up to conflict with our entry.
    No big deal, we maneuvered a bit to compensate--
    but if he'd responded to our 6 west call it could have been coordinated a lot more smoothly.
    Seen the same thing with people doing touch-and-go's--
    in spite of others reporting on the 45 or whatever,
    they turn crosswind & then downwind at the same place as they always do and cause a conflict.
    When simply extending their upwind leg by about 30 seconds would have allowed everything to happen smoothly.
    Cessna Skywagon-- accept no substitute!
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  36. #116

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    I agree with that. The problem is we are teaching perfunctory callouts and no responses. Same in the practice areas on 122.75 - these folks do not actually hear each other - they just announce inaccurate position reports every minute or so.

    I asked an aero student who held fixed wing and helo CFIs - "so where is that guy who just reported?" - no idea.

  37. #117

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    Back to the blocked taxiway:

    No longer blocked. Landlord told the flight school to stay off the taxiway unless they were moving.

    I rarely prevail when fighting city hall - I bet a huge part of this was due to you guys helping with the rules.

  38. #118
    SJ's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bob turner View Post
    Back to the blocked taxiway:

    No longer blocked. Landlord told the flight school to stay off the taxiway unless they were moving.

    I rarely prevail when fighting city hall - I bet a huge part of this was due to you guys helping with the rules.
    Yay! That's great news, Bob!

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  39. #119
    charlie husky's Avatar
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    Glad you did not have to resort to the D9 Tug.

  40. #120
    Gordon Misch's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by charlie husky View Post
    Glad you did not have to resort to the D9 Tug.
    Or the Logan Heights diplomats.
    Gordon

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