Bushwheels vs Props.....a twist on old threads

I'm heading the opposite direction of most people and am going to fly the Cub down to Oregon and do a couple weeks in Eastern Oregon and Idaho in late July.
To make a faster trip I was thinking about swapping out the Borer prop for the stock 74/56 prop or possibly the 31's and going 8.50's. With 31's and a 43 pitch Borer I'm truing out about 90mph. With my fuel pod I can almost make KTN-BLI on a nice day down the coast if its open...and that would be my goal if I can do it. That way I can get the trip south down to possibly 2 days if all goes perfect.
I can ship the stuff down with me for free that I take off....or just fly it the way I bring it down.
My question is what are the performance gains/losses anyone has experienced doing this? No reason to invent the wheel, and I know I'm not the first person who has thought about this.

Thanks.....Brett

I don't have any answers, but thought about it myself when I flew down from AK. Will be interested in the responses. This thread might also be a good place for any other possible temporary speed mods.

md11freighter said:

I'm heading the opposite direction of most people and am going to fly the Cub down to Oregon and do a couple weeks in Eastern Oregon and Idaho in late July.
To make a faster trip I was thinking about swapping out the Borer prop for the stock 74/56 prop or possibly the 31's and going 8.50's. With 31's and a 43 pitch Borer I'm truing out about 90mph. With my fuel pod I can almost make KTN-BLI on a nice day down the coast if its open...and that would be my goal if I can do it. That way I can get the trip south down to possibly 2 days if all goes perfect.
I can ship the stuff down with me for free that I take off....or just fly it the way I bring it down.
My question is what are the performance gains/losses anyone has experienced doing this? No reason to invent the wheel, and I know I'm not the first person who has thought about this.

Thanks.....Brett

Click to expand...

Just get a Husky, problem solved.

This past winter I put on my LW2500 skis with 8” tires. I left the little tires on for a few flights after pulling the skis a couple of weeks ago. But I kept the Burl’s tail ski on. The difference in cruise speed was 4-5 mph over 31s and a Baby Bushwheel. So it would be all of 5 mph I’m sure, had I replaced the tail ski at the same time I pulled the wheel penetration skis.

I don’t remember pulling the skis before and not also changing to 31s at the same time, so this was a good comparison.

I have a Catto on an O-340 so can’t compare props and engines but drag difference should be the same.



This is was some very hard snow in January but shows the skis well. With these skis on, I’m probably a couple mph faster than 31s. Not much, but for sure a little faster.

All kidding aside Brett, having those 31's on when flying over beaches would be comforting in the event of a problem.

Kurt

I did a Denver to Ames Iowa trip, 500+ miles ea way, twice two summers ago. First time on 6x8.5 tires and second time on 35” Bushwheels. Tried to carefully track speeds at the same power settings.

Only approximately a 3 mph difference!

tedwaltman1 said:

I did a Denver to Ames Iowa trip, 500+ miles ea way, twice two summers ago. First time on 6x8.5 tires and second time on 35” Bushwheels. Tried to carefully track speeds at the same power settings.

Only approximately a 3 mph difference!

Click to expand...

That's my experience also. 8.50's, Bushwheel 26's, and Bushwheel 31's - only a couple MPH difference. I REALLY want to do a controlled comparison of the three!

Also - I covered my gear, without rear-leg fairing, expecting a noticeable improvement, and only realized about 1 MPH increase. Bummer!

In my opinion the prop change will make the greatest difference. The prop is only going to screw through so much air with each revolution. At some point it will not matter what size tires are on the plane. The prop will only pull it so fast.

tedwaltman1 said:

I did a Denver to Ames Iowa trip, 500+ miles ea way, twice two summers ago. First time on 6x8.5 tires and second time on 35” Bushwheels. Tried to carefully track speeds at the same power settings.

Only approximately a 3 mph difference!

Click to expand...

Did your fuel burn change?

When I had the 180 cub I would lose 4-5 mph putting on floats, but would burn 2-3 gallons more of fuel. The aircraft drag made the engine work harder, so more fuel for same rpm.

When I switched to HD gear on the Maule, going from covered to open gear, it cost me about 5-6 mph. 35's about the same. One day I used gorilla tape and covered the gear and gained almost 6 mph! So for the trip, even with clear tape, cover the gear!!! (The Maule blew off the tape after 5 hours, but the cub speeds it should be fine.)

I am doing the clacs now to fly to JC. What is the best way to go. Put baby tires and race quickly down? By the time I spend an hour switching tires I have made up the time with big wheels. Cubs are slower, but like said above, in an emergency- weather, engine, anything, the tires add a safety margin.

While I realize everyone wants to save time and not stop in Canada, consider this- you can land in YPR, taxi off, call can pass on the cell and take back off. Last time it took me something like 5 minutes. You can not avoid going close to Rupert and stay near land. If you do get customs, then want to stop along the way for any reason- cramps, bathroom, oil temps looking odd; just do it. Once to BFI, you will have to dance around the rose bush and hope on one foot for clearance, but well worth it.

For my purpose, I find Friday Harbor a much nicer place to check in, but don't know about fuel.

A thought of visiting some place to go fly- Once you get to eastern Oregon, you will most likely be at a higher elevation, warmer temperatures, and different terrain than you are used to; comparatively, your performance will suck. Leave the plane as you know it, do the trip. The fewer variables you add to the mix the more you will be confident in what you are doing.

My $.02- which I will pay you for when I see you some day!;-)8)

Sounds like a prop swap may be worth doing....or just go low and slow over Canada. I still have a few months to figure stuff out.


thanks guys

Very wise advice George! I didn't track fuel burn--never thought to look at that for comparison purposes. That's amazing that you gained 6mph on the tape-over-the-gear. Wow.

tedwaltman1 said:

Very wise advice George! I didn't track fuel burn--never thought to look at that for comparison purposes. That's amazing that you gained 6mph on the tape-over-the-gear. Wow.

Click to expand...

Do you still have your gas receipts? It might be fun to compare the total fuel usage for the two trips.

I used to put a 74/56 prop and 8:50s on for Montana to Alaska and haul my Borer prop and ship or borrow tires or skis. Never bothered changing anything coming back because with tailwind at some altitude I could make it from ANC to MLS in 2 days easy wx permitting. Most cubs will pick up 10mph with both of these changes I’m my experience.
Dave

Don't have the fuel receipts. Would be more "scientific" to do a say 100 mile x-c twice on same day and measure fuel burn that way. But I'm not that interested, as I suspect the differences are relatively minor (as was the airspeed difference). I'll burn a little more fuel for extra peace of mind that the big tires offer in terms of land (almost) anywhere.

aktango58 said:

….. One day I used gorilla tape and covered the gear and gained almost 6 mph! So for the trip, even with clear tape, cover the gear!!! (The Maule blew off the tape after 5 hours, but the cub speeds it should be fine.)…..
For my purpose, I find Friday Harbor a much nicer place to check in, but don't know about fuel.....

Click to expand...

Re covering the gear, maybe try using some of the saran wrap stuff that is commonly used for warpping stuff during shipping nowadays.
Re customs, I've cleared 2 or 3 times at Friday Harbor, and they were jerks every time.
I got a much better reception at Bellingham.
All this was a number of years ago, so things may be different now.

What happens when your flying cross country and have to pee? You’ll wish you had your big tires on



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RaisedByWolves said:

What happens when your flying cross country and have to pee? You’ll wish you had your big tires on

Click to expand...

I fly slow Cub but for what it's worth...
6500ft msl
Fuel burn 7.7 gph
Leaned to the same EGTs values each time. Otherwise not very scientific.

Catto 86/38 2500 rpm 84 mph
Sen 76/54. 2450 rpm. 89 mph
Sen 76/60. 2400 rpm 89 mph

The 60 was a dog on takeoff.

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DJ said:

I fly slow Cub but for what it's worth...
6500ft msl
Fuel burn 7.7 gph
Leaned to the same EGTs values each time. Otherwise not very scientific.

Catto 86/38 2500 rpm 84 mph
Sen 76/54. 2450 rpm. 89 mph
Sen 76/60. 2400 rpm 89 mph

The 60 was a dog on takeoff.

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Click to expand...

Roger that 60" pitch is doggy on T/O.
Used to always stick on 8:00x6 tires
and a 74/58 when flying my old Cruiser to lower 48 from Alaska. It always was a solid 15mph over big tires and borer prop.
When you would catch a Cub in Lake Clark pass on big tires n borer prop, they sure looked like they were tied, put puting along at 80/85 mph. As you
breezed by at 110! Lol.
Though in all fairness I realize that would never happen nowadays, as all
Cubs with super flat, long props and 35" tires seam to be reported in the 100mph range.............[emoji33]

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TurboBeaver said:

Roger that 60" pitch is doggy on T/O.
Used to always stick on 8:00x6 tires
and a 74/58 when flying my old Cruiser to lower 48 from Alaska. It always was a solid 15mph over big tires and borer prop.
When you would catch a Cub in Lake Clark pass on big tires n borer prop, they sure looked like they were tied, put puting along at 80/85 mph. As you
breezed by at 110! Lol.
Though in all fairness I realize that would never happen nowadays, as all
Cubs with super flat, long props and 35" tires seam to be reported in the 100mph range.............[emoji33]

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Click to expand...

I’ll fly next to you and show you I get 90-95 with big tires and prop


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As for covering gear. Boat shrink wrap and the tape wrap that repairs holes or slices. Easy on, with the tape, shrink it and go


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I just took my skis off last weekend and have been flying around on my 22" 8.50 smoothies. It seems like I am only 2 or 3 mph faster then when on 31" BWs? Amazing part is that it takes off shorter and climbs much better on the smaller tires.

Glenn

cubdriver2 said:

I just took my skis off last weekend and have been flying around on my 22" 8.50 smoothies. It seems like I am only 2 or 3 mph faster then when on 31" BWs? Amazing part is that it takes off shorter and climbs much better on the smaller tires.

Glenn

Click to expand...

From an old post.....
Back to propellers.

I switched a 74/50 Sensenich for a 80/42 McCauley and lost 7mph cruise and got off in 150 compared to 225 ft.........
So 7mph and 75ft....... So Pretty close to what you might expect on the 18.

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Think a Cessna 180 with 31" could be the answer.Ground nautical miles per gallon is virtually the same and seat cost per mile is less.You can still land in short distance as well?So why not.